the end of torture horror films

[dabruce16]

with the recent beating that hostel part 2 received this weekend at the box office (it was predicted to make 15 to 20 million and only made 8 million) do you guys and girls think that we are near the end of toture horror films like saw and hostel? i wonder what will happen this october when saw IV is released? will it tank or bank? what do you guys and gals think?

I personally hope that saw IV will tank. let it end. like hostel part 2 i do see saw IV bombing at the box office. thus ending the torture horro phase of horror films. i wonder what the next horror fad will be?

[BH14]

I liked saw, saw 2 and saw 3. I like the saw series much better than Hostel because I like the plot better and the clever traps. Those traps are more interesting than the Hostel torture scenes.

[Gentlemen Death]

Saw will run itself out before it gets any better. :)

Hostel....I honestly do not see any need to do anymore.....

The end of torture films.....Nah, there will always be a market for them. But I beleive after the 4th Saw:rolleyes: , comes out it will die down.....It would be nice to see some old school horror films come back....All we have to do is wait for that one movie.......

[BH14]

The hostel type gore doesnt do anything for me. I don't get gross out by that at all. Gore in general doesnt do anything for me. There isnt any suspense from those type of movies. What they really need to do is slow down with all these remakes? I already seen the originals so I know whats gonna happen already in the remakes which ruins all suspense and makes the movie so predictable.

[Gentlemen Death]

I agree that remakes should probably calm down, but in some cases, there are some that exceed the original. Ex: John Carpenter's The Thing.

I am just waiting for the day they try and remake Alien, because you know it is going to happen.....

[swiss tony]

I agree that remakes should probably calm down, but in some cases, there are some that exceed the original. Ex: John Carpenter's The Thing.

I am just waiting for the day they try and remake Alien, because you know it is going to happen.....

i doubt it. the FX are too well done. it stands up really well even now. they should stop remaking j-horror. hollywood isn't subtle or spiritual enough to do those movies. they don't produce the same atmosphere and should stick to saw, hostel, leatherface: the early years etc.

[stenchofdeath]

I think that films like Hostel tank at the box office, because there just isn't the audience for horror films anymore. Most people appear to go for the blockbusters, and it is a small minority like ourselves who will make the effort to see a film like this at the cinema. Else, if people don't hear good things about a film, then they will wait for it to go to dvd. Remembering too that going to the movies is quite expensive, compared to back in say the 80's. I think that the majority of money made for either the Saw films or the Hostel films will be from dvd hire or sales. Lets face it these aren't films that are going to appeal to everyone out there. If people want gore, they only have to watch CNN. Hostel 2 has an "R" rating here (18 years and over), so there are going to be alot of teenagers who are only going to be able to see this once the dvd is out.

[stenchofdeath]

To answer the question, i don't think that this is the death of torture films. There is still the Hannibal Lecter series, and torture movies can just go directly to dvd for the interested viewer. If there is going to be a new fad, then it is the re-making of Japanese horror films with bigger budgets for effects etc.

[Roderick Usher]

Hostel 2 didn't win the weekend...big deal. The film was made for rather cheap. The reason it didn't take off is that it's the summer blockbuster season. There are simply too many films out there for a horror movie to take off.

If it had come out in October, it would be a hit.

Saw IV has owned Halloween weekend for years and will continue to do so.

[Gentlemen Death]

Hostel 2 didn't win the weekend...big deal. The film was made for rather cheap. The reason it didn't take off is that it's the summer blockbuster season. There are simply too many films out there for a horror movie to take off.

If it had come out in October, it would be a hit.

Saw IV has owned Halloween weekend for years and will continue to do so.

It has owned the Halloween weekend because the companies have failed to produce a good horror movies to come out that weekend for tha past couple of years....And it is Halloween, you want to see a horror film, and the only choice you have is Saw.....

But this Ocotber I have really looking forward to 30 Days Of Night.....That will be much better then Saw, I know it...

[Roderick Usher]

It has owned the Halloween weekend because the companies have failed to produce a good horror movies to come out that weekend for tha past couple of years....And it is Halloween, you want to see a horror film, and the only choice you have is Saw.....

But this Ocotber I have really looking forward to 30 Days Of Night.....That will be much better then Saw, I know it...

True. 30 Days of Night looks awesome and I hope it makes a ton.

But don't count Saw IV out. The reason no one puts out competing material on Halloween weekend, for fear of being crushed by the Saw movie. Each Saw has had a bigger opening than the previous one, it hasn't peaked (financially) yet.

So until the Saw franchise peters out...which should be this time out, Halloween will be owned by the franchise.

[the_real_linda]

lol i just noticed that today with the release date of halloween which at first i shouted at the computer about...........that its halloween and it should come out on halloween then i thought they may be scared because of saw 4......still think they should go head to head

id totally go see both of them in the same day

[Gentlemen Death]

You would think Halloween would win over Saw 4....but there has been dissapointments in the past......

My main problem with the Saw franchise is that there releasing them way to quick. I mean, aviously they are doin ok, but I just felt that if they took more then a year to come up with an idea and a good script, and not have been rushing it for the past 4 years, that it would be a decent series......

[dabruce16]

that is what is so stupid about the saw series, they keep pushing them out year after year and they are all the same. they need new ideas and need more time. after this saw bombs i don't expect many more.

and stenchofdeath when you say that torture horror films will never die because of the hannibal lector series you should realize that the last hannibal lector film bombed at the box office. nobody went to see that piece of shit.

Roderick Usher, i know hostel 2 cost very little to make and that it almost made it's money back during its first weekend, but it failed to make what everyone was hoping for. sure lionsgate and eli roth are going to say they are happy, but fuck that, you know they are pissed and dissapointed. the first hostel i believe was released in march of last year. that made some pretty decent money. the reason this hostel part 2 was released during the summer was because lionsgate thought since the first hostel made a killing this one should fair pretty decent during the summer. they were wrong.

it kinda amazes me on how most of you guys and girls think that the saw series is so great. but when it comes to remakes most of you shit on them. isn't that was the saw series is. isn't that what all sequels are. seriously, hostel part 2 needed new ideas. the last two saws have been the same as teh first one. somebody needs to solve a puzzle and you won't die. its because of you all that hollywood is feeding us this unoriginal shit as all the original movies in this world are getting shat on. originality is what this genre needs to survive. not another fucking saw film.

[Gentlemen Death]

I agree %100 that there should be no more Saw movies, but aviously there is an audience for it.....I feel the exact same way you do about the films, but I am sure there are films I like that others down right loath (Eyes Wide Shut, comes to mind) so I shall try and not to knock on them about it.....But I understand where you are coming from....:cool:

[MisterSadistro]

Does anyboy notice that maybe 'Hostel 2' didn't do well because it's practically a remake of the first one, which was neither scary, suspenseful nor characters that anybody cared about ? It was like taking all the nudity of a 'Porkys' movie for the first half spliced with torture scenes from a 'Guinea Pig' movie for the second half.
No, the torture movie isn't dead. Hopefully the career of Eli Roth as a director is though :D
CK

[stenchofdeath]

I read in the paper that movies like Hostel have a new name for their type of film they are classified as "Torture Porn". If that is the case, then it is amazing that the movie made it past the censors. Anyway sex and horror isn't anything new, there were plenty of films in the 80's that combined the two. What about "Vampyres" and the old Hammer horror movies. Saw is heading the way of becoming nothing more than a franchise in which to make money like the Halloween movies. I honestly hope that they don't go past 6.

[massacre man]

Why are a bunch of people talking about "R Horror films are dying!" and "Torture films are coming to an end!" it's one fucking movie, one really boring fucking movie at that.

[Doc Faustus]

Torture horror like all genres is perpetually faced with two choices: evolve or die. I would like to see the first one happen because Phibes and Coffin Joe and the progenitors of the genre showed us a really good time, one that I don't feel has been replicated yet. With all of its existentialist flourish and grimy realism, Saw took away the carnivalization and the carnivalization of torture is what makes it interesting. The ability to have a fun world where people are having their blood siphoned out and locusts eat people's flesh was something great, something that made torture horror really seem like it could be a lot of fun. No fun, no progress. Cool traps are great. Bond writers and Dungeonmasters (both the pencil and roleplaying and BDSM kinds) all agree, but they can't make a D+ movie into a masterpiece, it takes a sincere and thorough sense of fun and irreverence to do that.

[undeadbob]

if all the movies are essentially going to be the same then what's the point. I don't think it's the end, just the end of the same old

[crabapple]

Just speaking for myself, this "torture horror" thing is a very dull and unimaginative mindset ....it aspires to meaningfulness but it's empty.

[swiss tony]

Just speaking for myself, this "torture horror" thing is a very dull and unimaginative mindset ....it aspires to meaningfulness but it's empty.

agreed, how many ways can a director create a vehicle for strapping someone down and gettin' all medieval? it's all very samey. at least the slasher type movies took over 40 years to get boring and even then it still turns out the odd beauty.

[KingKrueger]

I Love the Saw films so far, although at 4, i can see it get very boring. I Haven't seen Hostel 1 or 2, so i can not comment on them!

I Would REALLY love to see a new slasher movie with a brand new and original villain, actual suspense and scares! Although i like the Saw series, it doesn't scare me in the slightest.

I (as you can see) love the NoES series but i dont like how Freddy became a comedian after Dream Warriors. We need a villain whos gonna be evil throughout, NoES Pt 1 was amazingly good, no laughs there and actual suspense and scares - love it!

Toby.

[AmericanManiac]

I like these films for the shock value, although very dissapointed in Hostel 2 (went to see it lastnight). I feel that that these films, bring the realness of reality. I was really looking forward to Hostel 2, as I am a Big Eli Roth fan, and was let down huge. The ending he kept talking about, I did get a chuckle out of it, does that make me sick? The saw franchise although the concept was pretty much the same, they had different twists on the endings.
They used to push out a Halloween movie every year as well, I think the 3 or fourth was the last, we all know what 3 was. Lionsgate has already stated as long as these films are sucessfull at the box office, they will continue to push these out every year.

[novakru]

Just speaking for myself, this "torture horror" thing is a very dull and unimaginative mindset ....it aspires to meaningfulness but it's empty.

Absolutely!
Also, I want to be scared in the best way, not hiding my eyes cause a scene is just gross.
You know... hairs raised at the back of my neck, jolts of adrenaline snaking through my veins, almost pee my pants scared:cool:

[crabapple]

Well, the sadism, you know. This whole "torture" thing, seeing some character at another character's mercy, being mutilated, whatever. Boring, distasteful, and ALSO, it is the realm of the talentless. Get some ideas, folks!

[_____V_____]

Some interesting reading from IGN :-

Eli Roth's Hostel: Part II opened last month to disappointing box office returns (it has only scored around $17 million domestically to date as opposed to the first film's $47 million total U.S. take). Roth recently announced on his blog that his planned adaptation of the Stephen King story Cell has been postponed, though it is unclear if the disappointing ticket receipts for the Hostel sequel had anything to do with this or not (Roth also has railed against the piracy that the film suffered from prior to its opening, attributing that as a contributing factor to the sequel's diminished box office). Some have speculated that the Hostel sequel's lukewarm reception indicates the beginning of the end of the cycle of torture porn, that the public has grown weary for the time being of dangling dead girls and bear-traps on the head. Not everyone is so sure, however.

"I just think that summer is tough, man," says Saw producer Oren Koules of Hostel: Part II's June release date. The Saw films have always come out around Halloween, he notes, in the far less hazardous post-summer season. "We've always been like, 'Keep our little fall for us.' Coming out in summer, I don't know which week of Pirates it was, which week of Knocked Up it was [that Hostel: Part II came out]. You've got zillions of people going to those. We don't mess with that stuff. We're in our little fall quiet zone. Put out a couple of Academy movies and leave us alone! Halloween used to be a dead weekend. If you look traditionally, Halloween was not a good weekend. And we have a bunch of these Halloween weekends by default."

At any rate, Roth is quick to sing the praises of his fellow torture horror filmmakers. He sees them as a cut above many of the writers and directors of the past who have worked in the horror genre specifically with the intention of using it to go on to presumably bigger and better things, with little regard for the films they were making to achieve that end goal.

"Guys like Rob Zombie, Neil Marshall who did The Descent, James Wan and Leigh Whannell with Saw, Darren Lynn Bousman, and Alex Aja with Hills Have Eyes… Every film they make, they want to make a classic," Roth says of his peers. "It used to be directors would step in to the genre and use it as a stepping stone and go on to something else and didn't really care about it, but we care so passionately about these movies that we want to have smarter ideas, smart horror with real resonating themes that are very real to people, that are very carefully thought out. We are using horror films as vehicles. I like to use them the way the '70s guys did as vehicles of social commentary. You can watch them on one level as a blood and guts movie and you can watch it again and go, 'Oh, yeah, I never realized that.'"

An admirable goal for any filmmaker, certainly. But when horror films and other forms of mass media continue to get blamed by some groups for tragedies like the recent Virginia Tech massacre, one can't help but wonder — is there any validity to such claims? Is the intense depravity of torture porn somehow connected to such real-life acts of violence? Can we really blame all our woes on Oldboy and his friends?

Bob Waliszewski, Director of Focus on the Family's entertainment publication Plugged In, does see these films as having an adverse effect on young people, but he also believes that it is the adults in these children's lives who are not properly keeping them away from such material. He cites the following quote from a Plugged In review of Saw:

"In all honesty, Saw's perverse pictures weren't the most disturbing things I saw while reviewing it. It was disconcerting enough to sit through a theater full of mothers with their 8-year-old boys in tow and groups of 12-year-old girls chaperoned by solitary adults. It was nearly intolerable to witness them, kids and adults, applauding when a man on screen got his brains bashed in, and laughing when Lawrence sobbed helplessly on the cell phone while his wife and daughter struggled at gunpoint with their kidnapper."

"Why is it that a reviewer … can go see this film and point out the gruesome torture and point out how it was so awful, and at the same time there's people bringing their 8 year olds, there's fathers bringing their 12 year olds who aren't just grimacing? They're laughing at scenes," asks Waliszewski. "This probably happened to some degree in the last batch of horror films we had, the Friday the 13th, the Freddy vs. Jason kind of stuff. And now those parents are saying, 'Oh, I kind of enjoyed that!' And then they're bringing their little kids in with them. What is the possible effect on an 8-year-old boy who's just watched the gruesome dismemberment and the brutal sexuality and a combination of the two onscreen, as he grows up into adulthood? It can't be pleasant."

One thing is certain when it comes to this particular debate: The ante has been upped on the depiction of violence nowadays when the real deal is only a couple of mouse clicks away via video sites like YouTube and, for the more curious, specific websites that deal in the genuine article. Even television has taken the grisly stuff to unprecedented levels.

Roth notes that the TV series 24 has essentially run very similar imagery to that seen in the first Hostel, in particular a bit involving, he says, "People taking power drills and drilling it into someone's shoulder. Literally." The result, according to Roth, is that filmmakers have to then top that.

"So when you go to the cinema it needs to be a more exaggerated version of that because otherwise [the viewers] go, 'I can just see that on TV,'" he says.

The director also points out that real-life images of violence have been available to the public in the past, but that after the Vietnam War the U.S. government attempted to keep a lid on such footage. Inevitably, though, the age of the Internet has proven that nothing can be kept quiet for too long.

"People say we lost Vietnam because of the television campaign," he continues. "With a film like Hostel, they want to see something that's harder and they need to see something that's more violent than the images they're seeing on [the news]."

The studio which has been such a driving force behind torture porn, Lionsgate, stands at a crossroads now. With Hostel: Part II underperforming and Saw IV on the way in October, the folks at Lionsgate clearly must be on edge. The genre has treated them very well up until now, but where do they go from here if Saw IV receives the same reception as the Hostel sequel? The studio's executives declined to be interviewed for this story.

But even if box office continues to flail for these films, the wave will continue for a while longer still. After Dark Films releases its Elisha Cuthbert torture exercise Captivity today, and other films are in the pipeline around town too. And no matter how gory CSI gets, or how commonplace the genuine article becomes via the Internet, it seems certain that there's no turning back from here for horror films, whether they're of the torture variety or not.

"People have actually argued for a long time that we've reached this threshold or something and that eventually we're just going to be numbed to any sort of violence we see," says Jennifer Ashlock, a professor of sociology at the College of Notre Dame. "I think the jury is still out on that. There's a lot of hysteria about it and that's why I'm turned off of it. One reason I can say that that's not really happening is because what scares us always changes over time."

And in all likelihood, we're never going to stop being scared, either.