Calling All Goths

[novakru]

I was a goth for awhile when I was younger.
I was the 'dressed all in black, weird hair, listened to Bauhaus' type.
But that was a million years ago, and I barely remember or at least try to forget that period of time.

My 7 year just found out I was goth and can't get over it but wants to 'listen in' so to speak to the lifestyle.
She just bought her first pair of skull earrings and is very pleased with herself.:)

What websites and music would you neo goths recommend for me to check out for her?
Please take into consideration she is SEVEN.:D

[mordrid]

The Sisters of Mercy is something I let my 7 yrs olds listen to. Same with Voltaire. Website wise, keep her away from them.

[Dante'sInferno]

I was a goth for awhile when I was younger.
I was the 'dressed all in black, weird hair, listened to Bauhaus' type.
But that was a million years ago, and I barely remember or at least try to forget that period of time.

My 7 year just found out I was goth and can't get over it but wants to 'listen in' so to speak to the lifestyle.
She just bought her first pair of skull earrings and is very pleased with herself.:)

What websites and music would you neo goths recommend for me to check out for her?
Please take into consideration she is SEVEN.:DBlack Fuckin' Sabbath.The godfathers of heavy metal.

[Roderick Usher]

As a dad, I gotta say teach her the classics. She'll find the new stuff on her own or through friends, but if she is taught about Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy, Joy Division, Souxsie and the Banshees, The Cure, even early Nine Inch Nails.

That way, she'll know the genre inside-out and easily identify how these bands influenced the contemporary scene.

I did the same thing with Glam, Metal, Punk, and Rockabilly with my two boys and they're amazing music historians at the tender ages of 10 and 4 years old.

[bloody_ribcut]

...and if she wants to venture into goth rap, i recomend a friend of mine.
Dj Shy 1

some of his music is here
www.myspace.com/shyone
its good stuff, not cussword after cussword.
i dont know if there is a goth website suitable for a child.

[mordrid]

As a dad, I gotta say teach her the classics. She'll find the new stuff on her own or through friends, but if she is taught about Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy, Joy Division, Souxsie and the Banshees, The Cure, even early Nine Inch Nails.

That way, she'll know the genre inside-out and easily identify how these bands influenced the contemporary scene.

I did the same thing with Glam, Metal, Punk, and Rockabilly with my two boys and they're amazing music historians at the tender ages of 10 and 4 years old.

I think Bauhaus is a bit too dark and gloomy at times for one that age. I am ashamed I forgot to mention the Cure and Joy Division. Souxsie and the Banshees I think is a band to wait til about 10 or 12 though.

[novakru]

Great stuff, thanks guys.

I have most of what's been mentioned here so I guess it's just a matter of scanning for cuss words:D

[mordrid]

All the bands Rodd and I mentioned are profanity free. I cant speak for what Gus suggested.

[Wensday13]

...and if she wants to venture into goth rap, i recomend a friend of mine.
Dj Shy 1

some of his music is here
www.myspace.com/shyone
its good stuff, not cussword after cussword.
i dont know if there is a goth website suitable for a child.



Didnt he work with Cap 1 of Simken Heights on some stuff? Been a while since Ive listend to horrorcore. Might be mistaken.


So far as goth rock.
HIM, AFI, and Type O Negative are all pretty good bands.
Nightwish and Evemaster are also good. Little more metal than you might want for a seven year old though.

[VampiricClown]

..................

[bloody_ribcut]

Didnt he work with Cap 1 of Simken Heights on some stuff? Been a while since Ive listend to horrorcore. Might be mistaken.

i have no idea.

[stubbornforgey]

I have a 14 yr old emo goth daughter on my hands right now..
Apart from collecting every damn dead doll out there..her music
is just as morbid.
Her room is blacked out..according to her.'like her soul' :rolleyes:
This all started at a young age..but i left her..thinking it was just a phase
she was going through...at the start..tearing her away from this is like pulling teeth with no pain killers.
However..she is responsible ..and i treat her as an individual..as this is her
choice.
If this is what your little girl wants to experiment with ..then good on her
and good on you for supporting her.
Just keep a close eye on your mascara and other black make up. :p

[bloody_ribcut]

and may i add, look out for depression. goth is depressing.

[darkmoon]

Since alot of the things I was going to mention were already covered...try Within Temptation.

Websites:maybe websites where she can find fun stuff for her hair and such.
http://www.myhairaddiction.com/index.html

http://www.mauditemode.com/frameset/frameset.htm

[novakru]

Very cool, TYVM everyone, much appreciated:cool:

[Shazbut]

I think Bauhaus is a bit too dark and gloomy at times for one that age. I am ashamed I forgot to mention the Cure and Joy Division. Souxsie and the Banshees I think is a band to wait til about 10 or 12 though.

oh, definitely The Cure and Joy Division and dont forget The Psychedelic Furs!

Oh boy, the memories are flooding back! :D

[Shazbut]

Since alot of the things I was going to mention were already covered...try Within Temptation.

Websites:maybe websites where she can find fun stuff for her hair and such.
http://www.myhairaddiction.com/index.html

http://www.mauditemode.com/frameset/frameset.htm

Here's a little gem of a site for kiddies:

http://www.kidzworld.com/article/4095-get-the-goods-on-goth-style

[Jacob Singer]

Good Goth music, just the fuckin' calsics:
-The Sisters of Mercy (just until Floodland .... Vision thing sucks!!)
-Bauhaus.
-Fields of the Nephilim
-Faith and the muse
-Christian Death (I can't remember the name of their other boss, not Valor Kahn albums)
-Death Can dance
-Joy division
-the Cure (not goth, more poppies, but great)

[Phalanx]

Please take into consideration she is SEVEN
Done.

Kids of seven wouldn't perceive "lifestyle" from photos, I don't care how intelligent or perceptive they supposedly are. Aside from the "look", you're pushing the idea and perception based on your own.
Perhaps they just thought the clothes were interesting and thought about getting some...I'm really surprised at the amount of parents up in here that think it's all good to get a kid of that age to adopt any popular "culture" based identity...
"You have to listen to this to be like this?" C'mon...I'm surprised the supposed "real" goth here hasn't slapped that one down yet...trying to make her a goth, or a poser?
You wanna see if your kid is REALLY into it? Place 20 cds in front of her, some "goth" some pop, rock, rap, whatever...burnt, no covers...get her to listen to them...if she actually PICKS said music for herself, then maybe lean towards gentle encouragement. 'til then I'd suggest letting her largely make her own decisions...I mean, the clothes aside...a seven year old GOTH?
Sure...I see HEAPS of those whos parents aren't trying to push them into what they thought THEY should have been. :rolleyes:
Just like the kids parents throw into their own favourite teams jerseys, before they're even old enough to play sports...But it's all good, I'm sure a lot of parents don't even realise they're doing it.
I mean, they still DO have PTA's at most schools, right? y'ask me, you're inviting a lot of friction for yourself and kid, with how negatively the goth culture is perceived by the majority, ignorantly or otherwise, then you'll cry "discrimination!" even though you probably realise what you've done is really a little stupid.
Enough of this.
This thread tells me why people should wait to get their heads together before dropping kids.

You don't have to reply to defend yourself, I know I'm right...your poor choices are your own.

[VampiricClown]

and may i add, look out for depression. goth is depressing.

Not really. Goth isn't what's depressing, that is only how it is shown to most of the close minded public. Have you ever even been to a goth club or were actually "goth". Judging from your posts, I'd think not.

EMO kids are the ones that are depressed and they 98% of the time say they are "goth".

Gothic people find more enjoyment from being friendly and or scaring the crap out of people, not really depression.

@Phalanx

That's actually a really good idea with the multiple music styles on burnt CD's.

[Phalanx]

Glad you agree...I figured you wouldn't go on the warpath...
My only points made here are largely based on my (I'd like to think) realistic perception regarding lifestyle choices, and the kind've age one is at before they can and should be able to make such decisions on their own, and that crap I've seen/heard out of a lot of people.
Judgement in spades.
I like to think that I was being pretty realistic, even though I gather some people will not appreciate it, but hey...me shutting up won't destroy possibility of inevitable issues rising, eh?
Anyhows, that's all.
Just wanted to say I appreciate your mature, unbiased outlook.

[mordrid]

Phalanx, guess what, if a child finds an interest, they will explore it. Whether they are seven or seventeen. It is best to help guide and keep the child out of the ugly side of things. The fact Nova is trying to find things SUITABLE for her child and show an interest in what she does says a lot about her. You cannot keep a child in a closet.

You don't have to reply to defend yourself, I know I'm right.

[stubbornforgey]

Not really. Goth isn't what's depressing, that is only how it is shown to most of the close minded public. Have you ever even been to a goth club or were actually "goth". Judging from your posts, I'd think not.

EMO kids are the ones that are depressed and they 98% of the time say they are "goth".

Gothic people find more enjoyment from being friendly and or scaring the crap out of people, not really depression.

@Phalanx

That's actually a really good idea with the multiple music styles on burnt CD's.

very good idea..
:o
my so called staunch Goth kid still listens to ABBA

[Phalanx]

Phalanx, guess what, if a child finds an interest, they will explore it. Whether they are seven or seventeen. It is best to help guide and keep the child out of the ugly side of things. The fact Nova is trying to find things SUITABLE for her child and show an interest in what she does says a lot about her. You cannot keep a child in a closet.


That's the line is it? You're "keeping a child in a closet" if you're not encouraging them towards something that they ARE too early in life to really make a fully informed decision about?
I suppose if a kid were to start torturing small animals then the parent shouldn't intervene and just let it run it'd course, eh? Let them explore that interest?
Not saying it's remotely the same thing, but there are certain things that parents, as just that PARENTS shouldn't lead their kid down the garden path about. Things that may not even be "bad", or "wrong" (such as the goth culture), but due to negativity others put on it, could effect your child in a bad way...not to mention cause issues for the family involved.
Maybe a smart idea would be a frank discussion at an age where they can understand judgement and prejudice, and the kind've shit they'll recieve from (and you know this) 75%+ of people out there? the kinds've people who call horror fans sick, and those that wear black at all "freaks"? This here is my main issue...a child of that age shouldn't have to have that shit brought into their life, and if you say that it wouldn't be, or it's not an issue...you're lying to whoever you're trying to convince, and you know it.
The negative perception of goth culture isn't something I personally share, but I'm smart enough (not that it takes more'n a set of eye's and ears) to realise it's out there...and if I had a kid myself that wanted to dress in certain clothers...etc...sure, but no, I wouldn't allow for them to wear the clothes and apparrel out of the house all the time...I wouldn't allow it to become their standard, nor would I push the related music/movie/attitude/poetry...etc upon them until they were ready to explore it themselves...if you think a 7 year old kid saw some photos of goths, and immediately thought "hey now...what music are they into? what's their culture and lifestyle like" and actually thought about anything beyond the visual aspects, then I'd suggest checking into reality. To have a kid of 7 embrace more than just the clothes/apparel at so early an age is just irresponsible, and shows very little regard for the emotional development of a child...their self image will change in their formative years on the basis of where most kids get the majority of their input, other people.
Teach your kid about all that in an unbiased manner, THEN let them explore on their own at a suitable age, while keeping a watchful eye. That? That's the guidance you refer to. Not, aw, they like it, fuck it, better let 'em just have their way...(or, in my opinion, the parents way)
What "trouble" would a child come across if they were allowed to dress in the things they saw in these photos? Not much, right? This person is talking about checking music to suit, and for fucks sake, websites? C'mon if ever that's an invitation...not to mention the inevitable aforementioned negative input. If you seriously think a child is beyond emotional scarring by being told "not to listen to the nasty people", then a lot of things have been sugar coated for you, haven't they?

You don't have to reply to defend yourself, I know I'm right.
Kudos on emulation of the legend there, champ;)
I like it.
I think I'll go ahead and cancel my subs. to this thread though...seems it could be leaning towards an argument I have no time for.
Have a good 'un.

[stubbornforgey]

I agree on everything you say cheebs..
I think in most cases parents tend to turn a blind eye towards what thier kids
are up to..or..they can see but want thier kid to explore..which leads to more trouble than expected..or worst still [as in my case]..give in to thier kids demands.
My girl caught me at a vulnerable time ..this phase came about after we buried my younger child..so although not to be excused..i suppose if she wanted to leave home and work as a hooker at the time..i suppose i would've shown her the door...
But..i would also like to add..that if the child is given parental guidence..then there should be no real hassle..
another BUT...also as long as the child is shown that theres a good and a bad to thier chosen field.
Is 7 too young for goth..or is 7 too young to be able to choose.??
Lets put it this way..would there be any problem if the child wanted to play rugby..??or go punk..??
6 yr olds are rapping to 50 cents/many copy the sexually explixit dances portrayed in music vids and playing vid games depicting violence..watching movies depicting gang warfares.
It all comes down to ..is the parent willing to step up and tell thier kid..ok..this is way out of your league..but i can offer you another choice.
What i like about the thread starter is ..her child wants to try something new and instead of leaving it up to the her own devices or simply telling the kid 'NO'
..and no doubt will become rebellious and try anyway..to see what all the fuss is about.
This parent is helping her and will also be able to monitor not only her music but also showing her that no matter what choices you make in life..you can always depend on me..or come to me for anything..I AM APPROACHABLE.!!
which is a great thing to see .

It helps in adulthood..believe it or not. :D

[mordrid]

Did I ever say just let them have it their way. You let them look into it with a watchful eye. Did I ever say just let them dive head first in? You assume a lot. Keeping them from looking into will just lead to them doing it anyways and resenting you. If you guide them in things they show an interest in, at ANY age, is the best practice. I agree that websites is not a good idea, but music that is suitable? I guess I am scarring my children by letting them listen to my music as well as the christian music my wife listens to as well as the kids music they like. I guess I am a horrible parent for exposing my children to things, SUITABLE for their age. Damn me to hell.

[Disease]

Yeah, but I don't want to talk about it.......

[Shazbut]

...........................................
You don't have to reply to defend yourself, I know I'm right...your poor choices are your own.

It is called bigotry when someone dismisses a potential debate by labelling a response as defensive. It is also bigoted *arrogance* to assume one is right, simply because other's opinion's and/or philosophies differs from one's own.

I guess if anyone was to defend themselves, you would dismiss it as someone getting upset and defensive of your opinion - when their opinion may well be justified and significant to their own situation.

Wake up, deary :(

[stubbornforgey]

OMG...


Nobody..especially disresputes the way anyone else raises thier own children..
and the comments made from Phan makes sense or doesn't come across
offensive at all.
As parents we all have our own methods of child rearing..
as on lookers to others methods..we will always find faults or criticise...

Have you not once..looked at another parent and criticised the way thier child misbehaves..or the way thier child eats too many sweets..blah blah..etc


So please..

[mordrid]

So Stubby, it is perfectly fine for him to tear into people, but the moment we return fire, we get OMG. Great double standards. He makes his comments on his idea of parenting, we are not allowed to respond back? Oh forgot, he has been here for a long time and we are newbs. Damn my ignorance.

[stubbornforgey]

So Stubby, it is perfectly fine for him to tear into people, but the moment we return fire, we get OMG. Great double standards. He makes his comments on his idea of parenting, we are not allowed to respond back? Oh forgot, he has been here for a long time and we are newbs. Damn my ignorance.

This is probably one of the silliest remarks I have heard lately.
He is as much as anyone on this board is open to stating thier opinion..
Not everyone is going to agree with it 'granted'..but it doesn't mean older members are favoured over anyone else...
There is no personal remark or anyone named in his post..
if you find it highly offensive then fine..!!jst don't accuse me of being two faced about anything.
Does it actually say 'Morbid..your parenting skills suck'..??
puhlease!! :confused:

[Shazbut]

OMG...


Nobody..especially disresputes the way anyone else raises thier own children..
and the comments made from Phan makes sense or doesn't come across
offensive at all.
As parents we all have our own methods of child rearing..
as on lookers to others methods..we will always find faults or criticise...

Have you not once..looked at another parent and criticised the way thier child misbehaves..or the way thier child eats too many sweets..blah blah..etc


So please..

I only find anyone's opinion offensive if they dismiss others responses as *defensive" - everyone has an opinion or pov, right or wrong (depending on said pov), whatever.
I just think it was a little arrogant to be told one is right, so shut up cos it is obvious the response will be defensive as opposed to a constructive debate.

I was defending the right to an opinion without being judged as "on the defense" which could be perceived as *guilty as charged*. :rolleyes:

Did that make sense? It's getting late! :)

[novakru]

Guys, chill-it's all good.
This is just Phallichead trying to piss me off.
It's a personal jab and It won't work, I could care less:D

I am not pushing my kid into anything she doesn't show interest in.
She wants to explore music-it's nothing more than that.

You make a jab at my parenting for that *shrugs* I know my kids are great and I know I do a bang-up job with them :)


Anyway, back on subject....I am going to be listening to alot of the suggestions written here and download some for her to sample.
I already have Bauhaus, The Cure, Sisters of Mercy and NIN.
I think some of the older stuff mentioned I might have on tape, so this is going to be alot of fun cranking out the old tunes.:cool:

[stubbornforgey]

Guys, chill-it's all good.
This is just Phallichead trying to piss me off.
It's a personal jab and It won't work, I could care less:D

I am not pushing my kid into anything she doesn't show interest in.
She wants to explore music-it's nothing more than that.

You make a jab at my parenting for that *shrugs* I know my kids are great and I know I do a bang-up job with them :)


Anyway, back on subject....I am going to be listening to alot of the suggestions written here and download some for her to sample.
I already have Bauhaus, The Cure, Sisters of Mercy and NIN.
I think some of the older stuff mentioned I might have on tape, so this is going to be alot of fun cranking out the old tunes.:cool:



LOL..
try and sneak a little ABBA in too sister-boo.'

I just find it incredible how it always comes back to this
' older members opinions takes presidence over us noOb bullshit'

and for goodness sakes ppl..

Can you not read the sarcasm in the comment
thats pissing you off' :rolleyes:


'kicks the stack of boxes over'

[novakru]

LOL..
try and sneak a little ABBA in too sister-boo.'

I just find it incredible how it always comes back to this
' older members opinions takes presidence over us noOb bullshit'

and for goodness sakes ppl..

Can you not read the sarcasm in the comment
thats pissing you off' :rolleyes:


'kicks the stack of boxes over'


ABBA music will one day rule the world.
One day we will all worship in the church of ABBA:cool:

Peace, Harmony and ABBA.

[stubbornforgey]

ABBA music will one day rule the world.
One day we will all worship in the church of ABBA:cool:

Peace, Harmony and ABBA.


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!
'scratches all your ABBA cd's.


LOL.
my girl plays the ABBA greatest hits everytime she does her
homework. :rolleyes:

EM SICK TO DEATH OF WATER FUCKEN LOO'

[novakru]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!
'scratches all your ABBA cd's.


LOL.
my girl plays the ABBA greatest hits everytime she does her
homework. :rolleyes:

EM SICK TO DEATH OF WATER FUCKEN LOO'

:D

*starts to hum...daaancin queeen....*

[stubbornforgey]

:D

*starts to hum...daaancin queeen....*

'throws a pack of rotten tomatoes at ya' :p

[Phalanx]

I was about to start this post with "I apologise", but I feel that since I'd only be apologising for people taking things I've said the wrong way, it'd only be on your behalf, so...I'll just get into it.
None of my comments were intended to offend directly, just point out a very obvious issue, which many of you seem to have missed, or ignored due to my approach. Think about it...it's like ignoring valid information from a teacher, because you don't like them, no? Yes, before someone points out the obvious (which they'll no doubt see HERE, even though they're blind to it elsewhere) I am not a teacher. I use the comparison only because I'm providing information which is relevant, whether or not certain people choose to accept it.
You don't like my approach, find me offensive, arrogant, and whatever else, fine...why? Because you are the otherwise nonexistant-to-me people that dwell an internet forum, your opinion, I will not take to heart, nor will I let it stop me from calling you an ass when I think you're being one. You have the right to call me out on any points you feel are valid, and you've done so...however, if all you can do is pick on the way I come across...I wouldn't bother.
Feel free to take a page there.

My comments weren't about parenting in general, they weren't about "the culture is wrong...etc", however, they WERE about the very real bullshit a child, or anyone receives when they adopt this largely negatively perceived culture. Now, I maintain that if this child saw only photos, nothing more than the visual aspects would've registered, and any additional input or information was presented. I really doubt they asked. You don't see a photo of a car and wonder what tunes it's playing, do you? No. Hence, something that could well be a passing phase is being reinforced from an outside party, when you do this, and start letting them cruise related websites...etc...it's further reinforcement, the point I was trying to make. Is it wrong to encourage your child to explore things? Not neccessarily, but I think there's always going to be factors that someone should consider before openly endorsing something that'll potentially bring negative input to your child.
C'mon, you guys KNOW this.
Theres always people, and a lot of them, that see a person so much as dressed in predominately black, and calls them a fucking freak...there's always parents that'll look at your child and wonder "what on earth is wrong with that family!?" There's always teachers and school councellors that will make it their business to get in yours, making reports about what they perceive to be "your bad parenting" even if you're raising a perfectly normal, healthy child (regardless of what they wear and what music they listen to), and there's no wrongdoing on your part whatsoever. Not to mention the other kids. Kids, are largely insensetive little cunts, and constant teasing of anything "different" to them WILL ensue, and WILL effect a child of that age. Take it further than that, and you've got certain authorities wanting to investigate your parenting, something that could only be traumatic.
That is my main point, it's not about exposing them to the wrong thing, it's not about your parenting, it's about this...Does their interest put them in harms way? Does it invite emotional damage? Is your child old enough to be "a goth" at the cost of on the receiving end of all this bullshit, at so young an age?
I DON'T think these issues have been remotely considered, and I think they ought to be, so I have bought them to your attention.
Don't ignore reality because you don't like me personally, if you do, you're a fool - and whoever, can take that however the fuck they like.
There's no hard feelings on my part, so there may as well not be any on yours.

I only find anyone's opinion offensive if they dismiss others responses as *defensive"
Obviously. The responce and counter to offense, is defense. If you found my statement offensive, which you evidently did, then it was a fair assumption that anyone responding with a differing point of view would be on the defense...which isn't a bad thing...because I don't have to be right, in order to bring about a defensive statement. I can know I'm right, without invalidating any counterpoints, and always invite a person to respond. In this case, I said "there's no point" simply because it wouldn't be received by me, because of these issues I've indicated...they will ALWAYS be there no matter how much you'll argue how much a good idea you think it is, you cannot erase the nagative aspects, nor can you convince me that I'm personally incorrect about these issues, because I've seen it time and time again, firsthand.
I mean hey, I'm HERE defending MYself, do I think that makes me wrong? No...just trying to better explain a point to a few folks who seem to have missed it because they don't agree with my other perspectives.
Now, if you have anything else to point out aside from how horrible an asshole I am, feel free. For the record, there's a difference between keeping your child in a closet, and responsible guidance.

And no nova...what I said wasn't just to piss you off....you give yourself way too much credit. You're a person who annoyed me slightly a few years ago, and they got uppity when I pointed out you were being a bitch. Ever since, apparently everything I've ever said to you, or in your thread has been another attempt at a stab in your side. Get the fuck over yourself, yeah? It's SAD.

Stubbs...Vampiric...probably the only two people in here that have tried to understand the overall point I'm making despite the presentation. I commend you on your maturity, and stubbs, I appreciate, and understand your outlook on the issue at hand. Glad to have some people who take some time to think before they post around here;)

Again, no hard feelings folks...I can't say I think it'll happen, but I am not looking for some huge ongoing argument, and I'd prefer it if it wouldn't spill out any further. You had your points, I had mine. Differing opinions. It happens.
....and I'm out.

[stubbornforgey]

It is called bigotry when someone dismisses a potential debate by labelling a response as defensive. It is also bigoted *arrogance* to assume one is right, simply because other's opinion's and/or philosophies differs from one's own.

I guess if anyone was to defend themselves, you would dismiss it as someone getting upset and defensive of your opinion - when their opinion may well be justified and significant to their own situation.

Wake up, deary :(






Phalanx, guess what, if a child finds an interest, they will explore it. Whether they are seven or seventeen. It is best to help guide and keep the child out of the ugly side of things. The fact Nova is trying to find things SUITABLE for her child and show an interest in what she does says a lot about her. You cannot keep a child in a closet.


You don't have to reply to defend yourself, I know I'm right.


I truly cannot see what you found so offensive about Phans little comment
as to morbids ..

[Shazbut]

I truly cannot see what you found so offensive about Phans little comment
as to morbids ..

I thought the subject had changed back to something more lighthearted? :p

[Shazbut]

You don't have to reply to defend yourself, I know I'm right...your poor choices are your own.


Look! This wasnt about your point of view and/or opinions - I agreed with most of it.

Some of you are thinking I got pissed off because of said point of view/opinion. It wasnt that at all.

It was your last line that did it for me! Stubbs seems to think it was just a little sarcasm. Was it?

Now, if you go and check my posts you will see I do not oppose your opinion on the subject, ONLY your last line comment!

Doesnt that last line imply that if any parent here disagreed with you on your point of view/opinion, that you would see them as being on the defense - and therefore *guilty* of something?

*That's* what I was attempting to highlight - NOT your point of view or opinion on parents today but your dismissive last line comment.

This aint heavy, I just felt that it rather dismissive - 'tis all! :p

[Disease]

So Stubby, it is perfectly fine for him to tear into people, but the moment we return fire, we get OMG. Great double standards. He makes his comments on his idea of parenting, we are not allowed to respond back? Oh forgot, he has been here for a long time and we are newbs. Damn my ignorance.


Yeah Newb!:p

[stubbornforgey]

This would be a good debate if it never got too personal

[mordrid]

It wouldnt have got personal if certain people allowed a fair share of ideas instead of saying everyone else is wrong and others championing their control of the thread.

BTW Stubs, I added that comment to my post in response to Phan because I thought it was arrogant of him to do so and felt he needed it back at him. Keep supporting him though. And yes, this site has a dislike for newbs. You are just as bad as most, you just deny it more than them.

[stubbornforgey]

It wouldnt have got personal if certain people allowed a fair share of ideas instead of saying everyone else is wrong and others championing their control of the thread.

BTW Stubs, I added that comment to my post in response to Phan because I thought it was arrogant of him to do so and felt he needed it back at him. Keep supporting him though. And yes, this site has a dislike for newbs. You are just as bad as most, you just deny it more than them.

Of course we hate newbs..they take up too much closet space.!!!

How the hell can you so much as deny the fact that you took his comment way out of context.
By reading your response..it appears to me ..you were just looking for a debate..and pushing for an arguement.
Well..we here are sick of being accused as being portrayed as the assholes
just because our comments are too sharp or to the point
And besides..many of my bestfreinds are newbs..
and shit..if you found my 1st line offensive..then good for you..
em busy defending my right to a fair trial.

[Phalanx]

Fuck...you seriously feel as though you don't have the right to say whatever on account of being "new" here? Who fuckin' cares how new you are...if you've been buying into that for some reason, stop...I never once said anything like that myself...
re: what you said stub - I hope you didn't just relate her not being in complete unison with your views (or mine, you might've noticed) to some kind've dislike of newer members...if ever there's been another member here that's had fewer run- ins with anyone, new or not...I'd be surprised.
Not everything and everyone in life has to go your way...stop taking the world so personally. For someone claiming a right to an opinion you seem to be stepping on others right to make that choice for themselves.
Nothing to do with you being new or old...

[bwind22]

I was a goth for awhile when I was younger.
I was the 'dressed all in black, weird hair, listened to Bauhaus' type.
But that was a million years ago, and I barely remember or at least try to forget that period of time.

My 7 year just found out I was goth and can't get over it but wants to 'listen in' so to speak to the lifestyle.
She just bought her first pair of skull earrings and is very pleased with herself.:)

What websites and music would you neo goths recommend for me to check out for her?
Please take into consideration she is SEVEN.:D


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y122/bwind22/saynotogoth.jpg

[The Mothman]

http://images.wikia.com/nonsensopedia/images/thumb/7/74/OH_MY_GOD_UGLY_GOTH!!!.jpg/200px-OH_MY_GOD_UGLY_GOTH!!!.jpg

[The Mothman]

http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/images/goth24mh.jpg

[Shazbut]

Fuck...you seriously feel as though you don't have the right to say whatever on account of being "new" here? Who fuckin' cares how new you are...if you've been buying into that for some reason, stop...I never once said anything like that myself...
re: what you said stub - I hope you didn't just relate her not being in complete unison with your views (or mine, you might've noticed) to some kind've dislike of newer members...if ever there's been another member here that's had fewer run- ins with anyone, new or not...I'd be surprised.
Not everything and everyone in life has to go your way...stop taking the world so personally. For someone claiming a right to an opinion you seem to be stepping on others right to make that choice for themselves.
Nothing to do with you being new or old...

You took others opinions very personally. And the irony is, their opinions were not in opposition of your pov/opinion, it was simply that provocative last line comment. Its about your attitude - "No need to defend yourselves because I know I am right". You seem to have ignored what my posts were about. You have just jumped on this "see, I was right, you are on the defense because you disagree with my pov/opinion".

How many times does it take one to type what this is really about?

I am defending the right to tell you that your were rather arrogant and bigoted to dismiss anyone. That any remark that was deemed a negation of your point of view is an obvious defense mechanism of parents who are probably guilty of your observations. You didnt give people a chance by dismissing any negative response as defensive.

No one actually was in true disagreeance - more so, this was about that last line - (see above)- I have mentioned it plenty of times now.

Perhaps you said that last line as a deliberate provocation but when it got too hot you wanted to run away - twice you said you are outta here!!

What if I ended this with "and there is no need to defend yourself, I know I am right"? How would that make you feel?

For everyone's sanity, including my own (its tiring having to repeat oneself!) - I am leaving this alone now - but I do think you should consider MY reasons for responding to your original post .

I repeat - this is about your dismissive attitude, not your point of view/opinion.

[Doc Faustus]

I don't think a kid should be discouraged from something just because it will be a social stigma. Not only WILL be, but COULD be. Things we got attacked for on the playground are becoming more mainstream. It's okay to play MMORPGS, to like anime, to dig Final Fantasy games and to be into flashy technology. Geek culture and pop culture are merging hardcore, so Goth might not be the asskicking worthy stigma it used to be by the time a 7 year old girl reaches junior high. Besides, Goth culture is a good defense during adolescence. You seem tougher, you feel tougher, sometimes you actually got an objective handle on your depression. I actually wish I had listened to more Cure and Siouxsie when I was that age. My depression felt like leprosy back then and there was nobody else who actually thought the world was as dark and unloving as I did. I could have used the camraderie of people with similar perspective. Instead of being alone in my room contemplating hanging myself maybe I could have been hanging out with some pretty young thing in a black leather bustier listening to Depeche Mode. Which of the two alternatives is better? The purpose of tragedy is catharsis. It's in Aristotle and Aristotle is mad old and very important. Instead of getting catharsis from smoking an eighth a day or date raping cheerleaders, goths with perspective gain catharsis from their art and lifestyle. It's more than good for a kid. Does this mean draping oneself in it, believing that it's uncool to be happy or locking yourself in your room because Tim Burton will never come to your birthday party? No. Does this mean getting a bigass Cradle of Filth tattoo will complete you? No. Nova should be glad she has a kid that digs her music and might continue to dig her music. It means that she will probably end up with a teenager that trusts her and values her opinion. I think Siouxsie and the Banshees isn't too scary for a seven year old. Peepshow has very fun songs on it. Burn Up for example. I think some Nick Cave might be good too, except Murder Ballads. I'm also with Disease on Black Sabbath. The only bad experience I had with Sabbath was hearing Iron Man when I was a kid, not hearing the lyrics again for a few years and growing up convinced it was about the Marvel superhero of the same name. Sorry for the longwindedness, but I thought I'd give Phalanx's argument about social stigmas a longer counterpoint.

[Shazbut]

Some of my deepest, darkest days as a teenager were spent listening to the likes of Black Sabbath - "The Wall" by Pink Floyd had to be a classic *depressive* state - but it made me work out that there is always someone worse off than myself! But I found comfort in knowing that someone could voice what I felt in my heart at that time.

I also found having my own identity in choosing a style of dress and music choice that felt akin to my *self*. (Okay, 100's of other kids were dressing the same way or listening to the same music at the time! but then you get a sense of belonging too).

My children dig my music and zany ways - I did away with my emotional baggage with the help of music and, in that, have made way for a happy, easy lifestyle with my own children. Self-expression and being listened too, having people interested in their choices, is the key to happy kids :D

And yes, I thought "Iron Man" was about Ted Hughes' fictional book of the same name!! :p

[horrormad]

i cant belive one of the first replies didn't have iron maiden in it!!!
they do have bad songs but so did kiss.

[Phalanx]

Fuck...you seriously feel as though you don't have the right to say whatever on account of being "new" here? Who fuckin' cares how new you are...if you've been buying into that for some reason, stop...I never once said anything like that myself...
re: what you said stub - I hope you didn't just relate her not being in complete unison with your views (or mine, you might've noticed) to some kind've dislike of newer members...if ever there's been another member here that's had fewer run- ins with anyone, new or not...I'd be surprised.
Not everything and everyone in life has to go your way...stop taking the world so personally. For someone claiming a right to an opinion you seem to be stepping on others right to make that choice for themselves.
Nothing to do with you being new or old.

NB: That there statement was not directed at you, shazbut. If you think I "ran away", well perhaps I bowed out because (as I've stated) I had no interest in this becoming a huge argument, which is how it seemed to be leaning. The times I came back (as also stated) were to attempt to better explain my point of view which I am honestly convinced I've done by now, to the best of my ability. You've already said what your problems with my post were what, 3 times now? Message received.
The post above was not even regarding the thread topic, I was actually just trying to put across that everyone has a right to their say on this site, regardless of joining date...go ahead, read it again, completely different issue which arose...and not really directed at you in any way.

DF, I get your point, and you make some kind've sense...but...still, IMO a 7 year old kid being open to the kind've judgemental bullshit I've seen "goths" and not to mention any kind've "different" people go through, especially during childhood...is not something I'd personally invite upon my child. Again that remains despite any positives you perceive...formative childhood years...say it with me...and there it is, again.

[Elvis_Christ]

Buy her some Bathory and Darkthrone albums :)

[stubbornforgey]

It wouldnt have got personal if certain people allowed a fair share of ideas instead of saying everyone else is wrong and others championing their control of the thread.

BTW Stubs, I added that comment to my post in response to Phan because I thought it was arrogant of him to do so and felt he needed it back at him. Keep supporting him though. And yes, this site has a dislike for newbs. You are just as bad as most, you just deny it more than them.

if your referring to my welcome post to wu'...LOL..
he is not a new member..but a shit stirrer who was here in 05..
we know each other well..the asshole.

Take all comments as you please...