I want your opinions. I -crave- your opinions.

[venus headtrap]

Hey guys,

I know I'm new here; hey, I'm Ashley. I wanted to ask this question, actually, so I'm hoping for some heated debate (if I'm lucky ;) ) and just general opinion...

So I noticed the tendency in modern American horror lately to go further and further into intense visual representation (...ie, gore). And that these films are having physical side effects...

For example, I'm thinking of the reports of people throwing up in the aisles of Hostel; walking out of The Hills Have Eyes; fainting at Saw III. Lolling eyes, deformed rape scenes, racks which turn all limbs 180 degrees...


So:
+ Why do you think this influx of hardcore gore and the like is a current trend?

+ Do you think it's a current trend, or that it actually has older roots? If so, where?

+ If you enjoy going to these kinds of movies, why? If not, why not?

+ Have you ever experience physical trauma, akin to the news reports, at a sighting of any of these movies--even if you liked the movie?


I might have more questions, of course... but I'm really looking to engage with you all on this.

[slayer666]

The fact that you are asking serious horror-related questions proves that you are new here. Welcome!

+ Why do you think this influx of hardcore gore and the like is a current trend?


I agree that this is a trend now in American horror. I'm not sure that there is a good answer to the "why" question except to note that trends are cyclic and we've seen this one before.

+ Do you think it's a current trend, or that it actually has older roots? If so, where?

It is a current trend with roots in 70's exploitation flicks. Last House on the Left, TCM, the original Hills Have Eyes were the exploitation films that much of the current trend seems to be based on. I see what is happening now as more of a rehashing the exploitation subgenre as opposed to anything new.

+ If you enjoy going to these kinds of movies, why? If not, why not?

Although I do enjoy a small number of films that belong to this subgenre, this is my least favorite horror genre. In general, I have very little interest in watching torture, although I do make a few exceptions (e.g., Audition). Why don't I generally care for exploitation films? I suppose it is because I don't find them particularly entertaining. In fact, many of the recent ones I have seen were terrible films without any redeeming qualities I could discover (e.g., Hostel).

+ Have you ever experience physical trauma, akin to the news reports, at a sighting of any of these movies--even if you liked the movie?

No. I have turned a movie or two off before the end because it was so bad that I couldn't see wasting any more time on it, but I've never experienced the sort of reactions you described.

[ManchestrMorgue]

Good thread.

I don't think that depiction of "hardcore gore" is a recent trend. If you look at horror throughout the ages, pushing boundaries is nothing new. For example, consider Freaks (not gore, but caused considerable controversy for years after it was made), and the outrage by critics/censors at some of the early Hammer films (mainly for gore). These seem tame now, but at the time they were controversial in their time.

These films may seem tame now, but in their time they pushed boundaries that had hitherto not been crossed, and in this context were controversial. Once the boundary has been pushed, those that come after it need to push that boundary further or find other boundaries to become controversial.

These physical responses that you mention with Hills Have Eyes and Saw III are similar to those reported with older films such as The Exorcist, and even Dracula (1931). Hard to imagine given the films we are used to seeing now...

[swiss tony]

i think both manchester and slayer make good points and that the recent trend is a mixture of both answers. yes, its time for the 70's style video nasties to reappear because its their turn, and as part of the evolution of all art forms people are trying to 'push the boundaries'. the counter balance to these movies is the attempt to remake everything of quality that has come out of asia in the last ten years. what i find most disturbing isn't the mindless gore fests that we are seeing but western movie makers inability or unwillingness to make a thinking mans horror. why take the easy option and just buy the rights to these j horror classics when there are probably numerous talented american writers with great scripts out there. the remakes always suck anyway. the most notable exception is session 9 (i know its not a remake), and everything by M Night Shymalan

[Mictlantechutli]

We're at war.

The writing and directing of these gore-soaked films reflect the climate of cruelty across the globe right now. Many of the 1970s exploitation flicks were direct offshoots of Vietnam. Tom Savini openly admits that his time spent in Vietnam as a photographer shaped the way he created effects, and his gore effects lead the way for our current level of what's acceptable.

Things cooled off for a while and there was a general sense of global peace through the nineties, and these films faded away.

But the world is a very violent place these days. These films simply reflect current fears - which is the horror film's duty.

As for physical trauma, it's a movie. It can't leap off the screen and physically assault you. I'm sure you meant emotional/psychological trauma...and no, not traumatized by films regardless of their impact.

[Demonique]

I agree that this is not a recent trend, nor are the reactions to films new. When Alien came out in the theatre, people were screaming and running out halfway through. I have never had a reaction like that and frankly don't understand it.

I will stick my neck out by saying that I did enjoy Hostel and Saw - own them both and have watched them repeatedly. I believe the reason why I enjoy movies like this is because I have never seen a movie that actually scared me so I settle for ones that make me cringe.

[venus headtrap]

I will stick my neck out by saying that I did enjoy Hostel and Saw - own them both and have watched them repeatedly. I believe the reason why I enjoy movies like this is because I have never seen a movie that actually scared me so I settle for ones that make me cringe.

Hmmm... You've never seen a movie that scared you? Not even psychologically? A friend of mine said that the gore doesn't get to her because it's the psychological stuff that she "takes home with her." So it's the cringing that gives you the thrill?

Yeah--I noticed that, about the rehashing of exploitation films... especially with obvious references to films like Last House on the Left. Do you think the recent ones differ from the originals in concept? How do they modify--if they do at all--beyond the addition of more gore?

Mictlantechutli--you bring up an excellent point I hadn't thought about. When I think about music, I think about sociopolitical climate. I just hadn't thought to apply that to film -head hang sheepishly-. Great observation.

ManchestrMorgue, thanks for bringing up the Exorcist and Dracula--I didn't know that they, too, were reported as having physical side-effects. ...Do you know if these physical reactions occur in any film genre apart from horror?

Me, I'm curious on my own level... to a degree...
Like, do you ever feel guilty... or, well, any kind of emotion... at our ability to watch movies like these? That we're that desensitized? Or do you think it has nothing to do with desensitisation... because it all looks fake anyway? Do you think it looks fake?

I'm a bloody coward. I know it, in real life... I mean, put me in any of those Saw situations, and maybe I'd escape 3/12 of them or however many there are. I feel like if I watch them, it gives me that small revel because I know I could never do it in real life. One of my friends watches because he thinks it "prepares" him, should a similar situation ever occur to him (ok, not Saw style, but you know). How do you justify your attraction to the genre? What makes it make you tick?

[Riff]

I don't think it's a current trend so much as a continuing escalation of what's been going on in American horror films for the last 20+ years. American horror filmmakers have confused gore with horror, and try to substitute one for the other. Audiences have become more and more jaded to gore as a result of this, so the level of gore shown has increased. This has resulted in the recent revival of 70s style grindhouse horror. DON'T GET ME WRONG!!! I'm not saying that there aren't gory movies that are scary, just that a lot of filmmakers substitute gore for genuine thrills. I think that's why you're seeing a movement toward j-horror in the US. People are looking for suspense and chills, and that tradition has been kept in asian film. The problem is, when they do the US adaptation, their first impulse is "it's not gory enough... can we add more gore?"

[illdojo]

There is nothing I can say that has not already been said.
Killer Thread. ;)

[ManchestrMorgue]

ManchestrMorgue ...Do you know if these physical reactions occur in any film genre apart from horror?



Well, only the obvious one :eek:

But seriously, the reactions you are describing are merely the result of intense emotional/psychological reaction to the subject matter.

Therefore, it stands to reason that it would not be only horror movies that provoke a "physical reaction" in the viewer. Some people cry when they watch sad movies or romantic films, and this is similarly a physical expression of the emotional/psychological state that has been invoked by the film (coupled with the person's own life experiences, psychological milieu, and current emotional state).

As such, I don't think that horror films are the only films that can provoke a physical response in the viewer. However, the responses provoked by horror films may potentially be more dramatic to the onlooker.

[swiss tony]

I'm a bloody coward. I know it, in real life... I mean, put me in any of those Saw situations, and maybe I'd escape 3/12 of them or however many there are. I feel like if I watch them, it gives me that small revel because I know I could never do it in real life. One of my friends watches because he thinks it "prepares" him, should a similar situation ever occur to him (ok, not Saw style, but you know). How do you justify your attraction to the genre? What makes it make you tick?[/QUOTE]

i watch so i can think to myself 'holy fuck, i'm glad that shit isn't happening to me', closely followed by 'i wonder if that shits ever happened to someone else' hence, the fact i find movies that are based on fact or can at least happen much more disturbing. in short, i just watch these sorts of movies for adrenaline eg henry, hostel, last house on the left.
furthermore, i find there are two types of emotions provoked by horror. that was the first, the toe curling reaction. my prefered movie reaction type is the spine chiller eg ju on, exorcist, event horizon. as far as preparing yourself for similar situations goes i think your friend might be pulling your leg. he must enjoy these movies first and foremost. i mean, you wouldn't watch rocky if you wanted to learn how to scrap.
ps. good thread:)

[Demonique]

Hmmm... You've never seen a movie that scared you? Not even psychologically?
Scared me? As in hide behind the couch, pull the blanket over my head, copper penny taste in the back of the throat scared? No. Although I cannot claim that I have seen all the horror movies ever made or even most of them - I can't say that any I have seen have scared me. Perhaps I am missing some good movies. I have seen movies that have made me cringe, created tension and provoked thought but none that have really scared. I must say that atmosphere is a big draw for me as well.

[swiss tony]

Scared me? As in hide behind the couch, pull the blanket over my head, copper penny taste in the back of the throat scared? No. Although I cannot claim that I have seen all the horror movies ever made or even most of them - I can't say that any I have seen have scared me. Perhaps I am missing some good movies. I have seen movies that have made me cringe, created tension and provoked thought but none that have really scared. I must say that atmosphere is a big draw for me as well.

never had hairs stand up on the back of your neck? what about in real life? good god maybe you are a cenobyte! lol. what about as a child? the omen, exorcist etc were there for me in my adolescence. lost plenty of sleep over them

[Demonique]

Scared in real life - absolutely yes. That is why I know what that scared taste is like. Movies do not scare me - at least none that I have seen yet. I think it is because I know that a movie is a bunch of people playing make believe and getting paid for it. I also find myself analyzing the gore scenes as to "how'd they do that?". So the realism is not there for me. Cenobites - gotta love 'em. lol. :D I used to read scary books as a kid and they kept me up at night. But back to the topic at hand - I still feel that if I am not scared, a movie that makes me cringe is nearly as good.

[swiss tony]

fair enough. when i watch horror movies i sit as close as i can to the t.v.(within reason), turn off the lights and insist on silence at the key times so i can become totally engrossed by it. it sounds like a logical analytical mind might not be letting you get everything you can out of movies. :eek: blair witch made me jumpy for a couple of hours afterwards and i was in my mid twenties at the time. yikes! just occurred to me that maybe i'm in the minority and have just admitted to being a big girl.

[Demonique]

yikes! just occurred to me that maybe i'm in the minority and have just admitted to being a big girl.

Worry not - I may just admit to being thirty-mumble as well. That's as far as this girl goes in the age dept. I think that my lack of belief in movies may stem somewhat from my passion for books. Everything in a book seems more real to me and books get a much more emotional response. I liked Blair Witch (ducks, waiting for rocks) and thought it was novel for its hype - if a little exasperating when someone tells you all wide-eyed for the 30th time that it's a true story. I also enforce a no talking rule and all the lights are out when I watch movies but the reality just isn't there for me. This does not stop me from loving horror in any way.

[swiss tony]

i hear you. on the subject of real movies, given that you like cringey horror, have you seen cannibal holocaust? sick shit. (joking about the 'real' bit). i do like a lot of the gore stuff, i find i spend most of the movie laughing at the worst bits. i think thats a defensive reaction. do you prefer movies that are blood soaked where appropriate or the o.t.t. splatter fests?

[Demonique]

I would have to go with blood soaked where appropriate, splatter fests I just find funny (laughing at gore will cause those around you to edge away from you nervously - I know). I like a good story and if it comes with those "eww!" moments, that's even better. Event Horizon is on top of my movie list as well - the gore furthers the story - it is not the story in itself. The same could be said for Saw and Hostel.

[swiss tony]

i thought event... was more ghost than gore. actually, that might be the reason why it appeals. it has equal parts of both. generally, i find less is more in relation to gore (nice! it rhymes). take an american werewolf in london or candyman or it or the omen. a sense of menace is always superior to splatter. sometimes i find myself saying 'why are you screamiing its only a hand, you have a spare. the japanese girl in the last movie had a fucking blow torch in her eye'. we become desensitised. but a good psychological thriller can always mess with your head. session9 is a great mix of menace with nastiness at the right time. if anyone can recommend some more finely balanced movies of the same ilk as event horizon and session9 i'd be very interested.