prepare to weep - review of Zombie's HALLOWEEN script

[Roderick Usher]

The article is spoiler heavy, so beware! My confidence in this project just got tossed in the shitter.

Yeah, I know. Remakes cannot harm the original. The original is timeless and forever and all of that crap, but I really wanted Zombie to deliver on this one. I'm still waiting for him to make a really good film. He's had his moments, but I know he can do better.

Read at your own peril.


http://www.aintitcool.com/node/31221

[The Mothman]

rob zombies films are mixed. one is awesome, one sucks. looks like he made another stinker.

[halloweenfreak1]

i will be extreamly pissed if that is the script, EXTREAMLY!

[Elvis_Christ]

That review doesn't faze me at all, some of the ideas sounded interesting and it is a draft heaps of shit is bound to be reworked. This flick will be great.

[The_Return]

I agree with whoever wrote that review: Change the title and lose the mask. Could turn out to be a half-decent slasher, but if it's anything like what he described - it just isnt Halloween:(

[_____V_____]

hmm...I have my doubts if the script he read was the real one or an early draft, if real. But if thats the final one on which Zombie is shooting his movie, then he better shoot himself first.

Jameslofton had already posted a thread yesterday about it, but I wasnt sure if that was true. But now this confirms it. I ve got 3 words for Zombie..."it wont work", because degrading an icon's origin will never go well with the audiences or the critics alike.

[neverending]

Well, I'm not as ga-ga as most folks are about the original film- I think it's a very good horror movie, but I don't lionize it the way younger viewers do. And some of you know what I think of remakes in general. Given those caveats, I wasn't expecting much from this film in the first place. Aside from the Rob Zombie touches, it sounds like the script was standard remake fare- "Oh we'll show the killer's past and make a story from that, no matter how little it has to do with the original story."

Bleh.

[XtRaVa]

Rob Zombie is a fucking cock. I think he's a complete loser. He's obsessed with stupid blonde sluts and gorefests. He really is a sad cunt.

[XtRaVa]

Now for a more coherent post:

When it was announced it would be Tyler as Myers, I straight away said how bizarre it was that Michael is now 6'10" and muscly, considering he's supposed to be 6'. Someone said to me, well its a remake, you wouldnt want it to be a frame by frame copy.

I agreed but also said, well some things have to be the same for it to be Halloween, if I saw a guy running around with a sack over his head I'd have to leave the cinema, thats just NOT how it should be. His mask is a hugely iconic horror symbol.

We know that when Loomis has Michael in care as a child, he describes how Michael was completely unresponsive and his eyes just looked through him, through the wall, only seeing the night he would eventually get back. This shows hes truly evil, now its going to show Michael talking with him and colouring in masks ffs, how fucking lame can you get?

[alkytrio666]

40 pages...almost 1/3 of the script...devoted to Michael's childhood? Bad news. Baaaddd news.

[Doc Faustus]

Oh ye gods.

[phantomstranger]

Lets all just stay at home and watch the original.

[slayer666]

He's obsessed with stupid blonde sluts...

You say that like its a bad thing.

[the_real_linda]

OMG im off to watch halloween now well soon to get all that outta my head

[XtRaVa]

You say that like its a bad thing.

I'm just jealous of him in relation to blonde sluts ;)

[hitman3005]

Think i'll go over to Rach's house and try to get that horrible remake script out of my head...I'LL BRING THE LIQUOR!

[the_real_linda]

as long as its jack d or vodka then get your ass over.....bring some popcorn too

[hitman3005]

Well i'll be damned! I have all three in the house! Now, just have to check airfare...

[the_real_linda]

so you aint got magikal powers to bampf you here.....pout :(

[hitman3005]

Let's see...nope. Damn the man!:mad:

[Puppet]

someone copy and and paste, this comp wont let me on the website to read the review.

[the_real_linda]

yeah always balme 'the man'


your the man

why thank you



school of rock

[Puppet]

hate that movie, hate jack black

[the_real_linda]

and you hate tenacious d

[Twilight_Zone]

I wasnt very happy to hear Zombie was directing halloween because his movies are all about gore which halloween is not about. Have to wait and see it.
ps Tenacious D rules

[Roderick Usher]

For those who couldn't reach the link:


Quint has read the script for Rob Zombie's HALLOWEEN remake!!!
Ahoy, squirts! Quint here with my thoughts on Rob Zombie's HALLOWEEN remake script.

Let's get the background out of the way first. I liked the first 10 minutes of HOUSE OF 1000 CORPSES, but it went downhill after that, turning into a boring exercise in style over substance. However, Zombie won me back with DEVIL'S REJECTS. I can point to some dialog that didn't work, but overall the tone he captured, the characters he gave us and superb casting of horror icons really won me over. To this day, I think REJECTS made good on the promise he was making about CORPSES being a return to hard edged '70s exploitation.

I am a gonzo huge fan of John Carpenter's original HALLOWEEN. It wouldn't be an exaggeration to say I've seen that movie 50 times from start to finish. I'm very protective of it, but at the same time I recognize how shitty the sequels got. The only film I really hold up on a pedestal is the original, though I love HALLOWEEN II and get a bizarre kick out of the Michael Myers-less 3... but that could be due to my idol worship of Tom Atkins.

So, I wasn't the biggest fan of the idea of remaking HALLOWEEN, but having loved the '70s feel of REJECTS and seeing that Zombie seemed to hold HALLOWEEN as dearly as I did, I thought I'd give him a chance. I'm not automatically against a remake if there's someone really interesting involved, like when Carpenter remade THE THING. He had an interesting vision and made an incredible film. Hell, I even really liked the ASSAULT ON PRECINCT 13 remake that came out a couple years ago.

So it was that I cracked open the script. And so it is that I'm writing this now, absolutely befuddled.

I'm hoping the script I read (a long script, at 125 pages) is a very, very, very early draft. Even if it is, there are some very fundamental things wrong with it.

The script starts out with a home movie of the Myers family, which freezes on a gap-toothed young Michael Myers grinning for the camera. The title HALLOWEEN is placed here. From this point on, we're treated to over 40 pages of the Young Michael Myers Chronicles. In these adventures, bullies pick on him, his stripper mom's redneck boyfriend (to be played by William Forsythe) calls him a faggot and keeps talking about fucking his mom in front of him and the 10 year old Myers masturbates to Polaroids of various animals he's killed while listening to them die on playback from his trusty tape recorder.

Look. This is a remake, so of course I was expecting some things to change. I would have been kind of pissed if it was just a retread, but what I really find myself disappointed with is the lack of understanding Zombie is showing on why Michael Myers works. In the original film, Myers was bigger than a serial killer or a psychopath. He was evil. Unemotional. Uncaring. He was the boogeyman. Hence the ending line. His character was never even referred to in the script as Michael, but as The Shape.

When you explain away Michael, giving him modern day serial killer hellish upbringing, you take away his power. He no longer represents a myth bigger than a person, he doesn't represent death incarnate. He's just an average psycho in a mask. There's nothing special to him anymore.

I was hoping that Zombie, as a professed fan of Carpenter's film, would understand that and it's my biggest disappointment in the script that Zombie doesn't seem to.

There was even a point, around the time 10 year old Myers is in Loomis' care and chatting it up while coloring paper masks, that I thought I might have a fake script. But the script is filled with new characters that Zombie has cast, like Big Joe Grizzly (Ken Foree) and Ronnie White (Forsythe) and Nole Kluggs (Lew Temple), that there's not a real possibility that I got a fake. So, the hope is still there that it's a very early draft and the reason that hope is there is thus: A) There seem to be about 2 typos per page and B) A cast character, Ismael Cruz (Danny Trejo), is not in the script I read. Every other character who has been cast is in it and there are a ton of roles I can see Trejo in.

So, let's get back to the script a bit. There are two ideas in the new script that I really like. Despite Michael's rough childhood, he always showed affection towards the baby, nicknamed "Boo." Followers of the Halloween series will know why that is important and if you don't know, I'd advise you to stop reading. I'm not going to ruin new, specific beats, but I am going to talk about this as a fan of the mythos of the series.

Of course, "Boo" is baby Laurie. If it was up to me, I'd show Myers as an emotionless kid, always kind of blank, but a glimmer pops up whenever he sees the baby. I like the idea of him drawn to her and that giving him a reason for seeking her out later.

I also quite like the idea of spending some time with Dr. Loomis trying to get through to Michael. Ideally, it'd be a good place to explore Loomis as a character. He shouldn't be having conversations with Myers, he should be slowly realizing what he doesn't want to. If Michael's pure evil, without having a reason to be evil (no verbally abusive father figure or mean bullies), it flies in the face of everything Dr. Loomis believes in as a psychiatrist. That is where Loomis' obsession with Myers comes from. That's fascinating to me.

Here, Dr. Loomis falls into the background. This is all Michael Myers all the time, which is another mistake. Zombie forgoes Myers being a quiet shell, with dead eyes, from the moment Loomis sees him. We see his mood swings, he chats away and colors in different pieces of paper to make masks that we find out later, when we meet the adult Michael Myers, that he uses them to represent his mood, including when he needs to take a shit. In Michael Myers' mind, he goes, "It's about time I put on the 'I gotta take a shit' mask so I can express myself."

We meet adult Michael Myers on page 48 and here's another shocker. There's a reason Tyler Mane was cast. Michael Myers is described in the script as being 6'10" and 280lbs. Again, that strikes me as being untrue to the original character. Making him a hulk of a being kind of puts him into the Jason or Leatherface realm, no?

As an adult, Michael Myers feels like an amalgam of the Myers we know and Leatherface from the CHAINSAW remakes. He's big and he chases people down. Gone is the sure and steady, calm and unemotional Myers.

Laurie Strode isn't introduced until page 69 and the final moments of Myers stalking Haddonfield don't really happen until the last 20/25 pages. And yes, it does feel rushed.

And yes, adult Michael Myers, with the mask, does speak. Ugg... And yes, they try to show Myers' "human" side in the last act. Double Ugg...

The good news is just from a pure exploitation angle, Zombie included lots of gore and a ridiculous amount of nudity. It's going to really weird me out if Hanna R. Hall (the first Jenny in Forrest Gump) reveals as much as the script requires Judith Myers to reveal. And the 10 year old Myers groping her before stabbing her is also going to freak me out a tad. Sheri Moon's character is always wearing something skimpy in the script and Danielle Harris' Annie (a great move casting Harris, by the way) gets very exposed. Actually, pretty much every female in the script except for Laurie Strode, will get naked. Great. I just wish he'd make that a different movie, take the mask out of it, change the names and not draw the comparisons.

I can see Malcolm McDowell (another great bit of casting) being excellent in the role of Dr. Loomis and I can see him making some of the weak dialog work just out of sheer charisma and talent, but compared to the Donald Pleasance Loomis, I'm afraid he's going to fall short. This Loomis, as written, is too weak and when he goes a little mental trying to talk people into the threat of Myers he just comes off as annoying.

The script has a very high body count, ample nudity and a solid cast. But I firmly believe Zombie completely missed the boat on Myers and is making a big mistake with the story. The script really feels like he just wants to make Halloween... but super-badass hardcore and fuckin' extreme, without a thought to the character work that went into the original. The dialog is distractingly bad at times. He does keep Lynda's overuse of the word totally, but then he adds in Annie and Lynda always calling each other "bitch" every time they see each other. "Hey bitches!"

If I can get my hands on a the shooting draft I will. I wanted this to work, but the script I read is a real disappointment. Hopefully there are some big changes from the draft I read. And I mean big. You can play around with a lot of things... setting, style, camera movement and certain characters, but to mess with Michael Myers as a movie monster is unforgivable.

[the_real_linda]

I wasnt very happy to hear Zombie was directing halloween because his movies are all about gore which halloween is not about. Have to wait and see it.
ps Tenacious D rules

yay tenacious d!!!! yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yeah from atmospheric to rob zombie stylee.....who knows tho cuz i love his films and halloween

[Elvis_Christ]

I wasnt very happy to hear Zombie was directing halloween because his movies are all about gore

His films aren't all about gore :rolleyes:

[X¤MurderDoll¤X]

Someone once told me a script is just the crap a writer takes before the talented people try to spin it into gold.

I don't know how you would spin crap in to gold but I think what he meant was that the all mighty script doesn't mean much, especially in the remake of a mindless slasher movie.

High body count you say? sounds better than the original already. Michael Myers talking?! *gasp* Oh no, you mean Rob Zombie is... Dare I say it... trying to do something new and different with the remake??? The sad thing is that even if this movie was twice as good as the original, none of you hardcore fans would admit it.

I want to see rob zombies version not a 2nd rate John carpenter version thanks.

[the_real_linda]

yeah why make it similar cause we all got the original to watch so make it his...put that zombie magik in it..

[Roderick Usher]

Someone once told me a script is just the crap a writer takes before the talented people try to spin it into gold.


guessing it's someone who isn't in the film industry.

[Roderick Usher]

A rumor being reported on Bloody Disgusting and AICN is claiming the the internet uproar over the review of the script has sent Zombie back to the keyboard and production will be delayed.

Don't know if thereis truth to it, but it does seem possible. Either way, rewrites and production delays are all part of the filmmaking process. I'll still be in the theater opening day for this one...hoping for the best, preparing for the worst.

[urgeok]

i feel that i'm suddenly in a place where i dont actually care what anyone does with any film anymore.

like i said recently - it will be bad, or it will be good.
i wont run to the theatre to see it - because i'm unable to see most films in the theatre these days.

I'll probably 'get my hands on it' to check it out - and if it IS good - I'll buy it.

i honestly dont care if he makes a movie about bunnies and nuns in outerspace having a strawberry eating contest, and calls it halloween ... i still have the origional to watch whenever i want.

[the_real_linda]

yeah it dosent matter what any of us say if there gonna make them then fairy snuff....and ill try and get to see most films any way and yep same as....if i love it then ill buy it.....and i doubt itll be better than halloween....well its a certanty really

[can't get enough gore]

why zombie..why must you ruin everything?????????!!!!!!!!????????

[Despare]

why zombie..why must you ruin everything?????????!!!!!!!!????????

Ummmm... what exactly has he ruined? I think his cover of KC and the Sunshine Band's Boogeyman kicked ass.

[davidd60]

so is this movie going to be pushed back or what

[can't get enough gore]

Ummmm... what exactly has he ruined? I think his cover of KC and the Sunshine Band's Boogeyman kicked ass.

this movie is horrible...micheal never grunts

[Roderick Usher]

this movie is horrible...micheal never grunts

it isn't even a movie yet - and the script is being rewritten.

[the_real_linda]

Ummmm... what exactly has he ruined? I think his cover of KC and the Sunshine Band's Boogeyman kicked ass.

as did his brickhouse and blitzkrieg bop

[can't get enough gore]

No-one. It doesn't need to be remade. Rob Zombie is a fucking retard.

dont say retard!!!! roderick might slap you on the hand

[Roderick Usher]

US!!!!! i bet a handful of people like us could knock that dipshit's film out of the park...i got the mask and jumpsuit....BTW sorry that "homo" hurts your fealings roderick

I'm just sending out the friendly warning. The whole board has gotten its panties in a bunch over this kind of talk.

Me? Couldn't care less.

[Master]

dont say retard!!!! roderick might slap you on the hand

Rob Zombie IS a fucking retard.

[the_real_linda]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!


what do you base this opinion on?

[can't get enough gore]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!


what do you base this opinion on?

rob zombie not being able to make a good horror film(yet)

[Roderick Usher]

rob zombie not being able to make a good horror film(yet)

Well have YOU made a good horror movie yet? Are YOU a retard?

[can't get enough gore]

Well have YOU made a good horror movie yet? Are YOU a retard?

have YOU???? by the way sorry i yelled at you(read the TCM:beginning thread)dont turn this conversation on me...if i had the materials i would make a movie so there

[Roderick Usher]

I've made some bad ones:o

But I have a good one that starts rolling really soon

[the_real_linda]

oooooh come on rod......info???


and i thin kpeople ar etoo quick to judge a film as bad....wait till you make one folks before you judge so harshly

[Roderick Usher]

oooooh come on rod......info???


Watch the SciFi Channel Original Movie this Saturday, January 27, 9pm

and the upcoming - check the "DAMNED Casting" thread in the Horror Filmmakers forum

[the_real_linda]

thanks rod

[can't get enough gore]

prepare to weep-i have been weeping ever since i heard he was doing this movie