Fashion Horror

[Roderick Usher]

I have a real love/hate thing going on with Dario Argento.

It is obvious to anyone who has ever watched one of his films that he is obsessed with art direction, color, composition - all the hallmarks of a true visual stylist, but it also seems he couldn't give two shits for the actor's performance - at least that's what I used to think.

The more I watch of his films the more it seems to me that he actually ONLY wants the surface. It's as though he wishes to rip the humanity out of his actors, and force them to play everything as empty vessels. This is tremendously off-putting to anyone who wishes to connect with the characters. If you want empathy of any kind (and any actual horror), stay away from Argento. I really feel he dares you to care about his characters.

And story? In an Argento flick? Forget about it.

It's all about the glamour - the surface - the image - and as such, is wonderfully trashy pop art.

FASHION HORROR!

I know some of you here LOVE him and some don't like him at all.

I'd say his films aren't scary in the least, but they're full of beautiful photographs.

Your thoughts?

[Vodstok]

With few exceptions, i really dont like "style over substance", so i have more or less hated everythign i have ever seen from him, although the list is short.

I was almost burned at the stake here a few years back when i finally watched Suspiria and hated it.


HEY! I think i finally figured out where the old woman fromthe closet (in my nightmare last week) came from... same concept, anyway...

[urgeok]

i dont think everything he's done is gold - but it is a niche of horror i enjoy because of it's unique aesthetic...

i keep mentioning deep red because i do like the actors performance in that one ... hemmings is good enough to bring something extra to the table.

but singling out Argento as a horror maker who is concerned with only the surface .. all i can say is that still makes him heads and shoulders above most other horror filmmakers who dont seem to give a shit about absolutely anything.

[Vodstok]

but sigling out Argento as a horror maker who is concerned with only the surface .. all i can say is that still makes him heads and shoulders above most other horror filmmakers who dont seem to give a shit about absolutely anything.

Wow. i have no choice but to agree with that.

[The Mothman]

i thought suspiria failed miserably to deliver visually....so what there was different colored lighting. all around rather boring film.

[zwoti]

And story? In an Argento flick? Forget about it.

It's all about the glamour - the surface - the image - and as such, is wonderfully trashy pop art.

FASHION HORROR!

I know some of you here LOVE him and some don't like him at all.

I'd say his films aren't scary in the least, but they're full of beautiful photographs.

Your thoughts?

the quintessential giallo director?

[paws the great]

I like Dario Argento,but I like Sergio Martino better.

[Popsicle Cannibal]

In Argento films, style IS the substance.

[Vodstok]

In Argento films, style IS the substance.

thats like saying "the garnish IS the dish."

And i still say, a plate full of parsley still tastes like shit.

[Popsicle Cannibal]

thats like saying "the garnish IS the dish."

And i still say, a plate full of parsley still tastes like shit.

1. Parsley sucks ass and serves no purpose besides sitting next to my delicious steak.
2. Your comparison is really clever, but I meant that, in my opinion, films as visually interesting as Dario's work can be appreciated in their own way. Yeah, the plots are nowhere to be found, the acting sucks, and the dialogue is boring. If he could put as much energy and talent into those things as he does with visual tricks, he'd be a perfect director.

[PR3SSUR3]

However there is a level of commitment - naive or otherwise - present in Argento's films that is far beyond many of his American counterparts. A similar thing goes for Lucio Fulci, with his raw approach to gore providing a substance of its own, like Argento's gloss. It's not the violent acts themselves, its about how the film builds and reacts to them.

I do not think either of these directors are crafty or manipulative enough to deliberately create empty characters - they are perhaps not competent enough to grind out decent performances from poor scripts and actors (and don't forget dubbing), but their work is very watchable nonetheless, even as anti-cinema.

[urgeok]

thats like saying "the garnish IS the dish."

And i still say, a plate full of parsley still tastes like shit.

yeah i dont think the 'style is the substance' is completely correct re. argento.
he still has to have a base.

since we're using food analogies here ..

style is the pickles mustard relish ketchup lettuce onions on a hamburger.
the meat patty itself is the story/acting

you can transform a tasteless patty into a hamburger of beauty with the right garnishes ...

i couldnt eat a plain hamburger no matter how good the quality is... i dont want to taste 'just meat'

so i guess in my world - style helps a film more than substance - at least with horror films .. i wouldnt want either on their own ... but style weighs heavier in the balance for me.

[Vodstok]

so i guess in my world - style helps a film more than substance - at least with horror films .. i wouldnt want either on their own ... but style weighs heavier in the balance for me.

I think we have hit the nail on the head here. I prefer the substance, but substance without ANY style is a documentary. One o fthose slide show documentaries, about STDs they showed back in grade school.

[urgeok]

I think we have hit the nail on the head here. I prefer the substance, but substance without ANY style is a documentary. .


or porn !!!!

[Vodstok]

or porn !!!!


Very true.

[The Flayed One]

I suppose you could always compare it to a woman (or man if you prefer) in the sense. "Fashion Horror" (I love the term, Rod) is wonderful if you just want to tune in and turn off the brain. I like looking at women who I think are hot just as much as the next guy. However, in the end I'd much rather have the plain looking woman with a lot of brains.

[urgeok]

i dont like that analogy ..

i think you have to have brains to have effective style .. a higher sense of art and composition, superior cinematography and sense of how the appropriate music can enhance a scene in a stylistic way (instead of pounding a scene home with a hammer)

in your analogy you're assuming the hot looking woman isnt smart ..

if you're talking about the blonde big titted brainless bimbo - then you're looking at the majority of slasher movies from the 80s (not all, elvis - the majority !)

a ditzy good looking woman (or man) - they were born that way - they didnt have to work at it .. by the same token a base slasher doesnt work at it either .. it just kills off stock 2 dimentional teenage characters ..
some fun kills - good to look at - but it doesnt mean you could hold a meaningfull conversation about/with it.

[The Flayed One]

You know, I was a hair away from posting "Of course, that doesn't mean beautiful=dumb. There are movies that do both, the same with people. Take City Of Lost Children or Amelie. Both beautiful & very intelligent. They're like the hot, sexy woman with a degree in theoretical physics."

Then I thought to myself, nah, I don't need to. Surely no picky bastard will come into this thread and call me out on it.:p

I see what you're saying, though.

[urgeok]

yeah, basically my point was i still think you have to have a pretty intelligent production to pull of style properly.

i've seen some shit movies that tried to rely on style but the filmmaker/editor didnt have the skill to pull it off and it becomes and embarrasing thing to watch.


like someone singing karaoke completely off key while wearing an expression that says 'god damn, i'm a great singer'

[Vodstok]

There are movies that do both, the same with people. Take City Of Lost Children or Amelie. Both beautiful & very intelligent. They're like the hot, sexy woman with a degree in theoretical physics."

unattainable?

:)

[The Flayed One]

unattainable?

:)


See?! SEE?! This is why we can't have good conversations! Smartasses, the lot of you!:D

[urgeok]

of course the truest and purest illustration of fashion horror - would be vod in a tube top and mini skirt - with high heels. and lipstick...

NURSE !!!!!!!

[Vodstok]

of course the truest and purest illustration of fashion horror - would be vod in a tube top and mini skirt - with high heels. and lipstick...

NURSE !!!!!!!

Axe the miniskirt. i have a sweet ass and it would offset the pure horror of the rest of it.

[urgeok]

Axe the miniskirt. i have a sweet ass and it would offset the pure horror of the rest of it.


everytime you say that i taste acid in my throat

[Vodstok]

everytime you say that i taste acid in my throat

:D


i think so far i have yet to be topped as far as creating disturbing and gut wrenching imagary :). Good thing im a horror writer ;)

[urgeok]

:D


i think so far i have yet to be topped as far as creating disturbing and gut wrenching imagary :). Good thing im a horror writer ;)


nah, you're just a big SLUT !!!!

[Vodstok]

nah, you're just a big SLUT !!!!

Worse, im just a tease.