View Full Version : Boys and Girls
urgeok
11-10-2006, 07:46 AM
I saw something on TV the other day that almost made me lose my mind.
But first - a small sociology discussion.
Shortly after we are born the programming begins.
Boys are dressed in blue - girls in pink.
Then we shove a toy truck in a boys hand - and a baby doll in the girls.
The boy begins his programming with all things mechanical, noisy, rough and tumble..
the girls begin the nuturing program.
in school boys are pushed towards sports, the girls learn how to cook and sew.
It was/is like this for years and years. that hunter/gatherer mentality is so ingrained in our genetic makeup we are barely beginning to challenge it now after all this time.
But there has been some progress made - baby steps ... slow but sure.
more girls are participating in team sports these days - this is a huge positive deal.
I'm sure sports origionated as a way to hone physical (hunting) skills, then war training .. but it evolved into something wonderful.
The kids that participate in team sports learn skills they will use the rest of their lives - in family situations and in work.
(if you think this is bullshit you should see the difference between a mixed sex work environment and a women only work environment. Most (from my and my wifes experiences) women dont get along in numbers - most dont understand the concept of teamwork because they never learned it growing up.
I'm basing a lot of this on womens comments so i'm not a raging sexist here.
Women were raised/trained/programmed with other positive traits but usually teamwork wasnt one of them.
this is changing - for the better.
but the other day - and the thing that got me thinking about this whole rant is :
i saw an AD for a new board game.
it simulates a day of shopping at the mall .. little girls get cash and credit cards and try to spend all their money.
what the fuck, is it or is it not 2006 ?
I saw something on TV the other day that almost made me lose my mind.
But first - a small sociology discussion.
Shortly after we are born the programming begins.
Boys are dressed in blue - girls in pink.
Then we shove a toy truck in a boys hand - and a baby doll in the girls.
The boy begins his programming with all things mechanical, noisy, rough and tumble..
the girls begin the nuturing program.
in school boys are pushed towards sports, the girls learn how to cook and sew.
It was/is like this for years and years. that hunter/gatherer mentality is so ingrained in our genetic makeup we are barely beginning to challenge it now after all this time.
But there has been some progress made - baby steps ... slow but sure.
more girls are participating in team sports these days - this is a huge positive deal.
And some "men" are folding laundry.
As far as women in the work place, i'm gonna have to agree. I see it at my job where its all woman in the office and my wife tells me her place is brutal.Much backstabbing.
bloodrayne
11-10-2006, 08:11 AM
i saw an AD for a new board game.
it simulates a day of shopping at the mall .. little girls get cash and credit cards and try to spend all their money.
Ugh...I utterly HATE shopping...What a lame game concept...
I don't fit most of the traditional gender roles...Neither do most of the people I know...As a matter of fact, when one of the kids asks questions about tools, and their use (most specifically power tools), Dustin refers them to me...That's just one example of many...
OH...And I fucking HATE the color pink...
The Flayed One
11-10-2006, 08:13 AM
OH...And I fucking HATE the color pink...
I know. You prefer mauve.
urgeok
11-10-2006, 08:14 AM
Ugh...I utterly HATE shopping...What a lame game concept...
I don't fit most of the traditional gender roles...Neither do most of the people I know...As a matter of fact, when one of the kids asks questions about tools, and their use (most specifically power tools), Dustin refers them to me...That's just one example of many...
there are always exceptions ...
my wife knows more about hockey than me .. but she was raised traditionally ..
there will always be some people to break the mold - but they are the exceptions not the rule.
there are entire cultures who's tradition still insist that their women are there to make babies and do what they're told.
novakru
11-10-2006, 08:16 AM
Interesting thread.
I think that same thing everytime I see an AD for 'Girls Gone Wild'.
All the progress our mothers tried to make in the 60's all gone to hell in an episode of 'America's TOP fricking MODEL'.:rolleyes:
I have also seen this docu on Discovery channel about a group of kids raised from birth to about 5 with no gender influence (or as much as possible ,i.e. Toys, TV, etc)
And they had the boys trying to start Battles with non-gender dolls and certain non-voilent toys as weapons.
We have along way to go and I say if the females will come together ,we can do alot good in the world.
But unfortuntley there will be a man and two females on Jerry Springer next week to put us back years of hard progress.
urgeok
11-10-2006, 08:17 AM
As far as women in the work place, i'm gonna have to agree. I see it at my job where its all woman in the office and my wife tells me her place is brutal.Much backstabbing.
yeah .. guys will pretty much confront each other and deal with the issue.
the women in these situations tend to pick sides and wage these weird silent wars..
one of the instances where men actually do have it right.
Vodstok
11-10-2006, 08:18 AM
In our house its 50/50, responsibilities dont have anythign to do with gender. I work and Bree stays home, buthtta has everythign to do with me being older and having an established carreer when we met, and she was still in college.
I cook. i do the dishes.
Vodstok
11-10-2006, 08:20 AM
yeah .. guys will pretty much confront each other and deal with the issue.
the women in these situations tend to pick sides and wage these weird silent wars..
one of the instances where men actually do have it right.
My wife is a very "Confront the situation NOW" type person. Not very many peopel like it, but I do :)
buthtta has everythign
What language you speaking these days Vod?
urgeok
11-10-2006, 08:21 AM
I have also seen this docu on Discovery channel about a group of kids raised from birth to about 5 with no gender influence (or as much as possible ,i.e. Toys, TV, etc)
And they had the boys trying to start Battles with non-gender dolls and certain non-voilent toys as weapons.
doesnt suprise me in the least .. we have built in instincts at a cellular level.
years of genetics at work.
we have other instincts as well, greed, violence, the instinct to stick with 'our own kind' ... but with retraining and intelligence we are supposed to overcome these base predispositions.
Roderick Usher
11-10-2006, 08:22 AM
i saw an AD for a new board game.
it simulates a day of shopping at the mall .. little girls get cash and credit cards and try to spend all their money.
I'm less concerned about the sex role sereotyping and more concerned with the fact that they're training consumers
Whenever my kids come running to me after seeing some shit on a commercial saying "I want that" I ask them "What are commercials"
and they respond "Lies"
So...
you can counter-program them too!
oh - and when I first pulled the "commercials are all lies designed to fool you into thinking you need something that you don't" with my eldest, he replied "You do commercials, dad" (I was acting at the time)
I called my commercial agent and quit that day.
Vodstok
11-10-2006, 08:22 AM
But That has....
I have no idea.. I think "Father of an 11 month old" is its own language....
stygianwitch
11-10-2006, 08:24 AM
I agree with you completely, we are all programmed from birth, i was very lucky in that my parents didn't follow that doctrine
At home there was no such thing as different gender, we were all (myself, 2 brothers and a sister) treated the same way
If my mom was ill and someone had to cook the meal whoever was there did it, likewise if dad needed help with the car
As a result, we all grew up capable of fending for ourselves, we could all cook, clean, iron, change fan belts, bleed brakes etc.
And about the workplace.... women are real bitches when put in large groups, they don't work together, they fight for dominance, stab one another in the back and couldn't present a united front if you gave them a step-by-step manual
bloodrayne
11-10-2006, 08:26 AM
I was practically raised by my uncles, my mother was always working...I'm not sure they would have known how to do the 'gender conditioning', nor would they have given a shit about it...
I DO remember one incident when I was 10 years old, when I felt the 'difference':
We had been working in the tobacco field all day (we would start at 5am)...It was just after noon, and it had been extremely hot all day, I thought the sun was gonna kill me...We were all filthy, sweaty, and sunburnt ( I got it the worst, being a redhead)...We took a break...The guys took off their shirts and wiped their faces with them, and so did I...I was told that I couldn't do that...I didn't understand why...They told me "You're a girl...Girls can't do that"...I still remember how upset I was and how unfairly I felt I was being treated...I was JUST as hot, sweaty and dirty as they were, and I ALWAYS did everything else that the guys did...I'll never forget that day...
urgeok
11-10-2006, 08:27 AM
(I was acting at the time)
.
did you know bigloader professionally ?
bloodrayne
11-10-2006, 08:27 AM
My wife is a very "Confront the situation NOW" type person. Not very many peopel like it, but I do :)Heh...We have that in common...It's a Scorpio thing ;)
And NO, people don't seem to appreciate it too much
Roderick Usher
11-10-2006, 08:30 AM
my kids are getting a different perspective on sex roles
I'm the stay-at-home dad who does all the cooking/cleaning/homework while mom works a 50 hour week
Vodstok
11-10-2006, 08:33 AM
my kids are getting a different perspective on sex roles
I'm the stay-at-home dad who does all the cooking/cleaning/homework while mom works a 50 hour week
Sounds like heaven to me :)
If we get our way and pull this off, Bree will be a cop and i will write. I have jhit a nice vein, too. i have been writing my ass of.
urgeok
11-10-2006, 08:33 AM
everything is 50/50 in our house.
but we cant control the influences outside the house.
to counter this we try to build a strong base for him.
one day he came home and said kids made fun of his winnie the pooh shirt (he was 5) and didnt want to wear it anymore. we successfully convinced him that he could like what he wanted and their opinions didnt matter (lots of adults like winnie the pooh)
it was rewarding to see that work ....
and he's applied that mind set to everything else.
he doesnt want to play with dolls - but he likes doll houses (small plastic dinosaurs need a place to live too)
he's a good healthy mix ... we're pretty proud of the way he sees the world..
urgeok
11-10-2006, 08:34 AM
I have jhit a nice vein, too. i have been writing my ass of.
shit like this makes me laugh every time ..:p :D
Vodstok
11-10-2006, 08:38 AM
shit like this makes me laugh every time ..:p :D
You act like i correct other people all the time....
urgeok
11-10-2006, 08:45 AM
You act like i correct other people all the time....
not that ..
the mistake followed by 'i've been writing my ass off'
its distantly related to : when you're flaming someone and you spell a specific word wrong .. like: 'you're dum' or 'iliterate'..
irony is funny :)
ShankS
11-10-2006, 08:48 AM
I manage quite a bunch at work, male & female ranging from early 20's upto near retirement age. Observing how differnt sexes, and ages work on their own or together in same sex or mixed groups is quite surpirsing how they interact with each other to get various jobs done.
My overall conclusions are, which apear to stem from cave men times are... females of all ages when working together or alone will be resourceful and articulate which counteracts and overcomes problems that arise, whereas males of all ages when working together or alone will spend time before carrying out a job grunting and groaning at each other, trying to decide on a common ground to get the current job done.
When females and males work together based on what jobs I give them, their teamwork is quite organised, even when I leave them be for a while. The females will keep the males organised when the males attempt to take a lead role.
But this could have differences if the males or females were working in a diffenrt environment to the one I manage them in.
urgeok
11-10-2006, 08:50 AM
I manage quite a bunch at work, male & female ranging from early 20's upto near retirement age. Observing how differnt sexes, and ages work on their own or together in same sex or mixed groups is quite surpirsing how they interact with each other to get various jobs done.
My overall conclusions are, which apear to stem from cave men times are... females of all ages when working together or alone will be resourceful and articulate which counteracts and overcomes problems that arise, whereas males of all ages when working together or alone will spend time before carrying out a job grunting and groaning at each other, trying to decide on a common ground to get the current job done.
When females and males work together based on what jobs I give them, their teamwork is quite organised, even when I leave them be for a while. The females will keep the males organised when the males attempt to take a lead role.
But this could have differences if the males or females were working in a diffenrt environment to the one I manage them in.
what kind of work are you dealing with here ?
ShankS
11-10-2006, 08:51 AM
what kind of work are you dealing with here ?
Warehouse, stock control and logistical placement.
And about the workplace.... women are real bitches when put in large groups, they don't work together, they fight for dominance, stab one another in the back and couldn't present a united front if you gave them a step-by-step manual
They would do well in the HDC Survivor game then :rolleyes:
In our house it was My mum, dad, brother and I. But we all (apart from my dad, who still doesn't know where the kitchen is or know how to use the washing machine) took their share of the work.
I can even sew, yes by hand!
urgeok
11-10-2006, 08:53 AM
Warehouse, stock control and logistical placement.
it may have a very different culture there ..
maybe the men are much more neandrathalic there :)
ShankS
11-10-2006, 08:55 AM
it may have a very different culture there ..
maybe the men are much more neandrathalic there :)
na they're just grumpy old gits :D
stygianwitch
11-10-2006, 09:11 AM
When females and males work together based on what jobs I give them, their teamwork is quite organised, even when I leave them be for a while. The females will keep the males organised when the males attempt to take a lead role.
But this could have differences if the males or females were working in a different environment to the one I manage them in.
I think this is true everywhere, perhaps because men and women think very differently... which may be due to the 'programming' we receive or may just be an instinctive thing
It has been my experience that women tend to be 'planners' always looking to the next job to be done, and the one after that, and the one... you get the idea, their minds are only 80% focussed on the job at hand...
Whereas men tend to be '100% focussed' on the here and now, giving no thought to what comes next...
If you have a team with both men and women on it then you've got a winning combination
Vodstok
11-10-2006, 09:16 AM
I think this is true everywhere, perhaps because men and women think very differently... which may be due to the 'programming' we receive or may just be an instinctive thing
It has been my experience that women tend to be 'planners' always looking to the next job to be done, and the one after that, and the one... you get the idea, their minds are only 80% focussed on the job at hand...
Whereas men tend to be '100% focussed' on the here and now, giving no thought to what comes next...
If you have a team with both men and women on it then you've got a winning combinationSounds like my marriage :)
Nikkif8
11-10-2006, 09:27 AM
Heh...We have that in common...It's a Scorpio thing ;)
And NO, people don't seem to appreciate it too much
That's odd.... MY BF is a Scorpio and he is never confrontational in anyway. I definately can be though and I am a cancer. Go figure.....We both have pinchers;)
stubbornforgey
11-10-2006, 10:47 AM
its just the way it is.
stop being a whiny bitch.. :D
seriously though..i think i saw the same documentry and i thought
..hmm how strange - i loathe shopping but..its in my gene to do so..
shrug' who am i to go against whats supposed to be :p
hitman3005
11-10-2006, 04:23 PM
If you have a team with both men and women on it then you've got a winning combination
As the Survivor game would attest;)