A question for the other writers here

[Vodstok]

Is anyone else here afflicted with the crippling "Perfect first draft"syndrome?

This is a godawful tendancy to recognize story errors AS you are writing, and getting so consumed with goign back and fixing them in the first draft, that you dont even finish it?

Now I know that the proper thing to do is write, then go back and make corrections. is this "syndrome" the result of a lazy mind? like i could somehow get it right the first time and never have to do a rewrite? I also know that is a great way to give your carreer a massive gunshot wound to the head before it even gets going.

Personally, i think this is worse than writer's block. Its not even the inability to get a cohesive idea, its having the idea, through completeion, but holding yourself back unnecesarily by getting mucked up in useless details.

I bring this up becaus ei am writing a story right now where i am gettingout only half of what i want to say, but i am gettingout a framework of what i want, puttingin to paper (so to speak) and actually WRITING, and now i am doing the proper thing and moving forward, and it is DRIVING ME NUTS!!!!

It's like asking someone with OCD not to line up the toothpicks on the table....

[tic]

Yes, I suffer from Perfect Draft Syndrome, I tend to spend too much on the research part and end up with a different story than I began with.

The word-processor doesn't help either - can't decide if it is UK English or US English, so spend hours checking and re-checking spelling, it's amazing how many times the "ignore" function is used.

I also suffer from Can't Be Bothered Syndrome as well. It's a killer.

[Vodstok]

yeah, overthinking is death... You talk yourself into a corner, then never write anything...

This si why i am in mute awe of Rod. (man, that sounds so wrong...) Where i think and imagine, he is doing. drives me nuts.

[The Flayed One]

I force myself to keep going until the first draft is done. I won't even let myself correct gramatical or spelling errors. My problem is going back and then doing the second draft, because I'm lazy.

[AmericanManiac]

I'm with you VOD, Everytime I start to write I always go back and fix words or add in new ideas. Like this one I am writing now I have been doing it for about 2 months, and I only have 12 pages. I think this is because I want it to be perfect, I know its a rough draft but damn is it killing my brain. I even tried using "The Web" I always tend to find my self in the opposite direction though. Heres a little advice "You are your own, worset critic"

[Vodstok]

very true AM. Im getting better. i am on page 4 right now and have been writing for about 30 minutes so far, so that is promising...

[tic]

You're lucky, the most I got to was page 12 and then the "Syndrome" took effect.

Scrapped all of it as it was going in the completely wrong direction, with new characters joining in from nowhere.

Aaaaahhhhh. I'm getting less hair day by day.

[Roderick Usher]

No.

and this is why.

If something isn't working by page 20 (3-4 days in), it's the wrong idea and I move on.

And my partner and I handle drafts this way:

Come up with a loose story and tight characters, people you understand before the first word is written, then place them in the middle of a story and let them dictate the action.

1st draft, from the gut & groin - fast, sloppy and passionate

2nd Draft from the heart - make sure characters speak, act and react appropriately for their situation

3rd Draft and beyond is head work - this is where spelling, punctuation, sentence structure and the "nuts and bolts" of the craft is applied.

Thinking a first draft should come out perfect is unrealistic and thinking your first draft IS perfect is delusional.

A writer writes.

Writing is rewriting.

Hope this helps.

[Phalanx]

Is anyone else here afflicted with the crippling "Perfect first draft"syndrome
I know it's not really the same kind of writing you're referring to, but as you know, I wrote recipes...and when I get 'em out (eg - the stuff I submitted to TVG), they flow beggining to end, so yeah, this happens to me constantly.
It happens again when I improve on things, or make changes.
But, the fact is, it spends most of it's time going back and forth in my head.
Nothing I can do about it. When I want it done, it has to be right, by my means...takes a while.
I can see writers going through the same, if not more.
Think on it, notepads...etc. My only suggestion.

[Haunted]

Thank you, Rod, that's some good advice.

First Draft Syndrome is a growing problem among writers. It can strike at any age and does not diferentiate between gender and content. Any writer can become afflicted with FDS. Be aware of the following symptoms

Banging the keyboard
Starting your project over more than twice
Staring at the screen, usually at one paragraph for more than five minutes
Pacing while muttering character conversations for more than an hour

If you have two or more of the symptoms you may have FDS.

Jeezus pleezus, I have started my shit over a million times. One author told me to think of it in the sense of writing essays, because that's something I can nail. When you write an essay, it's not always a good idea to write your thesis/intro paragraph first, because theorectically, you have a vague idea about your topic, but you don't know exactly where you're going to end up. So, she told me, write all over the place (You can't do that in an actually essay or thesis paper or report). You can write out different character dialouge sessions, and then sort of put it all together like a puzzle.

I think you have to find your[I]own[I] techniques to figure out what works best. I've been told that there really isn't any such thing as writer's block rather it's just a sort an obstacle that you learn to develope techniques to overcome, a sort of rerouting or rewiring.

[Vodstok]

No.

and this is why.

If something isn't working by page 20 (3-4 days in), it's the wrong idea and I move on.

And my partner and I handle drafts this way:

Come up with a loose story and tight characters, people you understand before the first word is written, then place them in the middle of a story and let them dictate the action.

1st draft, from the gut & groin - fast, sloppy and passionate

2nd Draft from the heart - make sure characters speak, act and react appropriately for their situation

3rd Draft and beyond is head work - this is where spelling, punctuation, sentence structure and the "nuts and bolts" of the craft is applied.

Thinking a first draft should come out perfect is unrealistic and thinking your first draft IS perfect is delusional.

A writer writes.

Writing is rewriting.

Hope this helps.

I figured you would weigh in :)

And it always helps. Two people really light a fire under my ass when it comes to writing, my wife and Rod. I think you make the dream more real, which helps a LOT. Plus first hand advice from a pro is always a good thing.

I have found that skipping the "i need to do one more thing before is start" thing just doesnt work. i just hit the ground running now, start writing and let the ideas pour out of my head. i figure, it WILL be messy, so i will egt some bounty and clean it up later.

i never realized how much philosophy went into this. Even with posts, Im on page 5 now. Good fight scene, right form the get go. I htink one of my major problems has to do with something you (Rod) seem to have pointed out as oneof my strong points; Pacing. I can feel a goo dflow when i write, and when it is right, it's like sliding down a snowy slope on Clark W Griswold's preservative, i cant stop.



but if something feels off with the flow, i have a hard timeignoring it and pushing forward. a nice thing about being older, though, is having the discipline (finally) to just say "i have to do this."

[Roderick Usher]

I've been told that there really isn't any such thing as writer's block rather it's just a sort an obstacle that you learn to develope techniques to overcome, a sort of rerouting or rewiring.

Agree 100% Haunted.

I've had trouble writing before, but it only really occurs when I'm trying too hard to please some imaginary audience. If I write what I like, what I want to see, what I think is entertaining, the words tend to flow.

If a story becomes stuck - it's probably because it wasn't meant to be. I don't hold any of it precious.

As I said to a producer asking me to implement some really stupid ideas into a SciFi Channel script, "Sure, they're just words. There's only so many of them. I'll put 'em in any order you want." (muttering "jackass" under breath)

[Haunted]

Though I love writing fiction, and I really think that I have a good plotline, I think I'm going to turn the proverbial pen towards a higher cause. I want to start journalism, particularly for and in the activism realm. There's not a lot of money however...

My first attempt is after Solstice (Christmas for some), with Defenders of the Wildlife. They've already told me that they need me, but I need go through the channels. I want to write, educate, and endorse activism for all wildlife, particularly the endangered, however, I'm most dedicated to wolves of all types, red, gray, etc. I have been since I was a small child; I've always hated the story "Little Red Riding Hood."

I'm very good at nonfiction/journalism types of writing. In all truth, that's probably my strongest writing ability outside of poetry. I think I need to develope more patience for fiction.

Rod, do you mind, just so I can get it off of my chest, if I PM you, one artiste:p (all sarcasm directed at me) to another, my fiction concept. That way, if it's shit, I can toss it. If it's not, I'll write notes when they come, dialouge as it comes, but dedicate myself to my cause for the most part. (Let the book(s) sort of brew;) )

[neverending]

Thinking a first draft should come out perfect is unrealistic and thinking your first draft IS perfect is delusional.

A writer writes.

Writing is rewriting.

Hope this helps.

Harlan Ellison has been known to say he NEVER rewrites- unless he's forced by a producer or something.

But then again, none of us are Harlan Ellison.

[tic]

Though I love writing fiction, and I really think that I have a good plotline, I think I'm going to turn the proverbial pen towards a higher cause. I want to start journalism, particularly for and in the activism realm. There's not a lot of money however...

My first attempt is after Solstice (Christmas for some), with Defenders of the Wildlife. They've already told me that they need me, but I need go through the channels. I want to write, educate, and endorse activism for all wildlife, particularly the endangered, however, I'm most dedicated to wolves of all types, red, gray, etc. I have been since I was a small child; I've always hated the story "Little Red Riding Hood."

I'm very good at nonfiction/journalism types of writing. In all truth, that's probably my strongest writing ability outside of poetry. I think I need to develope more patience for fiction.

Rod, do you mind, just so I can get it off of my chest, if I PM you, one artiste:p (all sarcasm directed at me) to another, my fiction concept. That way, if it's shit, I can toss it. If it's not, I'll write notes when they come, dialouge as it comes, but dedicate myself to my cause for the most part. (Let the book(s) sort of brew;) )

I love wolves too. While studying at university (Environmental Science) a topic I wrote about concerned the naturalisation and re-establishment of wildlife into areas where they now have become extinct, namely Britain; it covered quite a large and diverse number of animal species, one of which was the Grey Wolf, as part of the topic I had to give the reason why the animal became extinct, not surprisingly Man was the cause. In parts of britain it was considered a "sport" to kill wolves and there where special days where wolves were slaughtered. Even now in parts of Europe, the wolf is not protected enough, so that killings are common place.

Anyway all I was going to say was I wish you well in trying to help these magnificent animals.

Didn't mean to hijack the thread, sorry.

[Roderick Usher]

Harlan Ellison has been known to say he NEVER rewrites- unless he's forced by a producer or something.

But then again, none of us are Harlan Ellison.


Like Mozart - the exception that proves the rule!:)

[newb]

The Perfect Draught

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2004/06/29/rhs_beer200.jpg



oh c'mon.....you didn't expect anything else from me.....didja?

[Vodstok]

The Perfect Draught

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2004/06/29/rhs_beer200.jpg



oh c'mon.....you didn't expect anything else from me.....didja?

yeah, but probably not the first ;)

[Roderick Usher]

The Perfect Draught

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2004/06/29/rhs_beer200.jpg



oh c'mon.....you didn't expect anything else from me.....didja?

a nice tall pint of inspiration!

yeah, the whole "writers are drunks" cliche...bought that one hook, line and drinker:D

[Vodstok]

a nice tall pint of inspiration!

yeah, the whole "writers are drunks" cliche...bought that one hook, line and drinker:D

God Bless Ernest Hemmingway for setting the bar sooo low :)

If we dont blow ou brains out, we're doing better than Hemmingway!

[Roderick Usher]

Amen to that one, Brother.

My wife's already preparing for my innevitable emotional collapse...

It's awesome. It's like having a free pass:)