The New Classic Monster ?

[urgeok]

I was musing this morning about how we never see new monsters, just variations on the same ones over and over again.

The Devil
Vampires
Man Made Monsters (Frankenstein)
Shapeshifters (Wolfman)
Nature Gone Wild (Godzilla)

then i though - there is a new one that has emerged in the last 30 years .. The Serial Killer (Man)

I know they exist in real life ...
but there are very few - and compared to their fictional counterparts in print and film ... pretty uninteresting. lonely cowardly losers. Kill 2 or 3 people tops.

I dont want to downplay any senseless death of an innocent by a predator - no matter how pathetic that predator is .

I'm just making a comparrison to the typical real life serial murderer .. and those of which we find in novels, films. and TV series.

If you are into genre escapism you've probably been exposed to dozens if nut hundreds of examples of books or films where there are elaborate plots by clever genius mastermind serial killers - and special divisions in law enforcement dedicated to stopping them - like it's an every day occurance.

i know this seems like an obvious point i'm making but the more i thought about it - the more a bigger truth - or idea - started to emerge. It began to occur to me that pop culture has made the 'serial killer' the new classical monster for our times. One people will buy into more readily too because of the 'based on reality' approach.
(despite the super human strength/intelligence the killers posses ... their crazy ass motives - the immaculate timing for the series of events that must take place for the story to work or be interesting)

I dunno - maybe its a non point ... but i can see a new mythos developing around this ...

anyone else see what i'm getting at ?

[Vodstok]

I think i do. the interesting thing is that the average "serial killer" in a movie isnt even a serial killer by definition, they are more of a spree killer. Jason and Michael Meyers are both spree killers.

Freddy is definately a serial killer, but kills in sprees also.

I do think that they are a new "monster". Slasher isnt just a movie type, it's usually used to describe the individual in the movie.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by Vodstok
I think i do. the interesting thing is that the average "serial killer" in a movie isnt even a serial killer by definition, they are more of a spree killer. Jason and Michael Meyers are both spree killers.

Freddy is definately a serial killer, but kills in sprees also.

I do think that they are a new "monster". Slasher isnt just a movie type, it's usually used to describe the individual in the movie.


i'm not thinking about the slasher guys ..
i'm thinking about the thomas harris characters, the thriller novels, not horror .. there are tons of authors that only write in this genre (patterson/cornwell,etc etc)

the guy from Se7en ... etc etc ..

[azathoth777]

Serial Killers in general have become a part of the pop culture . Books on them are very popular, there are trading card, websites, magaizes, etc.....dedicated to them. People marrying them in jail. Since the early 90s they have gained a wide spread 'cult' following. It's not quite as insistant now as it was in the mid to late 90s, but it's still there.

[Vodstok]

Originally posted by urgeok
i'm not thinking about the slasher guys ..
i'm thinking about the thomas harris characters, the thriller novels, not horror .. there are tons of authors that only write in this genre (patterson/cornwell,etc etc)

the guy from Se7en ... etc etc .. Ah, i see.

It is understandable, as you stated, why they are so complex in books and movies. the movies made of real serial killers are boring because they are people, and people's lives are dull.


regarding what azathoth said, i specifically refrain from writing baout living serial killer son my site. i dont want any opf those tools thinking i am glorifying them in any way. And getting married?
What the hell is that? They should be denied the most basic of human comforts, let alone the perks of being free. As far as im concerned, they cant be married. unless they want to be. Then hook them up with a 350 lb convict named francine with bad hygene.

[urgeok]

yeah its part of the pop culture ... and it may always be there .. but i see it becoming an entity like the vampire or wolfman..

I'm speaking specifically of FICTIONAL serial killers here

they have certain rules :

- the killings must be elaborate and act out something meaningful
- there will be a clue left to taunt the investigators
- the killer is super intelligent
- the killer has amazing timing and access to anything he/she wants
- the killer has had a run in with one particular investigator years ago and holds a grudge ... and will only deal with/taunt that person. the whole motive for all the killings might just be to get back at this person.

you see/read enough of these things and you see a pattern .. the formula.

it becomes very similar to the rules that go with the other classical monsters..

[Miss Olivia]

It's because people aren't afraid of the monster in the closet anymore, now they're afraid of the monster who lives in the apartment below them. I've met a lot of people who have no fear of the traditional monster because "there's no such thing," but will talk all night about Charles Speck or Richard Ramirez. It seems like there's a loss of imagination in general among the majority of people, especially the ones under thirty five.
Give me a good old werewolf or science experiment gone wrong any day....at least you can shoot them with a silver bullet or fry them in a vat of acid....with the human atrocities, the punishment doesn't usually fit the crime.
"Oh, you tortured and killed children? You must be crazy, let's put you in a box with hot food and a t.v. so you don't do it anymore. At least until your fourth parole hearing."

[The STE]

Originally posted by urgeok
- the killer has had a run in with one particular investigator years ago and holds a grudge ... and will only deal with/taunt that person. the whole motive for all the killings might just be to get back at this person.

That always pissed me off and I'm really happy that Se7en didn't go that route

[Vodstok]

- the killer has had a run in with one particular investigator years ago and holds a grudge ... and will only deal with/taunt that person. the whole motive for all the killings might just be to get back at this person.
soo... you liked the bone collector then?


:D

I actually did, but more because Anjelina Jolie reminds me of my Bree in it. especially the look she gives the other cop when he makes the crack about wanting to take the breif case full of drugs.

both are good looking women that can give th emost EVIL looks... it's very hot...

okay, serial killers...

Yeah John Doe is by far and away my favorite. The acting and direction in Se7en are by far some of the best in anything that would qualify as a horror. Plus, it starts with Nine INch Nails and ends with David Bowie. Cant beat that :)

[urgeok]

Originally posted by Vodstok
soo... you liked the bone collector then?



god no i really hated it ...

i was so sick of these things by the time i saw it ...

[novakru]

How about taking the theme in 'Unbreakable' to the next level?
I am sure that if you twisted up enough hero/anti-hero characters with the horror pacing you could actually come up with something somewhat original?

I think maybe I lost your point there urge.....:D

[urgeok]

Originally posted by novakru

I think maybe I lost your point there urge.....:D


thats ok, i didnt really expect it to go anywhere .. just 'thinking out loud'

[The Demeter]

I always thought that the concept of Phantasm brought us a new horror Icon that didnt really fit into any of those categories.

[crabapple]

I loved the first "Phantasm" especially, and I think if that had been a more solid series of films, the world would be a better place. The news about the "new series" of Phantasm films New Line is planning turned me off at first until I read that Coscarelli is involved as a producer, and that they are conceiving of these as "BIG" horror films with an epic story arc and with Mike as the "Luke Skywalker of horror" which I assume means that he first appears as a hero who presumably could conquer the evil and later we find that he is part of it, born of it in some way.

The thing about the serial killer mythos trend, and this is just my silly opinion, but the thing about it is that it signals to me that moviegoers are fixating on boring entertainment that sort of copies itself. I freaking can't stand any of these idiot serial killer movies. I don't care!!!!! I don't see a commercial for the newest thing and say "Hot damn, a new serial killer movie is out! Gotta go see that so I can be horrified by the clever contraptions and brilliant plans of the new Hannibal Lecter!" Please, this trend sucks!

Seven I liked, and Silence of the Lambs I liked, but after that the serial killer movies have become carbon copies, not terribly unlike the slasher clones that followed in the wake of Halloween...yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm ignoring the "Psycho and giallo" discussion, but again, this is just my silly wacky opinion. But could it be that audiences increasingly seek entertainment that requires no imagination on the part of the viewer?

[The Demeter]

Wow! You really took the words right out of my mouth about the whole serial killer thing. You have support!

[crabapple]

Hey, let's start a "Serial Killer Movies Really Suck, A Lot!" thread. Hell, a website.

[novakru]

Originally posted by crabapple
I loved the first "Phantasm" especially, and I think if that had been a more solid series of films, the world would be a better place. The news about the "new series" of Phantasm films New Line is planning turned me off at first until I read that Coscarelli is involved as a producer, and that they are conceiving of these as "BIG" horror films with an epic story arc and with Mike as the "Luke Skywalker of horror" which I assume means that he first appears as a hero who presumably could conquer the evil and later we find that he is part of it, born of it in some way.

The thing about the serial killer mythos trend, and this is just my silly opinion, but the thing about it is that it signals to me that moviegoers are fixating on boring entertainment that sort of copies itself. I freaking can't stand any of these idiot serial killer movies. I don't care!!!!! I don't see a commercial for the newest thing and say "Hot damn, a new serial killer movie is out! Gotta go see that so I can be horrified by the clever contraptions and brilliant plans of the new Hannibal Lecter!" Please, this trend sucks!

Seven I liked, and Silence of the Lambs I liked, but after that the serial killer movies have become carbon copies, not terribly unlike the slasher clones that followed in the wake of Halloween...yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm ignoring the "Psycho and giallo" discussion, but again, this is just my silly wacky opinion. But could it be that audiences increasingly seek entertainment that requires no imagination on the part of the viewer?


Sometimes you make so much sense,it's scary....but anyway-to your question about audiences seeking brain-dead entertainment?
That can go both ways:
On the one hand our society is very stressful...yes,we do not have to worry about making fire from scratch,where our next meal is coming from-if it's even coming and the fact that we might get eaten by something with large smelly teeth-BUT,today's world we have more stuff ...just MORE STUFF and it would really,really suck if we got shot on the highway.
So coming home and watching a bland carbon copy mind-numbing horror flick is a very cozy way to spend a coupla hours.
So,an audience will go see the non-imagination movie,hence-they make money,so why not make 15 other movies that have the same plot but different title? As long as Hiershel gets rich, why should he care or waste time on something that is truly a Scary Original Movie??
Yes,it's all our fault there are crappy horror out there BUT on the other hand...
I do think there are enough of us out here that really dig the intelligent,well thought-out,nicely paced,make you piss your pants horror and ,Thank The Lord, they do get made from time to time:) Yeah,ok,rarely...
But I am riding on the high of seeing a good horror flick just recently so I can afford to be optimistic.

If you could just get all horror fans to unite and boycott .....LOL,oh wait,I just forgot where I was...NM:D

[Miss Olivia]

Mindless movies are nice sometimes, like eating at McDonald's.
Of course, if you ate McDonald's all the time you would die, and if you watched dumb movies all the time your imagination would die.....so I guess dumb movies are like anything else....use in moderation.

[crabapple]

Sounds like reasonable advice to me.

[The Demeter]

I would love to have an anti-serial killer movie thread or websight. I already boycott them, unfortunatly its seems that a lot of others who are desperately seeking to be knowen as a horror fan, flock to them in great numbers and pretend to like them. Please, nobody support them!

[urgeok]

i will say an interesting varient on the genre is Suspect Zero.
it delivers beyong the average serial killer movie.



anyway - my initial point wasnt to condemn or condone these movies .. i dont like them in particular myself ... but its a very popular genre that has taken on a life of its own .. propelling the 'genius serial killer' into a monster entity of its own for our times ... at least thats the feeling i get.

time will tell i guess.




as far as origional monsters .. yes i agree phantasm had a unique spin .. and the other was the guy in jeepers creepers ... like the movies or not - he was at least a new bread of critter.

[The Demeter]

Jeepers Creepers was awful, but I watched it a couple of times anyways because he was a new monster. Glad that someone else was able to appriciate that.

[crabapple]

I think there is also a factor that I will call "Lazy Suspension of Disbelief."

Serial killers really exist in real life + they are horrifying. Therefore, as opposed to a fantasy character like Freddy Krueger or Zombie Jason, less effort has to be expended to "sell" the idea that the bad guy is real.

This works in two clever ways. First, the writer doesn't have to try very hard to convince the audience that the threat is something plausible. Second, the audience doesn't have to work very hard to believe the threat is plausible. So, this serial killer mythos encourages laziness on both sides of the coin.

This is just a rant, my opinion means nothing, I just wanted to ramble on about how bored I am with the typical product from this subgenre.

[novakru]

Originally posted by urgeok
i will say an interesting varient on the genre is Suspect Zero.
it delivers beyong the average serial killer movie.

Oh man!
I totally forgot about this movie!
It was stunning and very much underrated IMO.
Has to be the epitome of serial killer movies.
#1 without a doubt.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by crabapple
IThis works in two clever ways. First, the writer doesn't have to try very hard to convince the audience that the threat is something plausible. Second, the audience doesn't have to work very hard to believe the threat is plausible. So, this serial killer mythos encourages laziness on both sides of the coin.




true true ..

and an even more disturbing thought : i think exposure to these things leave people under the impression that they're somehow more 'in the know' (touches nose) - up on the inner secret workings of the police business...

[The Mothman]

your forgetting the best 2, zombies and aliens.

[CrimsonFiend138]

Very good point, Alien always scared me. I love slasher movies, I agree that slasher movies AND most movies nowadays are not that good.

My favorite is Halloween and I love the series. I think Movies like Friday the 13th and Nightmare on Elm Street are great to watch.

I don't nag about whats boring or not I watch it and if I like it then hey I like it, It doesn't necessarily need a golden plot.

And on the zombies I agree also, I love zombie movies.

[urgeok]

what do the last 2 posts have to do with anything ?? :confused:

[Miss Olivia]

Those posts made the perfect point....short attention spans are a necessity of the Hollywood movie machine.


And I love zombies and aliens too.

[crabapple]

Me too! Yeah! I like zombies and also vampires. Give me those oldies but goodies.

Back to that serial killer movie thing: You could call the relationship between the writer and the audience a Symbiotic Stupidity Relationship because each encourages the other to be stupid, and each feeds off of the other's stupidity.

The Serial Killer of the movies is like a comedy writer--endless variations of "creativity" (if you want to call it that) but the output is one basic product.

[CrimsonFiend138]

Like my friend, he doesn't care if it's a "funny ass" movie or a "scary ass" movie, Like he liked Excorcism of Emily Rose which, I'll be truthful I haven't seen much of it, but of what I did see I thought it looked stupid.

It is not just the slasher films, to me it would be a film like, Emily Rose, or White Noise, which I became disgusted with after I had seen it.

Bottom line is that movies now a days are crap, people cared, people like us but now it is just America, trying to get an hour and a half gorefest Blah.

Frankenstein's Monster RULES

[Roderick Usher]

While going to college in Milwaukee (Marquette U) I lived 3 blocks from Dahmer.

Needless to say, I'm quite interested in serial killer movies. Looking forward to ZODIAC from Fincher.

[Vodstok]

Originally posted by Roderick Usher
While going to college in Milwaukee (Marquette U) I lived 3 blocks from Dahmer.

Needless to say, I'm quite interested in serial killer movies. Looking forward to ZODIAC from Fincher. I would be interested in "Wendy's: The Dave Thomas story, Tale of a fat guy who couldnt remember his commercial lines" if David Fincher directed it.

It would be dark, and would probably feature a score by Trent Reznor. Brad Pitt would probably work Drive Through.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by Vodstok
I would be interested in "Wendy's: The Dave Thomas story,



dont laugh - i have his book :D



re serial killers .. the only interest I have in them is knowing they're dead.

pathetic cowardly chicken shit looser scumbags.

[Miss Olivia]

I don't understand why they refuse to make executions public. Even pay-per-view would work.
I think the French had the right idea.