Is the genre dying?

[_____V_____]

In my reply to one of the other threads, I mentioned about recent horror movies not being scary. Now a horror movie is supposed to scare, but honestly saying in recent times, which movie has had that effect?

The Ring and Ju-On maybe...but those are japanese offerings...hence the intrusion of japanese horror into mainstream cinema and acceptance of em by the horror-movie-starved people like us...

But look at the bigger picture. Most supposedly masters of horror movie-making have either hit a dead end or are waning...Each movie and each movie-maker is a fine example (choose anyone)...

Jason and Freddy managed to scare portions of the teenage audience, but when combined together in a movie, they lost that scary touch...the main reason being they gunning for each other's throats...same with Aliens vs Predator...the whole "versus" thing maybe good for the box-office and commercialisation of horror icons...but in terms of scares, a big downslide...

I remember the original Alien...the long dark silhouetted spaceship, brooding gloomy corridors, terrified crew, and an unknown creature aboard which could be anywhere, even over your head, the howling wind on the Alien planet...now AvP, where the audience isnt scared of the Alien anymore...

The Shining, Exorcist, TCM, Halloween, Friday the 13th...all nerve-janglers, all making you jump outta your seats...*sigh*...

If the makers are hellbent on killing the genre, then they are doing a fine job of it. Tobe Hooper went down, John Carpenter followed, and people like James Cameron, Ridley Scott and Quentin Tarantino wont even touch horror (I loved "From Dusk Till Dawn").

New movie makers arent scared of experimenting, like the recent "Jeepers Creepers", "Saw" and "Silent Hill" (although its a movie adapted from a game but still scary in parts)...but movies like the Blade series (which made vampires look like lame cattle fodder), Underworld (vampires vs werewolves, yet nothing scary about it), remakes of old horror classics which dont scare enough like the originals...makes me wonder when is the next full-fledged horror movie coming out which will make it into the top 10 of every ardent horror fan like me out there?

I feel like sitting beside the comatose body of "The Horror Genre" at an ICU, thinking if it can be revived back or should we resign and call the coffin-makers and the church for funeral services?

[urgeok]

in all fairness i think the average horro fan who's been around is pretty jaded and desensitized. You scare people by suprising them, jumping out and shocking - with the help of the music score.
once you've seen 10 horror films you've seen just about every trick in the book .. we know what to expect.

i abandoned the idea of being scred over 20 years ago and just enjoy a film (if it's well made) for the other offerings (decent story, good performances, fin FX, cinematography..etc)

occasionally something will be well done enough to make me jump ... but scared - not a chance.

Thats why you see mainly young kids or people new to the genre who can still get scared in a horror film, even though most of us think its crap... and good for them - enjoy it while it lasts.

its not a macho thing - not being scared - its just overexposure and getting to the unfortunate point where you are never again able to lose the concious awareness that 'its only a movie - with actors - on sets'

[_____V_____]

Maybe thats one of the reasons why the horror movies have lost their "jump-outta-chairs" touch. Hardcore horror fans have watched so many flicks with all the variations of stories the human minds can cook, that each new movie is unconsciously compared to the ones gone by, and similarities between them dampen the enthusiasm. Add to it incompetency of the script-writers, bad directors, shoddy lighting and sound effects, and you got a suckass movie.

"That one didnt make me feel scared"
"I didnt jump off my chair"
"I have seen that sequence in another movie"
"story is much like this other one I had seen awhile back".....

common lines now for the horror movie buff who's been to the theaters for the past 25-30 years, watching movies and more movies...now in the privacy of the home with cable and CDs and DVDs available at the call...

Is there anything left in the tank? Or has it been used up so much that now its just running on fumes? Exploited over and over again to the extent that nothing except a dry,shrivelled and ugly piece remains of what once was a fresh, bright and ripe genre...

[Yellow Jacket]

I never go into a horror movie looking to be scared. There have only been two movies that have scared me (not including Son of the Mask, because that's for different reasons), and they are The Omen and The Exorcist. Sure, I jolt every now and then when a "boo" scare, as I like to call them, comes out in a movie. But, that's just because of the loud sound it portrays. So, technically, I'm not scared. I've said this my whole three years of horror watching, and I don't have a problem saying it again and again.

[Miss Olivia]

Yeah, I'd say the next horror movie that has any chance at all of scaring me is Cthulu with Tori Spelling.....unfortunately I'll be afraid for all the wrong reasons....:(

[_____V_____]

So many movies in recent times have held promise but failed to captivate the thinking fan. We all still stick to old favs, although some new ones might signal the revival of the genre again. Its imperative that new horror icons are established. The Creeper, Jigsaw, Pyramid Head etc. can be frontrunners...

Hopefully Cthulhu will be another...

[Yellow Jacket]

Originally posted by _____V_____
So many movies in recent times have held promise but failed to captivate the thinking fan.

Sounds like The Ring to me.

[The_Return]

Originally posted by Yellow Jacket
Sounds like The Ring to me.

What kind of promise did that have? The premise is right up there with a bad 80's slasher, the actors are awful...blah. I havent bothered to see the original just because of the terrible plot. Promise? It promised to be terrible.

[ItsAlive75]

I think the world's a much scarier place than it used to be. Old horror is "better" because the audience that watched it wasn't as desensitized to seeing horrible things on a daily basis.

For God's sake, we can watch beheadings of real people on the fucking internet. A kid can see that any time he or she wants. How's a guy in make-up with a knife gonna compete with the thousands out there that are really doing it?

I dunno, we're all pretty jaded now. That's why movies are aimed at the Mtv crowd, the 14 year old babysitters who don't watch the news or read the newspaper... "When a Stranger Calls", "Darkness"... all those kinds of movies that provide scares for kids that can still be frightened. The rest of us... we're all just looking for a good movie.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by ItsAlive75
I think the world's a much scarier place than it used to be. Old horror is "better" because the audience that watched it wasn't as desensitized to seeing horrible things on a daily basis.



thats one of the biggest things ..

the evening news is far more terrifying than any creature feature any day.

[kung-fu-jesus]

i dont think that its just the horror genre that is dead, damn near all genres are dying if not all ready dead.

forr example how many time have we seen bullettime effects int the last 5 years. or how many movies have you gone to and half way through the film you guessed the ending and were right.

the things just keep repeating cause after 60' some years of film the idea well has run dryer than hell, and that is dry.

also how you said that underworld wasnt scary, it wasnt horror it was gothic action. just because a film has supernatural creatures( vampires, ghost, werewolfs, demons, ect:) dosnt mean it is sopsed to be scary.

also we as movie buff's( horror or otherwise) we tend to expect to much. wether we get over hyped from previews or review. we go and see something that is a good film but because of over advertising and false advertising( how many times have you seen something in a trailer, went and saw the film and it wasnt in the film) it fell shourt of our expectations.

also the fact that we are a jaded and desensitized society as a whole it takes an extreamly brutal, violent, horrific, or just fucked up thing to truly effect us and make us feel.

as for the little teen's in the audience that jump at the least scary thing. chances are they dont know true horror or tragity( many thing classify). so they tking it is scary while we sit in the back row thinking there is something wrong with the picture because we wernt scared.

i as a person dont watch horror to be scared or that i love fear, to me there just fun. the dont have to be realistic or scary. they just need to entertain you for about 2 hours. they tend to lighten the mood. they show you the other sides of people when confronted with an obstical that you hope you neveer run into yourself.

[urgeok]

i'd have to disagree with all genres being dead ... there have been some pretty amusing comedies lately .. there are a talented bunch of funny people getting regular work ..

there hasnt been much in the way of sci-fi which is a shame .. but there never was much pure sci-fi .. it was always action or horror related.
in the recent past you'd see a big sci-fi movie come out and it would be followed buy a slew of others hoping to cash in on the momentum of the 1st .. but even thats not happening now.

i think they are probably the most expensive movies to make, with the smallest audience (most women HATE sci-fi)

Horror will always have a bigger audience than sci-fi ... but i still say that home video (which took the focus off quality filmmaking) did more to harm that genre than any of the others.

[_____V_____]

Most genres are not dead, esp not Action or Comedy. There are several movies recently which have come to show that those 2 genres are the ones pulling Friday Box-Office forward. If one goes to check the top 10 each week for the past 4-5 years, that would be ample evidence.

The Matrix series, Spiderman 1 & 2, X-Men series, et al have come and redefined the action genre immensely. So did There's Something About Mary, Liar Liar, American Pie series etc. pull the comedy front forward. Actually, most movies termed as successful at the box-office in recent years have been either Action or Comedy.

Sci-Fi suffered setbacks on many fronts. The Star Wars prequels didnt do as well as everyone expected, although it managed to satisfy George Lucas's creative expertise and hardcore star-wars fans. The Matrix series could be termed sci-fi, but for most people out there they would always be categorised as Action first, Sci-Fi later.

So much so, that sci-fi is now blended with action and horror genres to be successful. I dont recall seeing a pure sci-fi movie in a longass while, last one being maybe "A.I." by Steven Spielberg...heck thats been awhile back alrite...

MI:3 takes top spot this weekend over the rest. Says something for the Action genre...

[Yellow Jacket]

Originally posted by The_Return
What kind of promise did that have? The premise is right up there with a bad 80's slasher, the actors are awful...blah. I havent bothered to see the original just because of the terrible plot. Promise? It promised to be terrible.

When I say promised (for The Ring's sake), I meant it looked promising, but the movie ended up being shit!

[urgeok]

the Ring was a good movie ..

the ring II was garbage.



whats not to like about the 1st Ring ??

[Yellow Jacket]

Originally posted by urgeok
the Ring was a good movie ..

the ring II was garbage.



whats not to like about the 1st Ring ??

First off, it was overrated. Secondly, it had a horrible, dumb plot (and I usually fall for that shit). I mean, who the fuck is afraid of a girl walking out of a video tape?!? I'd just smack the bitch and throw her back into the watery pits of her well a.k.a. her Home Sweet Home. Or, I'd just stop watching the damn video! And, when I got the "seven days" call, I'd just say "Yeah, well you're going to die in seven days" or some other smart-ass remark. It was boring, stupid, and very laughable (and I mean that in a bad way). Compared to the sequel, it does look like a classic. Too bad that's not saying much.

[urgeok]

overrated ... thats a pretty weird critique when you think of it ..

what you're suggesting is that all the people who liked it - are wrong. thats not possible for anyone else to say really.

i may have said it in the past but not now because a short while ago i realized that its a non-statement.


The Ring was a well acted, stylish, well made ghost story.

as gar as 'slapping the ghost around ... ahh .. yeah...


i didnt find it boring, i didnt find it stupid, and had none of the usual horror cliches that i would have found laughable..

I enjoued the '7 days' plot .. the mysterious video and phone bit .. the blend of classic ghosts and modern technology ..
I bought into the suspense of the race against time to solve the mystery ...the solution to save her son ...

this movie had more going for it than most 20 american slasher films combined.

it was also one of the most influencial horror movies in years (by way of the Japanese origional)

....but thats just my rating ....



:cool:

[Yellow Jacket]

Originally posted by urgeok
overrated ... thats a pretty weird critique when you think of it ..

what you're suggesting is that all the people who liked it - are wrong. thats not possible for anyone else to say really.

I'm not saying that people are wrong for their opinions. A lot of movies can be declared overrated. That basically means though a lot of people enjoyed it, I found nothing to like from the movie, especially the other people's likings of the film. That doesn't mean they're wrong, it just means I'm not agreeing with them. I still respect their opinion. Back me up here Return. You're good at this stuff.

[Miss Olivia]

Well, the old maxim applies: Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one....some of them are widely shared and some of them stink.....and some of them get pissed on.....

[_____V_____]

The Ring definitely held promise, with an original concept. The story may not be a believable one but many horror classics have been based on unbelievable premises. The end-product was a well-thought, nicely-directed and enjoyable flick.

It did have its weak points though. And pt.2 flushed it down the drain quick. Tamara could have been the next cult icon but now most of us have already forgotten her...

Like I have always believed "Watch it to enjoy it. If its good, it'll have a re-run on your player. If not, into the attic with it!"

[urgeok]

Originally posted by Yellow Jacket
I'm not saying that people are wrong for their opinions. A lot of movies can be declared overrated. That basically means though a lot of people enjoyed it, I found nothing to like from the movie, especially the other people's likings of the film.


so what you meant to say was : you personally didnt see in it what many other people did ..
not that it was overrated ...


i think some things earn the title of 'overrated when they are adored by people who arent knowledgeable to form a proper opinion because they dont have enough history of experience to base their own opinions on.

i'll use The Tiranic for that ...
the great unwashed flocked to this film because they were told to .. by shows on the level of 'entertainment tonight' (owned by the same studios that make the films)

most serious film critics that actually studied film, understand it ... watch LOTS of it .. saw Titanic for the bloated corn filled stool that it was.

but you could still apply my origional point of view to this - because it is subjective - and if you like something - then you like it.

i will say that my tastes have changed in time .. due to exposure, maturing, the gathering of far more information, experience, and understanding than i had than when i was a youngster ...

so i'm now basing my likes and dislikes (conciously or subconciously) on more refined criteria.

i'll probably have different opinions again 20 years from now .. things i think are genious now may be unwatchable then.
(bifocals or not :)

[VampiricClown]

It's weird, there have been a ton of horror films coming out in the past couple of years, but the problem is that they've steered away from what was horror and what was. It used to be something that put people in somewhat realistic situations and know that the average joe could be in that situation, not just some hot, school-girl.

The only time horror movies now days will be scary is if you watch the first five horror movies of your life. After that, you don't feel the spooking factor anymore. They also lose a lot of momentum after you're over the age of 14. They just don't work. And the appearance of the recent slew of PG-13 horror films and remakes recently, the scare factor is going to eventually dissipate.

The genre is in fact dying, and will most likely not be able to be redeemed by anything. The only thing that might possibly save our original idea of horror films, is if the writers start coming up with some more original stuff, and/or stop ripping off all of the teen slasher films from the 70's and 80's.

SAW and Hostel were somewhat original. I'm sure similar stuff had been done prior to these, but people don't really see that.

Another thing, the writers need to stop adding gore, nudity and profanity in the place of the sheer lack of story and imagination. It's not helping the genre, it's just making it worse. When the best thing you can get out of a horror movie is some young guys dropping numerous f-bombs and seeing two tons of breasts.....That's not a horror film. That's a bad porno.

As much as I hope it can be saved from total damnation, I think the spotlight for horror films just faded into darkness. :(

[alkytrio666]

Originally posted by VampiricClown
SAW and Hostel were somewhat original. I'm sure similar stuff had been done prior to these, but people don't really see that.

Saw and Hostel were both pieces of uncreative, sloppy garbage.

[Dante'sInferno]

Don't worry i will bring back the horror genre with my Movie's.Don't believe me?Ask around...Er....oh yeah all present horror movies suck ass....2004-2006....GRANTED saw was OKAY.

[PR3SSUR3]

whats not to like about the 1st Ring ??

I love the brown ring.

[VampiricClown]

Originally posted by alkytrio666
Saw and Hostel were both pieces of uncreative, sloppy garbage.

It's true that they did suck pretty bad. But I did enjoy the fact that there was a point to the killing in both of these films. It wasn't your typical teenage, mindless, innocents being slaughtered film. In Saw, the people didn't think their lives were good enough. In Hostel, it proves males shouldn't think with their dicks. Those were the only saving graces for either of those films to me. The acting, gore, and over gratious nudity in these, completley sucked. If not for the stories, these would never have hit theaters.

[PR3SSUR3]

i'll use The Tiranic for that ...


http://www.medicalhelpers.com/medical_illness/alzheimers_disease.html

[horrorfreak1]

The best decade for horror was the 1980's. From the 90's foward horror movies have not been that great.

[alkytrio666]

Originally posted by horrorfreak1
The best decade for horror was the 1980's. From the 90's foward horror movies have not been that great.

The 60s, 70s, and 80s all had their gems.

The 30s were an incredible decade for horror, too. Incredible.

I.E.

Dracula
Frankenstein
The Invisible Man
King Kong
The Bride of Frankenstein
Freaks


The list goes on and on...

[urgeok]

Originally posted by PR3SSUR3
http://www.medicalhelpers.com/medical_illness/alzheimers_disease.html


is there a drug for 'happy fingers' ? :D

[PR3SSUR3]

\o/
/ \

[_____V_____]

The absolute dearth of new and novel ideas have also hit the genre hard. Thats one of the main reasons we have game-to-movie adaptations and remakes galore.

Almost all the topics under horror have been made into a movie or the other. We have had countless vampire, innumerable werewolf and plenty of zombie movies. The slashers have been saturated to such a point that no new plot is redeeming the slasher genre (cept maybe Saw and Saw II).

Japanese horror has found acceptance here because there are plenty of original ideas emanating in that part of the world. Now we have run into franchises getting together. Freddy vs Jason was the first successful one, close on its heels came Alien vs Predator. Both enjoyed tremendous commercial success so now rumors of more "vs" movies are doing the rounds.

There is no novel idea which hasnt been turned into a movie plot before. If remakes are the criteria and the horror genre jumps into other genres to stay alive, then it would be dreadful. For example, it would suck to see a remake of "the Good, the Bad and the Ugly" as a horror movie. (bad idea, scratched instantly)

I just hope this is a circle we are going through, like the evolutionary chain. And the genre moves into a new direction, enjoying both commercial and critical success.

[urgeok]

like i said before - horror has suffered because of the fans who actually pay to get into the theatres en mass. - kids..

so the majority of horror movies are for kids, starring kids.

99% of these films end up being limp dick safe toothless little films.

I think there has been some hope though..
as mentioned the asian wave has given the genre a much needed kick in the ass, as well as our boy tarantino and his friends, rob zombie, who are definately trying to kick it 'old school' when it comes to gore for the sake of gore,etc ..

even if you dont like the particular films (hostel, cabin fever, 1000 corpses, haute tension, etc, you have to acknowledge their efforts to jump-start horror.

Putting out an R rated horror is a brave bold move these days. It almost guarantees failure at the box office.

iunfortunately my personal feeling is - that they are just small blips on the radar and unless they somehow take hold and encourage big name respectable actors and directors to make class horror films like they did in the 70's ... then things will continue to go downhill despite their efforts.

[PR3SSUR3]

even if you dont like the particular films (hostel, cabin fever, 1000 corpses, haute tension, etc, you have to acknowledge their efforts to jump-start horror.

Putting out an R rated horror is a brave bold move these days. It almost guarantees failure at the box office.

iunfortunately my personal feeling is - that they are just small blips on the radar and unless they somehow take hold and encourage big name respectable actors and directors to make class horror films like they did in the 70's ... then things will continue to go downhill despite their efforts.

Yes, add Saw and Wolf Creek to that list too.

Box office suicide used to be the case with 'NC-17' movies, is that now the case with 'R'? How young are these kids watching horror movies in America these days, 13?

[urgeok]

Originally posted by PR3SSUR3
Box office suicide used to be the case with 'NC-17' movies, is that now the case with 'R'?

it practically is with R .. most of those are straight to video.

I know people will be able to come up with a few examples to the contrary - but if you make a comparrison the large majority of films in the theatres - they are pretty safe.PG -13 at worst.... nudity has almost completely dissapeared from the big screen in north america.
Swearing makes it into PG-13 films as well as action violence, but thats about it.

How young are these kids watching horror movies in America these days, 13?

if you go to the theatre ... most of the audience is 12 - 18

you rarely see adults at anything other than something like 'the notebook' or 'the da vinci code'

most people after 25 - especially when they have kids - will say they maybe see 2 movies a year - saving the occasion for something like da vinci code or maybe even x-men 3 (if they can beg their wives to go).

you ask a kid and they go every weekend ..

[ItsAlive75]

Originally posted by urgeok

most people after 25 - especially when they have kids - will say they maybe see 2 movies a year - saving the occasion for something like da vinci code or maybe even x-men 3

After I see the midnight show of X3 tonight (tomorrow morning....semantics), it will be 3 movies I've seen at the theatre this year. The other ones were The Da Vinci Code and M:I:3. So I basically go for the Blockbusters, or something that really deserves my hard-earned dollar.

[Dante'sInferno]

Every remake or seqeul will be as good as this!!!!!!!!!!




































































































SHIT

[Dante'sInferno]

Sorry,Yeah i too think the genre is dieing...




EDIT:Fucking typo's....holy fuck i can't spell today.>.<

[urgeok]

Originally posted by ItsAlive75
After I see the midnight show of X3 tonight (tomorrow morning....semantics), it will be 3 movies I've seen at the theatre this year. The other ones were The Da Vinci Code and M:I:3. So I basically go for the Blockbusters, or something that really deserves my hard-earned dollar.

i'll be seeing x3 for sure ... but it does mean a 100$ night (including babysitter)

cant do that every weekend

[Yellow Jacket]

I too will probably be seeing X3 this weekend! Here are the other movies I've seen in theaters this year (sorry, ItsAlive gave me the inspiration):

Mission: Impossible 3
The Hills Have Eyes (remake)
Scary Movie 4
The Benchwarmers
Silent Hill

There are probably a few more, but I can't think of them right now. I was trying to make it a weekly thing, but not everything deserves my dolalr (and people don't need their kids babysat as much and nobody is offering for people to get their grass cut, so I'm basically waiting until I turn 15 this August to get a job).

[ItsAlive75]

Originally posted by urgeok
i'll be seeing x3 for sure ... but it does mean a 100$ night (including babysitter)

cant do that every weekend

Youch. And you wouldn't even be able to have a relaxing night out with the lil' lady, what with kids being insensitive assholes at theatres now.

...but that's a discussion we've all had in numerous other threads.

[_____V_____]

if you go to the theatre ... most of the audience is 12 - 18

I agree with urge 100%. Most part of the audiences today is between 12-25 (at the max) and anyone later then that age group usually goes to spend a weekend night out, have a change from the tough week they had at work or at home, or with curiosity towards a particular movie whose prequel, sequel or original version they had seen in their youth days.

The thinking horror fan's movies have died out. I think the last one on those lines was "What Lies Beneath". They tried to take "Gothika" on those lines too but it sucked...badly...

Its a common problem with most movies these days. If the target audience cant comprehend whats going on, the movie bombs.

I wonder if there will be any more movies for the thinking horror fan. Which was the last one you saw and actually enjoyed it? Left the theater at end and felt "ah now that was a good one!"??

[urgeok]

i think there will be guys who will always carry the tourch ...
we just have to hope that they are inventive and resourceful enough to pull of a quality piece of work on the fraction of the budget these other pieces of shit get.


with pop culture and the heard-like mentality - and fickleness of the people who follow it there is another inevitable trend that drives me nuts.

IF a quality piece of work comes out and does enliven the genre - the trend is that other films will be made to catch a piece of the box office action.

one or 2 might be good but eventually the greedy lazy ass bullshit efforts hit the theatres and start giving the genre a bad name again.

we've seen the cycle repeat over and over. The only genre that hurts because of this worse than horror is it's poor cousin Sci-Fi.
(you can get a gal to see horror - good luck with sci-fi)

i think the bottom line of this whole discussion is :

we're gonna take what we can get .. mostly it's shit - sometimes its good, and occasionally - once in a blue moon its something special.

it is our lot in life as horror fans to wade through miles of shit to find that one gem (its kind of like going garage sailing - typo intentional)

i IS NOT going to change.
best to accept it in dignified silence ... (otherwise there will be no gems to find at all eventually)