Horror Franchises - the poor mans horror experience.

[urgeok]

I think Horror franchises have been the worst thing to happen to the genre.

Friday 13
Halloween
Howling
Elm St
Hellraiser

any series with at least 4 films....

The 1st one is always good ...
The rest start to suck and blow in comparrison.
Usually there is one more decent one that someone took the time to give a little care and a decent script to - but as a rule they are mostly shit.

why ? The 1st ones are usually done by a competent filmmaker ..then the sequels are handed over to hacks.
To be fair - the 2nd installment is sometimes decent .. but then they go off the deep end.

The 'filmmakers' feel that the sequels have a built in audience (and sadly they are right) so less than half the work is put into them .. why bother - people will rent the shit anyway.

Actors of any caliber dont want anything to do with horror sequels - so you end up with has been tv stars .. starlet wannabe's with fake tits who couldnt act to save their lives ...

they are made with 'straight to video' in mind. no budget for anything.



it was imagination, origionality, entheusiasm and creativity that made the first films work.
Take those elements away and what are you left with ? Shit.

The worst single thing that happens in these franchises is : the killer becomes a joke. He becomes too familiar.
The mystery is what makes these movies cool in the 1st place.
When you hit part 7 .. there is nothing left in the tank.


anyway .. thats what i think about these old 'standards'
and thats why many of the more entheusiastic horror fans try so hard to find unique films .. to rediscover the fun of the mystery and origionality.

[Skaboy]

I agree with all that you say but here's an interesting caveat:

You say all franchises with four or more installments and I would tend to agree: for instance, the fourth Hellraiser was tripe, the third okay, the second quite good and the original good. Trilogies tend to be good and it is indeed the fourth installment that often lets these series down.

What about the Alien series though? Personally, I thought Resurrection was pretty dire; largely reliant as it was on over-the-top gross (CGI?). IMDb gives it 6/10 though; indicating that a lot of people think it has merit.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by Skaboy
I agree with all that you say but here's an interesting caveat:

You say all franchises with four or more installments and I would tend to agree: for instance, the fourth Hellraiser was tripe, the third okay, the second quite good and the original good. Trilogies tend to be good and it is indeed the fourth installment that often lets these series down.

What about the Alien series though? Personally, I thought Resurrection was pretty dire; largely reliant as it was on over-the-top gross (CGI?). IMDb gives it 6/10 though; indicating that a lot of people think it has merit.

i actually liked alien ressurection.

and it had a talented director and a good cast ... hardly on par with any of the slasher series ..

yeah there will be exceptions to my thoughts .. i couldnt think of any more franchises when i was writing the note ...

the ones i specifically mentioned were the ones i was thinking about when i wrote the post ..

TCM could be another too i guess ..
or psycho

i'm mostly tired of the Freddy/Jason/Michael holy trio... they were the worst examples of watching good initial movies turn into crap

[Skaboy]

Again, I share your views entirely and you have a point about the fourth installment being fateful. I was interested in your opinion on Resurrection as I feel that lets the other three Alien films down. It's certainly nowhere near as bad as any other 4+ films.

Sometimes not even the first three films are any good but then I guess you're talking about proper franchises and not just series of films? I'm thinking of all of the Leprechaun films for example. Now they started out bad and just got worse. And I can't believe Ltnt Gruebber from Allo' Allo' is in one of them!

And it's not just the horror genre either: look at the slow decline of Police Academy to PA7...

[urgeok]

Originally posted by Skaboy
Again, I share your views entirely and you have a point about the fourth installment being fateful. I was interested in your opinion on Resurrection as I feel that lets the other three Alien films down. It's certainly nowhere near as bad as any other 4+ films.

Sometimes not even the first three films are any good but then I guess you're talking about proper franchises and not just series of films? I'm thinking of all of the Leprechaun films for example. Now they started out bad and just got worse. And I can't believe Ltnt Gruebber from Allo' Allo' is in one of them!

And it's not just the horror genre either: look at the slow decline of Police Academy to PA7...

oh hell yeah - the leprechaun films .. jesus..

i'd say the same about the Chuckie films too .. they were for the most part retread shit - except for Seed of Chuckie which was actually pretty good ..if you dont mind that self mocking 'too smart for their own good' kind of film that Pr3ssure despises :cool:

[PR3SSUR3]

All of the Alien series have strong directors, each with their own unique vision. I like them all, each for different reasons.

As for bogeyman franchises, the worst must be Halloween with its desperately contrived plot twists to keep familiarity alive and introduction of hip actors and splashy gore to secure the teenage market. A Nightmare on Elm Street was almost tolerable up to about 5, but Craven's self-indulgent New Nightmare was a shockingly bland and wasted effort.

But every once in a while, a spark of interest arrives late in a series, such as the underrated Jason X (self-referential and unashamedly plagiaristic but highly enjoyable nontheless).

[urgeok]

man i just couldnt get into Jason X ..
i think the Robo-chick was the last straw ...

i wanted to like it .. i thought the space angle was fun .. but they let so many opportunities slip through their fingers ..

[PR3SSUR3]

All bets were off in this one, pure comic-strip stuff.

Jason's final transformation into the fetishistic (well, I got a boner dunno bout anyone else) metal monster at the end was cool as fuck.

Even the knowingness was cool: "well, he's done with the campers!"


:cool:

[Elvis_Christ]

I really enjoy the endless sequels, cracks me up to see the shit (and it is just that 90% of the time) they come up with. As P said the comic strip aspect is great in these franchises. Total popcorn cinema tune in and switch off!

I thought the Hellraiser series was decent (the last two haven't been released here yet tho so dunno if they've run it into the ground).

The Re-Animator series was dope too..... just about to watch the third so we'll see if that gets fucked up for me :p

[Elvis_Christ]

Originally posted by PR3SSUR3
but Craven's self-indulgent New Nightmare was a shockingly bland and wasted effort.


:rolleyes: no way. New Nightmare was the best entry since the original!

[Despare]

I don't know, with Halloween and Fri. 13th I liked some of the sequals. I don't know what the deal was with Hellraiser though, everything but 1 was bad. What about good franchises though like Evil Dead? There are others (I loved Dawn and Day of the dead and liked Land) but I think we really forget about the good ones because the bad ones destroy what we really liked. When a sequals continues something good people just kind of go "yeah, that's how it should be done" when really they deserve more praise for not trashing the franchise. I liked Candyman 1 and 2 but have only seen some of 3. Anyway, I like franchises because of the lasting charecters they can create but once those chars. are ruined they're hard to ressurect. I agree with the filmmaker theory though, I think when the creator sticks with the franchise all the way through it has a better chance of not becoming a laughingstock.

[gorefreak]

Urgeok, I'd have to dissagree with the "Nightmare", "Halloween" and "Jason" series. Those kick ass. :) "Hellraiser" 1 and 2 were great, 3 and 4 were tolerable, but anything after that just puts me to sleep.

"The Howling" however, that's a different story. Not only is the first one lame, but the sequels got progressively worse with each installment.

[The STE]

I kinda liked the first one. I liked how they teased who the werewolf was, hinting on several different people (which, granted, a lot of those type movies do)...and then




SPOILER




it's EVERYONE






END SPOILER

[Skaboy]

Originally posted by Despare
I don't know, with Halloween and Fri. 13th I liked some of the sequals. I don't know what the deal was with Hellraiser though, everything but 1 was bad. What about good franchises though like Evil Dead? There are others (I loved Dawn and Day of the dead and liked Land) but I think we really forget about the good ones because the bad ones destroy what we really liked. When a sequals continues something good people just kind of go "yeah, that's how it should be done" when really they deserve more praise for not trashing the franchise. I liked Candyman 1 and 2 but have only seen some of 3. Anyway, I like franchises because of the lasting charecters they can create but once those chars. are ruined they're hard to ressurect. I agree with the filmmaker theory though, I think when the creator sticks with the franchise all the way through it has a better chance of not becoming a laughingstock.

I rather think that the original post was making the point that it's the four or more franchises which lose momentum. That was certainly my opinion in reply.

I agree that there are good franchises, if we can call them that when they only run to three installments.

In my opinion at least, a trilogy is usually made for all the right reasons. Where a franchise develops though, films are simply made to capitalise on the character: Freddy, Jason etc.

The Evil Dead trilogy were all good films, as were Night, Dawn and Day of the Dead. Outside of the horror genre, there are also good trilogies: Raiders of the Lost Ark, Back to the Future and Terminator spring to mind. There are also franchises that lost momentum after the third installment. I use Police Academy again as an example.

Of course there are second sequels that are the falling down point: Jaws was good, Jaws 2 okay and Jaws 3 dire. For the most part though, trilogies tend to be okay but once a series gets to its fourth installment, that's where things run out of steam.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by gorefreak
Urgeok, I'd have to dissagree with the "Nightmare", "Halloween" and "Jason" series. Those kick ass. :) "Hellraiser" 1 and 2 were great, 3 and 4 were tolerable, but anything after that just puts me to sleep.

"The Howling" however, that's a different story. Not only is the first one lame, but the sequels got progressively worse with each installment.


the 1st Howling is a great film ... the series tanked immediately after.

halloween and fri 13th is the same shit over and over again .. absolutely no care or thought was put into then after the first couple of installments.

Elm St tried to come up with inventive little gags but it reeked of desperation after a while. The 1st one was about making nightmares come true ... after that it became 'how wild can we get' ... totally lost its initial impact and made Freddy into a joke. over exposure ...

[gorefreak]

Ehhhh, true, they did take "Nightmare" more on the comical side rather than the darkened, dismal atmosphere of the first one. I dunno about "The Howling". It just didn't do much for me. Now, "An American Werewolf In London".... that kicks ass. :) Even the first "Gingersnaps" was okay with decent story, okay effects for a shoestring budget and it didn't revolve around bunch of overly pretentious preppy teens.

[Despare]

Originally posted by Skaboy
I rather think that the original post was making the point that it's the four or more franchises which lose momentum. That was certainly my opinion in reply.

I agree that there are good franchises, if we can call them that when they only run to three installments.

In my opinion at least, a trilogy is usually made for all the right reasons. Where a franchise develops though, films are simply made to capitalise on the character: Freddy, Jason etc.

The Evil Dead trilogy were all good films, as were Night, Dawn and Day of the Dead. Outside of the horror genre, there are also good trilogies: Raiders of the Lost Ark, Back to the Future and Terminator spring to mind. There are also franchises that lost momentum after the third installment. I use Police Academy again as an example.

Of course there are second sequels that are the falling down point: Jaws was good, Jaws 2 okay and Jaws 3 dire. For the most part though, trilogies tend to be okay but once a series gets to its fourth installment, that's where things run out of steam.

I don't know, because in the case of Friday the 13th Jason is only really in 2 of what would have been the trilogy if they stopped at 3. Personally I'm glad they didn't.

[SKOOFx]

Pt 5 was hands down the best.
People always say its crap.

but ok.BIG DEAL

<SPOILER>


Its not the J-man

<End Spoiler>


The way it was done was sooo freaking entertaining.
The characters...atmosphere...definitly one of my fav flicks.