Reparations And Affirmative Action?...Touchy Subjects

[bloodrayne]

It isn't my intention to start a race riot...I'm one of the least racist people I know...I only wanted some of your opinions on these issues...

The way I see it:

1) Reparations are a way to say, "I'm sorry for what my people did to your people"...HOWEVER...Neither I, nor anyone in my family, or my friends (which are the people that I consider to be MY people, and they consist of different races), have ever hurt any other people...So, why should we feel the need to 'repair' injustices inflicted upon others by our forefathers (that we never even knew)?....Furthermore...None of the people that are alive today, participated in this indiscretion, be they considered the victim or the perpetrator....So, who do these reparations go to?...Victims who were never victimized...

Why do people STILL feel so damned guilty?..WE did not do these things...

2) Affirmative Action takes jobs away from people who are more qualified (in many cases, and I HAVE seen it myself) and gives jobs to people who are less qualified, solely because of the color of their skin...If you ask me, THAT'S racism...

Affirmative Action is supposed to be a way to make certain that people are not discriminated against because of their race...However, I don't know of ANY company that would get away with racial discrimintion ANYWAY...There ARE laws...If you are discriminated against, sue the bastards, make sure they're punished, but DON'T punish EVERYONE, before the fact, just in case someone MIGHT discriminate against someone else...

That's just like throwing all 10 year olds in jail, just because they MIGHT become criminals when they're 20...I sincerely see it as THAT stupid...

A person should earn a job on their own merit...If they have the skills, education, experience, and/or whatever else is necessary to obtain a particular job, it should be given to them...No matter WHAT color their skin is...

[Angelakillsluts]

I don't agree with a black person getting a job over a white person who is much better suited for the job, but if they are two equal applicants I believe the black person should get the job.

I think that racism still exists and the effects of slavery still effect black people today. So I support both Affirmative Action and Reparations for that reason. I feel that our government wasn't there for them then so I agree with today's government paying reparations today. I don't think anyone is racist for agreeing/disagreeing with them though.

[bloodrayne]

Originally posted by Angelakillsluts
the effects of slavery still effect black people today. That's a VERY interesting opinion...Seriously...Thanks for sharing that, but I just don't see it...Maybe it depends on where you live...

[Angelakillsluts]

I just think that your lineage has a lot to do with how you end up. I think having a strong lineage is important and I think that alot of black people living in this country were robbed of that. Slavery wasn't that long ago, afterall. Think of it like crushing a sponge in your hand. Even after you stop crushing it, it takes awhile to recover fully. If you look at your lineage, they're usually the same class. It's not usually that one family is poor, and their kids grow up to be rich etc. I think slavery seriously disadvantaged black people, because it started that cycle.

[bloodrayne]

Originally posted by Angelakillsluts
I just think that your lineage has a lot to do with how successful you are. If some where a long the line, even if it's your great-great-great-great grandparents were getting beaten up for trying to read signs on a window... I think having a strong lineage of intelligent individuals is important and I think that black people were robbed of that. Okay...I see your point...BUT...

I believe that racism (which will most likely ALWAYS exist) is more to be blamed for lack of opportunities, for ALL races, than slavery is (at the present time)...But, at what point do you break away from that past?...The opportunities ARE available now, a person can obtain a decent education no matter what their race or background, I know many people of different races that are VERY intelligent....At what point does it end?...Don't you think that somewhere along the line, it can be considered an excuse?...Will people always be able to say "I can't make it because of my ancestors' trials?"

Were Will Smith, Condaleeza Rice, Colin Powell, Luther Vandross, Michael Clarke Duncan, and a million other successful people, descendants of slaves?...I don't even know, yet whether they were or not, it doesn't seem to have mattered...

Hispanics, Native Americans, etcetera, were never enslaved...And yet...

[Angelakillsluts]

Originally posted by bloodrayne

Were Will Smith, Condaleeza Rice, Colin Powell, Luther Vandross, Michael Clarke Duncan, and a million other successful people, descendants of slaves?...I don't even know, yet whether they were or not, it doesn't seem to have mattered...

Hispanics, Native Americans, etcetera, were never enslaved...And yet...

I edited that post, because I don't think I said what I wanted to in the original. :o

I'm not saying it's impossible to become successful if your parents, grandparents,great grandparents etc.successful or it's impossible to move up in class, I'm just saying that I believe a strong lineage is an advantage which in the event of a tie for a job, I think the black person should get it.

Well native americans weren't enslaved they were just killed outright. Good point though, sadly racism will always effect society.

[bloodrayne]

Thanks for the discussion, Angela...As always, I appreciate and respect your views......You Rock:cool:




Dustin just walked in, so I gotta go...



If the rest of you guys aren't afraid to carry on this discussion, I'd love to read it when I come back in...


I KNEW some of you guys wouldn't wanna touch this one...Some subjects are like Leprosy, no? :p

[newb]

Originally posted by bloodrayne



I KNEW some of you guys wouldn't wanna touch this one...Some subjects are like Leprosy, no? :p


Way to heavy for me.....especially on a friday afternoon when all i have on my mind at the moment is a nice cold beer.:D

[Angelakillsluts]

Originally posted by bloodrayne
Thanks for the discussion, Angela...As always, I appreciate and respect your views......You Rock:cool:


:)


Originally posted by bloodrayne
I KNEW some of you guys wouldn't wanna touch this one...Some subjects are like Leprosy, no? :p

haha for sure. The truth is if it was another person who posted the thread, I would have steered myself right back into the "Stream of Consciousness" thread :D

[VampiricClown]

I'm gonna have to agree with Rayne's first post here. Even though there are laws against racial descrimination, the laws break themselves 98% of the time on this subject. I myself am not racist, but some of these things are a bit much.

This situation is kind of like not being someone's friend because they're dad cheats on his wife. That's not really the kids fault now is it? It's the same thing.

I'd also like to ask the question of, why is it ok for other races to make fun of(i.e. comedians) white's, but it's racism for us to say anything about any other race?:confused:

I hope I haven't offended anyone here, but if I have. My apologies.

[Taom]

Originally posted by newb
Way to heavy for me.....especially on a friday afternoon when all i have on my mind at the moment is a nice cold beer.:D


I was thinking the same thing newb...

I had dinner at Mavericks Steakhouse and a number of beers before work :cool:
And I'm hoping to go home early so I can drink some more.
Perhaps tommorrow when I'm hungover and smoking way too much I'll touch this one, but friday afternoon is not the time for serious discussion.

[VampiricClown]

Originally posted by Taom
I was thinking the same thing newb...

I had dinner at Mavericks Steakhouse and a number of beers before work :cool:
And I'm hoping to go home early so I can drink some more.
Perhaps tommorrow when I'm hungover and smoking way too much I'll touch this one, but friday afternoon is not the time for serious discussion.

Can't handle the pressure???:D

[wood_elf_pansy]

I agree with you Rayne. I am the farthest thing from racist. I have family that are of a different race than myself, my step son for example is Venezuelan and South American. I just don't see how racism is going to stop or decrease if people keep putting so much into it. Why can't we all just forgive and forget and make life so much easier for everyone?

that's all I will say.

[Haunted]

The thing that affects minorities today isn't so much racial as socio-economic. For instance, if we look at the Civil Rights movement as the mechanism to help minorities (in this case, mostly black minorities) assimilate into the career world and elevate in that infrastructure we're going to see some lag. It's only been forty or so odd years since the Civil Rights movement. People have had a hard time advancing in the professional world.

If you want to look at Latinos then we have a different situation. In the late 1800's and early 1900's we had a mass immigration of Italian and other eastern European nationalities. They didn't come to America speaking English. People thought they were dirty and ignorant. So, they could only advance so far in the working world, and we're talking about inner cities. Over time, they've become part of American culture. It took over a hundred years, though.

The big group that part of my family is actually apart of are the Native Americans. They DON'T WANT to assimilate. They want to maintain their own culture without much interferance. You may say, "Yeah, but Haunted, what about the casinos?" Many Native American groups don't want to be associated with those casinos. Those casinos were an act of desperation. It's very ridiculous and very sad the conditions that many Native Americans live in as they are forced to sort of be a tourist attraction or novelty.

However, they've got several programs and various efforts to reestablish their heritage and work toward the betterment of their people.

As for racism itself: There's no excuse for it. In fact, there is no such thing as race. It's ethnicity. By and large human beings are biologically identical. We've developed skin colorations and hair textures for adaptive purposes. Race indicates different types of humans, which there aren't any.

[knife_fight]

about 5 years ago the gubment handed out money to Native Americans. my dad had enough Creek "in him" to get some of the money, but he turned it down, because he didn't feel it was right to take it. not that he's rich or anything, he just felt the money should go to people who really needed it.

[Taom]

Originally posted by VampiricClown
Can't handle the pressure???:D

It's not that. I love a good serious debate. But this is friday, and my only concern is getting off work early tonight so that I can go party it up >:] I do have some opinions to express on the issue, but it'll have to wait till tommorrow. While I'm at work, I do have broadband connection, but I get inturrupted alot, so writing a long post while at work just doesn't work. My train of thought get's broken toodamn much just leaving a post as long as this one. :(

[AUSTIN316426808]

I don't have anything to say besides how much I love that ''forgive and forget'' statement.

[sabersword]

Is it just me, or does it seem like people are out to play an angle. Get somthing for nothing, or, just screw you. I have known people of most raceses, and, on the face of it, we all suck. Were the blacks inslaved? Was this country taken away from the native americans? Hell, did the Irish get a bad deal at the turn of the century? Welcome to the real world! Do I seem bitter,Im not, just tired of all the whining.

[newb]

Originally posted by knife_fight
about 5 years ago the gubment handed out money to Native Americans. my dad had enough Creek "in him" to get some of the money, but he turned it down, because he didn't feel it was right to take it. not that he's rich or anything, he just felt the money should go to people who really needed it.

You should be proud of your dad...a most honorable man.

[Taom]

I agree with newb.....It's good to hear about a man, of any ethnicity, not taking a hand out. Most of the time you only hear about the people who live off handouts.

[ItsAlive75]

It's a mixed bag, I think. On the one hand, it gives all minority students opportunities they would probably never have otherwise.

But then on the other side of it, it's kind of a stupid idea in its creation. You're doing something unequal to make equality. Kind of a paradox.

Plus if I was black, I would find it a little demeaning knowing I had that stigma on me.

[wood_elf_pansy]

Originally posted by AUSTIN316426808
I don't have anything to say besides how much I love that ''forgive and forget'' statement.

can i get a "whoot, whoot!"?

[wood_elf_pansy]

i'm going to teach myself spanish..... my step son is probably going to speak more spanish than english and i dont want him talking bad about me or his dad without us knowing it. (he is only 9 months old, incase there was confizzleation)

[AUSTIN316426808]

Originally posted by wood_elf_pansy
can i get a "whoot, whoot!"?


Actually, that was sarcasm, I think it's a little naive.

I swear, although I probably am, I'm not trying to be mean.

[wood_elf_pansy]

Originally posted by AUSTIN316426808
Actually, that was sarcasm, I think it's a little naive.

I swear, although I probably am, I'm not trying to be mean.

cool cool, i dont care so, its all good, no need to cry over spilled milk.

[AUSTIN316426808]

Originally posted by wood_elf_pansy
cool cool, i dont care so, its all good, no need to cry over spilled milk.


Like I said not trying to be mean, I agree with you and think it would be great if everybody did forgive and forget but I think the idea of it is naive cause it's just not going to happen. Wasn't ripping on you personally or anything.

[wood_elf_pansy]

Originally posted by AUSTIN316426808
Like I said not trying to be mean, I agree with you and think it would be great if everybody did forgive and forget but I think the idea of it is naive cause it's just not going to happen. Wasn't ripping on you personally or anything.

good to know:)

[Angelakillsluts]

Originally posted by trippin_the_rif
If they wanna live here, they need to learn our languge.

English is "our" language? Sorry, but we have more than one language. You're no more of an american than a person who moved here from another country either.

[cheebacheeba]

but if they are two equal applicants I believe the black person should get the job.
Angela...If you actually mean that...that's stupid. I mean I'm not here taking the opposing side, but what you just said, of I'm correct about it is that two people can apply for a job, a white person, and a black person, and be equally qualified...and the black person should just get it on account of that, being black? HAha...you don't seriously mean that do you?
If it came down to EXACTLY the same profile in every other way than race, clearly there'd be other factors to consider...attitude, references...etc, but "lets just hand the equally qualified black guy the job? Fuck all that, shit, even if I was the black guy, I'd be ashamed as a motherfucker to take a job given in such a manner. I mean, imagine the reverse, and the potential employers were conducting an interview, same questions, same answers. What if they asked the very frequently asked interview question "and why do you think you'd be good for this job?" would it be ok for his/her answer to be "Well, as you can see by my resume, I come highly qualified, oh, and because I'm BLACK, which clearly puts me over the top of all these equally qualified white folk". I wouldn't stand for that any more than I'd stand for the other applicant thinking he should have a better shot at the job on account of being white. Anyone that thinks race (regardless of which) could, or should carry them into a job should be ashamed of themselves, as should anyone that would perpetuate the situation by letting this kind of thing occur.

I don't know much about the whole affirmative action/reparation thang, so I admit partial ignorance in this matter...however, there have been issues in my countrys past (different story here, but similar situation)...the whites have done some TERRIBLE things to the indigenous people of this place, rapes, kidnappings, killings, and ongoing REALLY shitty treatment of any of those that survived these things. Do I feel bad about that? Of course. Will I apologise for acts commited by descendants? No fucking way. These are things that I would never consider doing to other people of ANY race, and I would very much frown upon anyone that could even entertain the notion, and yknow what? If that doesn't cut it, I couldn't give a fuck less.
I treat all people as equals, I'm an easygoing guy...I have friends from pretty much every race I've encountered here...however, that said...If and when I were to get my restaurant up and running in the future, and I was seeing applicants, it would take more qualifications than "I'm of a race trodden upon by your ancestors", to see them through their interview. Why? Because race isn't something I'd think to consider in the first place, one way or the other.
Sure, if it came down to a white person and a black person, admittedly, my subconcious may have me leaning in favour if the white person, however, that's irrelevant. The outcome would be decided SOLELY on the basis of skills, experience, and disposition. In the UNLIKELY event that the two people should have exactly the same age, presentation, and qualifications, the decision would be based on the persons attitude, work ethic, and general disposition.
See, throwing a job at a person because of their race, IMO, make ME look like the stupid asshole...and in all honesty, I don't think I'd REALLY be doing the person any favours if I DID. I'm all about equal oppertunity in terms of race, but that's exactly where the buck stops EQUAL means EQUAL.

In regards to your comments, Trippin...I have to say that I doubt that US citizens can't get decent jobs without being bilingual, if a person is skilled enough, and puts due effort into their training, and employment, there should be nothing to hold them back. If what you say is true, this is a very unfortunate situation, and I'd reccomend leaving immediately. As for a person who speaks both another language, and english learned as a second language maybe having a better chance than an equally qualified person that only speaks english, I'd say that unless their use of english was not profficient, as unfair as it may "seem" from the perspective of the single-language person, this is fair. If that's the case, it's not about race, it IS about being a more valuable asset...and only reflects upon their effort in learning a second language. Think about it, English mustn't be any easier to pick up than any other language WE'd consider foreign...whether or not these people have learned the language through neccessity, or employment prospects, they have done so on their own steam. In this situation, the bottom line is - they are multilingual, you are not. That's all it is.
Although I do agree with you on one point. If a person is to live in a country not their own, learning the local language prior to, or soon after arrival is the logical, and respectful thing to do...one might say that it would be even a little racist not to...but that's another story entirely, I just thought I'd let you know that I agree with your feelings on this matter.

[stubbornforgey]

EM deemed racist amongst my peers..but em not..just over opinionated on these
matters..I totally agree with you Rayne.
Em sick to death of maori (especially)
crying foul !!!
Every fucking day you hear on the news
about maori laying claim to yet another
piece of land or what ever..because
of the injustices forced upon them in the
early years ..ancestor wise..
They even sent a fucking letter to NASA..
demanding that they pay rent for the use
of the air space over new zealand..I KID YOU NOT..
They occupy certain pieces of land ..confiscated by the crown in the early
years.
My outspoken veiw on this matter is...
You don't own the land..remember..there
was a tribe of ppl here before you came and you ran them out..(mori hori)
who were eaten ..beaten ..slaughtered and forced into slavery..you fucking morons.
Maori are lazy..alot of them sit on the benefits..statistic wise..thier crime rate
is pathetically high..
there are more maori inmates than any
other race.
They walk around and bully thier way
into ppls lives..if you look at them wrong
they will take to you with a weapon...
The land the crown has given back to
them ..incuding settlement payments
are immediately sold to developers and the money is spent ...not on the ppl ..but investments like the casino and
rugby teams.
By the way..em part maori but you would never get me to admit it on an
application form.
I have also had dealings with aborigines..so know what the white australians are talking about on that matter..dirty fucks they are..!!!

[MichaelMyers]

George Bush does not care about black people

[Spallalala]

Originally posted by stubbornforgey
I have also had dealings with aborigines..so know what the white australians are talking about on that matter..dirty fucks they are..!!!


I gotta step in here. Because not all of them are like that. I was born in Darwin where the majority of them are just like us. I also lived around them for about 9yrs in Perth.
When I moved to sydney I came across the dirty fuckers. Drinkin metho and lazying around bus shelters. Scared the hell out of me because they were so different. They seem to be white haters here in Sydney also.
I mean, there not all the same. It would be the same situation if I said that all maoris are criminals and are pretty damm violent. Too much aggression in there system. But I can't say that because I know its not true.

[TheOmen]

I'm one of the least racist people I know

I thought only racists said that :D

Reparations-No. The problem is, where does it stop? You can't go on handing out money to correct anything you've done in the past, and blacks shouldn't want it either. It makes it seem that what they went through can be repaired by money. And it can't. Most black dudes I know don't want reparations. They just want to be respected. That's a far bigger reward. Will it ever happen? Probably not. But money to cover for slavery is insulting to both sides. Plus the fact that many immigrants came over after slavery was abolished(like my family) and had no participation is slavery. Should I be taxed for something I didn't do?

Affirmative Action-Huge failure. Liberal guilt gave way to these goverment programs, and all it has done is form a crutch for minorities to lean on. It doesn't help them, and it doesn't help white guilt. In fact, it's created a bigger divide simply because whites are now even more spiteful. It also makes minorities question themselves. "Did I get the job because I deserved it, or am I the token black guy to fill the quota?" It doesn't help anyone in the least. What should have been done 40 years ago was improving the city schools, and the cities themselves. Instead we tip toe around the problems in the community, and instead focus on pandering to minorities like they're handicapped.

I completely agree with your views cheeb. I live in Florida. My experience is this. The Spanish, Mexican and Cuban immigrants that come to Florida to find better job oppurtunities, well, a majority of them don't care to learn the language that was once the the primary language. The language you and I speak , and I hate to say this, has become a secondary one. Requirements for most jobs here in Florida require that Spanish, Mexican, or Cuban must be spoken and/or learned. And as I do not practice prejudicial values as a means of running my life, and as prejudicial as this may sound, I find that discriminatory against Americans and the immigrants who have worked so hard to learn the American language.

I live in Florida too. And it's a big time garbage dump because immigrants come here and act like they are still in Haiti. What happened to being so prideful that you would work hard on your English, like my ancestors forced themselves to? They wanted to open a business, they better believe they had to at least learn the language. There's a Winn Dixie here that actually has a translator for those who speak English. Meaning if you speak English and shop there, they have to get this translator to speak to you, because he's the only person who speaks it. And that's wrong.

[Haunted]

"Some of my best friends are black." -That's one of my favorites.:rolleyes:

[ItsAlive75]

Telling immagrants to take the time to learn our language if they're going to adapt is kinda greedy.

People who only speak Spanish could say the same about you. If these people ARE coming to America to make a better life for them and their families (and by the way, they're taking the jobs Americans won't), you're refusing them that because you don't speak their language. White people are the MINORITY in America, there's more of "them" (if you wanna get Republican here) then there are of "us". America's a mixed bag, we're culturally diverse. So saying you're not going to learn any language but the one you speak seems weird.

[bloodrayne]

Originally posted by ItsAlive75
Telling immagrants to take the time to learn our language if they're going to adapt is kinda greedy. Hmm...Not really...

If you planned to move to Japan, and live and work in Japan for the rest of your life, don't you think you would HAVE to learn Japanese?...Or do you think that all of the Japanese people that you end up working with, should have to know English?...Remember, you would be in THEIR country, at that point...

[The STE]

Reparations and Afirmative Action are both bullshit. I'd go into why, but I'm pretty sure any reason I give has already been brought up, so all I'll say is that I haven't oppressed anybody

[ItsAlive75]

Originally posted by bloodrayne
Hmm...Not really...

If you planned to move to Japan, and live and work in Japan for the rest of your life, don't you think you would HAVE to learn Japanese?...Or do you think that all of the Japanese people that you end up working with, should have to know English?...Remember, you would be in THEIR country, at that point...

Actually English is a requirement in Japan... but I get your point.

And also, japan isn't like the U.S. It's pretty much just Japanese people there. We've got a shitload of different cultures and ethnicities.

[bloodrayne]

Originally posted by ItsAlive75
Actually English is a requirement in Japan... but I get your point.

And also, japan isn't like the U.S. It's pretty much just Japanese people there. We've got a shitload of different cultures and ethnicities. True...But, I do believe that the majority of us still speak English...And English is considered our 'national language'...I have some friends who came here from Thailand, just to go to college...And they learned English in order to do that...They didn't have a problem with it...

[ItsAlive75]

Originally posted by bloodrayne
True...But, I do believe that the majority of us still speak English...And English is considered our 'national language'...I have some friends who came here from Thailand, just to go to college...And they learned English in order to do that...They didn't have a problem with it...

I guess I shouldn't say they shouldn't have to learn our language, but I don't think we should be forcing them to do it. If they wanna hold on to their language, I think that's fine. I just don't get the hostility towards forcing other cultures to adapt.

I guess I'm in the minority here... and I TOTALLY didn't originally mean that as a joke, but that's kinda funny.

[bloodrayne]

Originally posted by ItsAlive75
I guess I shouldn't say they shouldn't have to learn our language, but I don't think we should be forcing them to do it. If they wanna hold on to their language, I think that's fine. I just don't get the hostility towards forcing other cultures to adapt. But, Sweetie think about it...You don't have to give up your culture, just to learn another language...No one expects someone to change who they are, how they live, or what they believe in, only to change what they KNOW


It's to COMMUNICATE...Not to ASSIMULATE


See?...It's really not so bad...



"Join Ussss"...heh


BTW...I can speak Spanish...But, I'm still...umm..well...whatever the hell I am...We are ALL mixed anyway, ya know...There really is no 'pure race'...

[ItsAlive75]

Originally posted by bloodrayne
But, Sweetie think about it...You don't have to give up your culture, just to learn another language...No one expects someone to change who they are, how they live, or what they believe in, only to change what they KNOW


It's to COMMUNICATE...Not to ASSIMULATE


See?...It's really not so bad...



"Join Ussss"...heh


BTW...I can speak Spanish...But, I'm still...umm..well...whatever the hell I am...We are ALL mixed anyway, ya know...There really is no 'pure race'...

Well we are asking them to change how they LIVE, and as for what they believe in... us Americans will persecute them for that once they're here... but that's a totally different conversation.

And I'll NEVER join you... I'll always stick up for the little mexican guy.

[bloodrayne]

Originally posted by ItsAlive75
Well we are asking them to change how they LIVEOnly in some ways for the better...Yet, WE don't ask them to do that, THEY choose to do that when they decide they wanna live here...They can still prepare and eat the same foods, celebrate the same holidays, decorate their homes the same way, raise their children however they like, etcetera...

Originally posted by ItsAlive75
as for what they believe in... us Americans will persecute them for that once they're hereHell, people do that EVERYWHERE...We should all be used to it by now...At least we (Americans) don't do it as bad as some...Ever heard of a little place called 'The Middle East'?


Anyway...This has given me an idea for another thread...:p

[ItsAlive75]

Originally posted by bloodrayne
Hell, people do that EVERYWHERE...We should all be used to it by now...At least we (Americans) don't do it as bad as some...Ever heard of a little place called 'The Middle East'?


Is that the restaurant where they make you penis hats out of newspaper?

[The STE]

I'm not persecuting anybody.

I do agree that they should at least TRY to learn English. Like It's said, we've got tons of ethnicities and cultures, should we try to learn ALL of their languages? Or is it more fair to have someone who is (in most cases) voluntarily moving to this country try to learn English?

[bloodrayne]

Originally posted by The STE
I'm not persecuting anybody.

I do agree that they should at least TRY to learn English. Like It's said, we've got tons of ethnicities and cultures, should we try to learn ALL of their languages? Or is it more fair to have someone who is (in most cases) voluntarily moving to this country try to learn English? Thank you...That's my point


And everyone can 'hold onto' their own language, as well as know another one...You don't have to 'give up' one for the other

[Angelakillsluts]

Originally posted by trippin_the_rif
AMERICANS cant get decent jobs without being bilingual. That's pretty shitty. I wont alter my life for those who wont alter theirs. Anything else you'd like to add?

Wah. You don't think they've altered their lives?

[Angelakillsluts]

Originally posted by cheebacheeba
Angela...If you actually mean that...that's stupid. I mean I'm not here taking the opposing side, but what you just said, of I'm correct about it is that two people can apply for a job, a white person, and a black person, and be equally qualified...and the black person should just get it on account of that, being black? HAha...you don't seriously mean that do you?
If it came down to EXACTLY the same profile in every other way than race, clearly there'd be other factors to consider...attitude, references...etc, but "lets just hand the equally qualified black guy the job? Fuck all that, shit, even if I was the black guy, I'd be ashamed as a motherfucker to take a job given in such a manner. I mean, imagine the reverse, and the potential employers were conducting an interview, same questions, same answers. What if they asked the very frequently asked interview question "and why do you think you'd be good for this job?" would it be ok for his/her answer to be "Well, as you can see by my resume, I come highly qualified, oh, and because I'm BLACK, which clearly puts me over the top of all these equally qualified white folk". I wouldn't stand for that any more than I'd stand for the other applicant thinking he should have a better shot at the job on account of being white. Anyone that thinks race (regardless of which) could, or should carry them into a job should be ashamed of themselves, as should anyone that would perpetuate the situation by letting this kind of thing occur.

I don't know much about the whole affirmative action/reparation thang, so I admit partial ignorance in this matter...however, there have been issues in my countrys past (different story here, but similar situation)...the whites have done some TERRIBLE things to the indigenous people of this place, rapes, kidnappings, killings, and ongoing REALLY shitty treatment of any of those that survived these things. Do I feel bad about that? Of course. Will I apologise for acts commited by descendants? No fucking way. These are things that I would never consider doing to other people of ANY race, and I would very much frown upon anyone that could even entertain the notion, and yknow what? If that doesn't cut it, I couldn't give a fuck less.
I treat all people as equals, I'm an easygoing guy...I have friends from pretty much every race I've encountered here...however, that said...If and when I were to get my restaurant up and running in the future, and I was seeing applicants, it would take more qualifications than "I'm of a race trodden upon by your ancestors", to see them through their interview. Why? Because race isn't something I'd think to consider in the first place, one way or the other.
Sure, if it came down to a white person and a black person, admittedly, my subconcious may have me leaning in favour if the white person, however, that's irrelevant. The outcome would be decided SOLELY on the basis of skills, experience, and disposition. In the UNLIKELY event that the two people should have exactly the same age, presentation, and qualifications, the decision would be based on the persons attitude, work ethic, and general disposition.
See, throwing a job at a person because of their race, IMO, make ME look like the stupid asshole...and in all honesty, I don't think I'd REALLY be doing the person any favours if I DID. I'm all about equal oppertunity in terms of race, but that's exactly where the buck stops EQUAL means EQUAL.


It's not like the reason behind giving jobs to black people over white people is a way to apologize or something. I just think that black people are still effected by slavery and that they are disadvantaged in some degree so that in the result of two equally qualified people, one white and one black, the black person should get the job. If you think that it's a stupid idea, that's fine by me. I'm out of this thread after this post because I'm in the serious minority here and that's no fun.

I'll agree that every spanish only speaking person should learn to speak english, but only on the same ground that english only speaking people should learn to speak spanish.

[bloodrayne]

Originally posted by Angelakillsluts
I'm out of this thread after this post because I'm in the serious minority here and that's no fun. Aww, but diversity, and opposing opinions is what makes discussion interesting...

I think we've had some awesome point/counterpoint going on here...

And I appreciate it


Thanks Guys:)

[Haunted]

I wanna say a little something about Japan and the Middle East...

You can't immigrate to Japan. If you marry a Japanese citizen, you are still an American living in Japan. You can't become Japanese. However, you can live in America and Japanese- American. Strange little flip, that.

You've all heard of the Crusades: A bunch of nut-hatchs marching into the Middle East (at the behest of a nut-hatch Pope) slaughtering thousands in the name of God, and attempting to snatch the land out from under the peope because the Europeans had deemed the area, "The Holy Land." Oh yeah, and said nut-hatches would often stop along the way and slaughter the Jews that lived in Europe.

Now, it's the Muslims breeding nut-hatches. If they were able, and Iran is really putting forth the effort (fascist asshole government) to pretty much do the same thing except not because they consider the US and Europe as "holy," but because of the opposite. They think we're evil.

Funny how history plays out. As you probably know, I'm not taking up for the terrorists/extremists by any means. I think killing in the name of any deity is stupid. I think killing people, period, is stupid. I'd like to beat up a terrorist/Jihad extremist. I'd also like to beat up most of the hoity-toity shmucks in Europe during the times of the Crusades.

[meetthecreeper]

This thread makes my head hurt.

Blacks use slavery as an excuse. Give them their 40 acres and a mule and then tell them thats it not another fuckin word about it.

Social programs were invented by hoity toity white folks who feel bad for the have nots because they have more than need and deserve.

If Babs Striesand is so damn concerned about the poor, the downtrodden and the weak then maybe she should get her lazy beak out of her limo, sell her million dollar homes and give all the money away and go live with the Tibetan Monks.

She expects everyone else to do it, but not her. Yes I know she gives alot to charity, so do I. And my guess is by percentage I give an assload more. But you dont see my face on the tele telling everyone what I have done.

She along with Oprah are too busy stroking their egos.

Give the folks a hand up not a hand out. never mind that teaching a man to fish thing.

[newb]

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slaveowners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood. I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a desert state, sweltering with the heat of injustice and oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice. I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I have a dream today.

I have a dream that one day the state of Alabama, whose governor's lips are presently dripping with the words of interposition and nullification, will be transformed into a situation where little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls and walk together as sisters and brothers. I have a dream today. I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight, and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together. This is our hope. This is the faith with which I return to the South. With this faith we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day.

This will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with a new meaning, "My country, 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing. Land where my fathers died, land of the pilgrim's pride, from every mountainside, let freedom ring." And if America is to be a great nation, this must become true. So let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire. Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York. Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania! Let freedom ring from the snowcapped Rockies of Colorado! Let freedom ring from the curvaceous peaks of California! But not only that; let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia! Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee! Let freedom ring from every hill and every molehill of Mississippi. From every mountainside, let freedom ring.

When we let freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"


:D