Jon Benet Ramsey

[bloodrayne]

I know this issue is very old...But, it's never really been resolved...So, I was wondering what your opinions were since we never discussed it here...


You guys think they did it?


I think so...

[AUSTIN316426808]

nevermind

[Angra]

...... Enlighten me, i´m danish.:) :rolleyes:

[newb]

Her name was an amalgam of the first and middle names of her father, John Bennet Ramsey.

Her mother Patsy was a former Miss West Virginia.

JonBenet, who was killed on Christmas Eve, was once crowned Little Miss Christmas.

JonBenet's death was the only murder in Boulder, Colorado, in 1996.

Patsy Ramsey said she sensed something was wrong when she couldn't find JonBenet in her bed on the morning of her murder. As Patsy searched the house, she found a ransom note on a back staircase.

The rambling note demanded that the Ramseys pay $118,000 in ransom if they wanted their daughter back alive.

Detectives found a broken window in the rear of the house but thought no adult could fit through the hole. And they didn't find any footprints in the newly fallen snow.

JonBenet was found dead on the floor of a small room called "the wine cellar," her mouth covered with duct tape. Her hands were tied behind her back. A noose-like garrote made with one of Patsy's paintbrushes was found around her badly bruised neck. Her skull appeared to have been crushed.

John ripped the tape off of JonBenet's mouth and carried the body upstairs. Police later moved the body to the base of the Christmas tree. Crucial evidence was possibly lost or tainted.

Boulder police rejected an offer of help from Denver police, a police department with far more experience investigating homicides.

John and Pasty took JonBenet's body to Marietta, Georgia, where she was buried under the watchful eye of the Boulder police and the media.

The appearance of videos of JonBenet performing in her various beauty pageants fed the public's hunger for information about her murder. In the videos, she was heavily made up, and she dressed and danced provocatively.

JonBenet's autopsy report revealed that she had been sexually assaulted before her death and that she exhibited signs of prior abuse.

John and Patsy offered a $100,000 reward for information leading to the arrest and conviction of their daughter's killer.

Investigators could not find anyone who matched the DNA found under the fingernails of JonBenet's corpse. Nor could they trace fibers found at the scene.

In 1997, the Ramseys moved back to Georgia without ever having been interviewed by the Boulder police.

In April 2003, a new district attorney issued a statement that a review of the evidence indicated that JonBenet was probably murdered by an intruder, rather her parents.

The case remains unsolved.

[AUSTIN316426808]

I haven't heard anything about it in so long I kinda forgot alot about it but newbs post kinda jolted my memory on some of the issue. I remember the father seemed very unconvincing. To me it looked like they were those ''showbiz parents'' who force thier kid into things and literally whip them into shape and one day it got out of hand.(Well I guess you could say more out of hand)

[Angra]

Originally posted by newb
Her name was an amalgam of the first and middle names of her father, John Bennet Ramsey.

Her mother Patsy was a former Miss West Virginia.

JonBenet, who was killed on Christmas Eve, was once crowned Little Miss Christmas.

JonBenet's death was the only murder in Boulder, Colorado, in 1996.

Patsy Ramsey said she sensed something was wrong when she couldn't find JonBenet in her bed on the morning of her murder. As Patsy searched the house, she found a ransom note on a back staircase.

The rambling note demanded that the Ramseys pay $118,000 in ransom if they wanted their daughter back alive.

Detectives found a broken window in the rear of the house but thought no adult could fit through the hole. And they didn't find any footprints in the newly fallen snow.

JonBenet was found dead on the floor of a small room called "the wine cellar," her mouth covered with duct tape. Her hands were tied behind her back. A noose-like garrote made with one of Patsy's paintbrushes was found around her badly bruised neck. Her skull appeared to have been crushed.

John ripped the tape off of JonBenet's mouth and carried the body upstairs. Police later moved the body to the base of the Christmas tree. Crucial evidence was possibly lost or tainted.

Boulder police rejected an offer of help from Denver police, a police department with far more experience investigating homicides.

John and Pasty took JonBenet's body to Marietta, Georgia, where she was buried under the watchful eye of the Boulder police and the media.

The appearance of videos of JonBenet performing in her various beauty pageants fed the public's hunger for information about her murder. In the videos, she was heavily made up, and she dressed and danced provocatively.

JonBenet's autopsy report revealed that she had been sexually assaulted before her death and that she exhibited signs of prior abuse.

John and Patsy offered a $100,000 reward for information leading to the arrest and conviction of their daughter's killer.

Investigators could not find anyone who matched the DNA found under the fingernails of JonBenet's corpse. Nor could they trace fibers found at the scene.

In 1997, the Ramseys moved back to Georgia without ever having been interviewed by the Boulder police.

In April 2003, a new district attorney issued a statement that a review of the evidence indicated that JonBenet was probably murdered by an intruder, rather her parents.

The case remains unsolved.

Wauw, that´s one hell of a christmas story..

What i don´t get is this:

"JonBenet's autopsy report revealed that she had been sexually assaulted before her death and that she exhibited signs of prior abuse".

Why would her parents do that and how could the police see signs of prior abuse???

[AUSTIN316426808]

Originally posted by Angra

Why would her parents do that

Of course it hasn't been proven that they did but for the sake of arguement.....If you can kill your child, you're basically capable of anything.



Originally posted by Angra
and how could the police see signs of prior abuse???


If there's markings on her body that date before the ''kidnapping''.

[Angra]

Originally posted by AUSTIN316426808
Of course it hasn't been proven that they did but for the sake of arguement.....If you can kill your child, you're basically capable of anything.






If there's markings on her body that date before the ''kidnapping''.


So you´re saying that "prior" in this context means a few days ago?

[scouse mac]

hello there, im new to this site an feel a little awkward jumping in on other peoples conversations but we've had several documentaries about this case on british tv. Always had serious doubts about anyone who shows their young daughter in beauty pageants. Seem to recall JonBenet's mother being especially pushy and competitive

[Angra]

Originally posted by scouse mac
hello there, im new to this site an feel a little awkward jumping in on other peoples conversations but we've had several documentaries about this case on british tv. Always had serious doubts about anyone who shows their young daughter in beauty pageants. Seem to recall JonBenet's mother being especially pushy and competitive

So what´s your guess, stranger?

[AUSTIN316426808]

Originally posted by Angra
So you´re saying that "prior" in this context means a few days ago?



Well now you've managed to not only be completely confused as usual but you got me confused now too.



I think so, don't remember how long it was before they found her body.

[bloodrayne]

Originally posted by Angra
Wauw, that´s one hell of a christmas story..

What i don´t get is this:

"JonBenet's autopsy report revealed that she had been sexually assaulted before her death and that she exhibited signs of prior abuse".

Why would her parents do that and how could the police see signs of prior abuse??? Medical records showed that she had been to the doctor many times for urinary tract infections, bladder problems...She was a bedwetter.....I don't think the parent's really viewed her as a 'child' so much as a possession to be exploited for personal gain....When she exhibited normal childlike behavior (many children her age wet the bed) It irritated them, they didn't want to deal with it, it was 'unattractive':rolleyes: .

..Sooo, many people have theorized that she wet the bed, the night before Christmas, while her parents were throwing a huge party for the rich folk, and Patsy was NOT pleased about....It is commonly believed that one or both of them were 'punishing her' and he/she/they killed her (too much force, due to anger)

...Then, the two of them together worked to cover it up, and make it look like something else....Patsy's handwriting matched the handwriting on the ransom note, the note was written on John's personal legal pad of paper, the amount of money mentioned in the demand was the exact same amount of a bonus that John was about to receive, the amount of which only John and Patsy knew about.....There's LOTS more...But, I hate typing...

Oh..And no matter which of them did it...They both HAD to know about it...Making them each just as guilty in my eyes...The fact that they hired a lawyer, refused to answer questions or cooperate with investigaters, and left the state when the focus turned toward them (which is actually common, family members are always questioned first) didn't help to make them look any less guilty either...

[scouse mac]

My guess would be look very close to home, couldn't say if the parents did it but a close family member in these cases is usually the one

[AUSTIN316426808]

Originally posted by bloodrayne
the note was written on John's personal legal pad of paper


That's just off the wall stupid.

[Angra]

Originally posted by bloodrayne
Medical records showed that she had been to the doctor many times for urinary tract infections, bladder problems...She was a bedwetter.....I don't think the parent's really viewed her as a 'child' so much as a possession to be exploited for personal gain....When she exhibited normal childlike behavior (many children her age wet the bed) It irritated them, they didn't want to deal with it, it was 'unattractive':rolleyes: .

..Sooo, many people have theorized that she wet the bed, the night before Christmas, while her parents were throwing a huge party for the rich folk, and Patsy was NOT pleased about....It is commonly believed that one or both of them were 'punishing her' and he/she/they killed her (too much force, due to anger)

...Then, the two of them together worked to cover it up, and make it look like something else....Patsy's handwriting matched the handwriting on the ransom note, the note was written on John's personal legal pad of paper, the amount of money mentioned in the demand was the exact same amount of a bonus that John was about to receive, the amount of which only John and Patsy knew about.....There's LOTS more...But, I hate typing...

Oh..And no matter which of them did it...They both HAD to know about it...Making them each just as guilty in my eyes...The fact that they hired a lawyer, refused to answer questions or cooperate with investigaters, and left the state when the focus turned toward them (which is actually common, family members are always questioned first) didn't help to make them look any less guilty either...


That´s some good material for a horror/crime movie right there.


But what about the sexual abuse?

[newb]

Originally posted by scouse mac
My guess would be look very close to home, couldn't say if the parents did it but a close family member in these cases is usually the one

My guess as well.

[The_Return]

I gotta agree that I think it was the mother. But there is some rather intriguing evidance that points in all directions....whoever it was certainly covered their tracks well.

[Angra]

Originally posted by newb
My guess as well.


I just can´t imagine both her parents sexually abusing her and then kill her..... That´s just too horrible...... Why would they?

[bloodrayne]

Originally posted by Angra
But what about the sexual abuse? My guess....Something was done to make it look like a different type of crime...OR she actually was a sexually abused child (sadly, that's more common than most people would believe), but I would say if that were the case, it was the father (the abuse, not necessarily the murder), he always acted VERY nervous and jumpy when questioned...Many sexually abused children are bedwetters, that's why when a child has chronic urinary tract infections, or any type of recurring infection in 'that area' doctors are instructed to 'ask questions or report it'...It's usually viewed as 'suspicious'


And neither parent had any objection to dressing her up to look like a tiny child prostitute, and putting her on display...That part is more than obvious...

[scouse mac]

Originally posted by Angra
I just can´t imagine both her parents sexually abusing her and then kill her..... That´s just too horrible...... Why would they? The father carries out the abuse with the full knowledge of the mother, goes too far and a cover up must be done to protect the rest of the family from the truth. unfortunately its not an uncommon sequence of events just this one recieved a shit load more publicity

[AUSTIN316426808]

Originally posted by Angra
I just can´t imagine both her parents sexually abusing her and then kill her..... That´s just too horrible...... Why would they?


Same reason that woman drowned her kids, Off thier fucking rocker. You realize this wouldn't be a first right?

[AUSTIN316426808]

Originally posted by scouse mac
The father carries out the abuse with the full knowledge of the mother, goes too far and a cover up must be done to protect the rest of the family from the truth. unfortunately its not an uncommon sequence of events just this one recieved a shit load more publicity


That's what I think happened, it said her skull was crushed, so to me it looks like he really lost it that day and did something more fucked up than he already was.

[Angra]

Originally posted by AUSTIN316426808
Same reason that woman drowned her kids, Off thier fucking rocker.


Eh??

But isn´t sexual abuse mostly done by 1 parent (commonly the dad)? I´ve never heard of cases where both parents are sexually abusing there child? But if it is so, why the brutal killing? That´s so... Horrible..:(

[AUSTIN316426808]

Originally posted by Angra
Eh??

But isn´t sexual abuse mostly done by 1 parent (commonly the dad)? I´ve never heard of cases where both parents are sexually abusing there child? But if it is so, why the brutal killing? That´s so... Horrible..:(


Ya know, you'd make a real crappy detective....

^read Rayne and scouse mac posts.

[scouse mac]

Originally posted by Angra
Eh??

But isn´t sexual abuse mostly done by 1 parent (commonly the dad)? I´ve never heard of cases where both parents are sexually abusing there child? But if it is so, why the brutal killing? That´s so... Horrible..:( dont think anyones saying the mother carried out the abuse but was responsible by not acting against it, assuming they did it of course

[newb]

Originally posted by scouse mac
The father carries out the abuse with the full knowledge of the mother, goes too far and a cover up must be done to protect the rest of the family from the truth. unfortunately its not an uncommon sequence of events just this one recieved a shit load more publicity

You are very astute, new person...may i call you..scouse mac?

[scouse mac]

Originally posted by newb
You are very astute, new person...may i call you..scouse mac? Of course!

[scouse mac]

Originally posted by AUSTIN316426808
Ya know, you'd make a real crappy detective....

^read Rayne and scouse mac posts. Appreciate the nod in direction

[Angra]

Originally posted by scouse mac
dont think anyones saying the mother carried out the abuse but was responsible by not acting against it, assuming they did it of course

But why?

[scouse mac]

Originally posted by Angra
But why? Thats the question every regular person asks. Who knows what drives people to do the things they do. Whoever did it is clearly a twisted fuck

[Angra]

Originally posted by scouse mac
Thats the question every regular person asks. Who knows what drives people to do the things they do. Whoever did it is clearly a twisted fuck


Right said.

[pinkfloyd45769]

I think it was the parents too, they could have hired someone to do it. I almost forgot all about this, are they still investigating?

[Dude Guadalupe]

The parents did it and got away with it by blaming someone that doesn't exist......I think they are friends with OJ now or something.

[scouse mac]

Originally posted by Dude Guadalupe
The parents did it and got away with it by blaming someone that doesn't exist......I think they are friends with OJ now or something. Here's hoping they wake up everynight screaming in agonising pain.

[meetthecreeper]

I believe the father was molesting the child. I dont believe that Patsy knew about the molestation until the day she was murdered.

I believe that Patsy killed her daughter in a fit of jealous rage, and then both parents worked to cover up the crime and make it look like someone else had done it.

According to a police report the basement window was broken from the inside.

It is also my understanding that the father is politcially connected. They also have a shitload of money.

Its real easy to get away with murder if you have money and are "connected".

The Boulder police department is inept and corrupt. Why were the Ramseys not questioned??? MONEY. Thats why.


I only wish a long painful death for both of those people. Like cancer. Personally I would like to have a few days in a room alone with the both of them. I am quite sure that I could get the truth out of them.

I have never hit a woman in my life but in Patsy Ramseys case I will make a special exception.

Yea and that goes for you too Susan Smith.

[Dude Guadalupe]

Originally posted by scouse mac
Here's hoping they wake up everynight screaming in agonising pain. Indeed

[ItsAlive75]

Originally posted by meetthecreeper
I have never hit a woman in my life but in Patsy Ramseys case I will make a special exception.


Isn't it kinda funny that her name is Patsy? She knows about the beatings and doesn't do or say anything, then helps her husband cover it up... Kinda fitting..

That and its just a stupid name for a person in general.

[meetthecreeper]

Originally posted by ItsAlive75
Isn't it kinda funny that her name is Patsy? She knows about the beatings and doesn't do or say anything, then helps her husband cover it up... Kinda fitting..

That and its just a stupid name for a person in general.

Agreed.

Lucky for her that we will probably never meet. I would love to destroy her mind, by torturing her with graphic images of the daughter that she murdered.

[ItsAlive75]

Originally posted by meetthecreeper
Agreed.

Lucky for her that we will probably never meet. I would love to destroy her mind, by torturing her with graphic images of the daughter that she murdered.

I'd go more lowbrow.

I'd just have a hatchet.

[meetthecreeper]

Originally posted by ItsAlive75
I'd go more lowbrow.

I'd just have a hatchet.

a dull rusty one.


How about a bent spoon? That has dried scrambled eggs on it??

[ItsAlive75]

Originally posted by meetthecreeper
a dull rusty one.

How about a bent spoon? That has dried scrambled eggs on it??

hahaha... I dunno, I probably wouldn't kill her. I'd just take her fingers off or something. Either that or mess up her face.

Her husband though... I'd go apeshit on that guy. Nobody kills kids, only monsters do that.

[Angra]

You know...... You two guys are equally twisted. You should work together.;)

[ItsAlive75]

Originally posted by Angra
You know...... You two guys are equally twisted. You should work together.;)

My guess would be Creeper works alone.

[meetthecreeper]

Originally posted by ItsAlive75
My guess would be Creeper works alone.

Hey I know we could make it like a tag team match.

Mostly I work alone, but I need someone to videotape the moment for posterity.

[ItsAlive75]

Originally posted by meetthecreeper
Hey I know we could make it like a tag team match.

Mostly I work alone, but I need someone to videotape the moment for posterity.

I'll agree under the grounds that you work the tape the other half.

I didn't build these calluses up to be holdin' a damn camera the entire time.:D

[noctuary]

Just thinking about this case saddens me. I find the whole practice of children's beauty pageants to be quite offensive, especially when taken to such extremes. There's little doubt in my mind that the parents murdered the poor child, but I'm sure they'll never answer for their crimes. Makes me want to believe in karma.

[meetthecreeper]

Originally posted by ItsAlive75
I'll agree under the grounds that you work the tape the other half.

I didn't build these calluses up to be holdin' a damn camera the entire time.:D

OK but you have to film everything postmortem. Thats when I do my best work, its almost shakespearian. (Is that even a word)

Now all we need is a Gaffer, Best Boy, and a Boom Operator and we have a great film oppurtunity.

[bloodrayne]

I just love it when the whole world KNOWS someone is guilty...But, Their money gets them off anyway...


What a farce:rolleyes: