creating 'truths'

[Gren the cake]

I got to thinking about this, mainly in the case of religion. It's interesting, the difference between what we see, what we perceive, and what is really 'there.' (i put that in quotes, because usually... there is no true 'is.' Most things aren't black or white).

Here's an example: I met a guy on sunday who works at the same wildlife place as I. Great guy, really friendly, been screwed over too many times in life. Anyway, we had lunch at a sushi buffet and were talkin. We both love animals, and while we were eating shrimp he asked me if I ever ate a crawdad (No, I haven't).

He told me when he was about 10 (he's 34 now), he had gone to the pond over by my house. This was back when i was about 3.. LOL! Before my house was built, back when it was all desertish. He had gone crawdad fishing. He caught about 300 or so and put them in a bucket, with a plan to cook them all when he got home.

He was about a block away from the pond when he thought 'I'm not sure my mom would dig this idea.' (No, not those exact words). Anyway, being a dumb, 10 year old boy, he took the bucket, dumped it on the median, and started to walk away. HE watched the crabs, and they all turned around, and started walking in the direction of the pond.

This area wasn't very developed, so there weren't many cars. But of course, a few came by. At first I thought he'd say they ran the crabs Over. But no, he said that the cars wuld STOP and people would come out, gawking at all the crabs. They would call out their kids and say "Hey kids! Check out the crab migration!' and from there went on "Every fall the crabs....". Meanwhile, he's behind a bush with his bucket, laughing his ass off

So I'm thinking, that was 20 some odd years ago. Those people are still probably remembering that, and every so often they will go to the zoo with their kids and say something like 'Son, thats a crawdad! I remember back in 86 when I watched them migrate. They do that every fall ya know! But I've never seen them do that again... must've been a strange season.' From there, their kids will 'know', as well as friends... who will all 'know' about the great crawdad migration of SD.

LOL. Anyway, back to religion. I don't doubt that a lot of those people existed, as well as most of the events. But as for beliefs? Like blood transfusions. I know this doesn't pertain to all religions, not even all of Christiniaty, but in the bible that Jehovah Witnesses are reading, they aren't allowed to participate in any sort of blood transactions - giving or receiving. It says so in their version of the bible (I have it, but it's underneath my bed so I can't get to it). Anyway, go back to history. There's a word called sanitation. Back then, even a routine procedure such as an examination was dangerous, because they did not know anything about tiny, microscopic organisms that can get you sick (germs). THey would go from patient to patient. In the case of blood transfusions? FUck yeh that shit would be dirty.

Same goes with muslims and pork (is it muslims?). Pork, even recently, is viewed as a pretty dirty meat. You can eat steak pretty rare, but there's a reason you hafto thoroughly cook pork (trich).

My aunt loves luciano pavarotti. She's in the Phils. Another Aunt of mine had gone to NY and bought a book all about him. She came back here and as they were packing the stuff, my mom told her 'Hey, you should sign the book for her.' So she signed Pavarotti. A few weeks later, she gets a call from my aunt, whos crying 'I CANT BELIEVE IT. I LOVE PAVAROTTI THANK YOU SO MUCH.' She had no heart to tell her otherwise. But now look? SHe's gonna live the rest of her life thinking she has an autographed book of Pavarrotti.

Ok, I'm not at al stating that i know EVERYTHING, but I like to question things. A while ago, there was a thread in true crime about a teacher who told the kids that the world was coming to an end, and they all immediately started crying. I would've asked some fuckinq uestions before i started crying. Granted, they coulda been young and dumb, But I'm pretty sure in that case they were 14. 14? That's 9th grade dude..

Anyway, just some thoughts I thuoght I'd type out.

So if there's anything you've learned, is Yes, crawdad's can sense water but No, they do not migrate (at least, not in SD)

[filmmaker2]

Isn't it true that if you remove a cat or dog from its environment, even take it miles away, it will home in on its old home and start on its way back? I think i read that somewheres. Animals are just smart that way. They have a natural location intelligence.

OMG, you know, that story reminded me of when we had a crawfish we caught somewhere, and we put in in this fishtank we had, and the damn thing got feisty and crawled out of the tank.

How he got out of there I do not know, he did something clever and I can't imagine how he did it, because he was pretty small and would have had to lift the lid somehow...well, anyway, we never could figure out exactly how he escaped the tank, it seemed impossible, but somehow he did it. I remember everyone was surprised, later.

I was a little kid at the time and was home by myself, and suddenly I see this red lobster thing crawling towards me, I thought the crayfish was on the rampage and was going to do something horrible to me and anything within reach of its claws.

Anyway so I scream and run away and lock myself in the bedroom. That freaky lobster wasn't getting ME! No way. God damn!

Turned out he made it as far as the kitchen and then flipped over, he had dried out I guess. Poor little thingie.

Years later I took a girlfriend over to Griffith Park and they have this stream running down from the mountain, and I look down there and by golly, it's one of those lobsters again, and it's looking at us from under the water, probably thinking we couldn't see it. "Hey check it out!" I say. I sort of moved to get a closer look, and he scooted under a rock and turned into a shadow.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by Gren the cake
Same goes with muslims and pork (is it muslims?). Pork, even recently, is viewed as a pretty dirty meat. You can eat steak pretty rare, but there's a reason you hafto thoroughly cook pork (trich).



muslims and jews dont eat pork ... 2 extremely old religions/people
... the pig wallows in its own waste .. way back in the day it would commonly have a worm (i think it's simply called pork worm) and other diseases .. (trichonosis ?? spelling ??) could be had by eating pork.

Most ancient beliefs have foundations in health safety. It often required the word of god to steer them in the right directions.
(for their own good)

this is where religion and law and education first began to merge paths

[Haunted]

Actually, Islam isn't that old. It was founded after the advent of Christianity. Comparatively, when you count the new uprising of ancient tribal religions, and the revamping of ancient Egyptian, Summerian, Roman, and Greek traditions, Judaism isn't that old either.

Eventhough Hinduism isn't just one religion, it's still probably the oldest surviving (in several groups original orchestration) on Earth. Sanskrit is the oldest ancestor still spoken of English and the Romance languages (French, Spanish, Italian, and Romanian)

Also, the Chinese shamanic practices which led to Taoism and Confusionism are pretty fuckin' old too.

Our Western mindsets tend to stop on the Abrahamic traditions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam), when in fact, these religions are the newest traditions.

Also, Buddhism was established closer to the time of Judaism. It was a BCE religion (before common era) making it older than both Christianity and Islam.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by Haunted
Actually, Islam isn't that old. It was founded after the advent of Christianity. Comparatively, when you count the new uprising of ancient tribal religions, and the revamping of ancient Egyptian, Summerian, Roman, and Greek traditions, Judaism isn't that old either.

Eventhough Hinduism isn't just one religion, it's still probably the oldest surviving (in several groups original orchestration) on Earth. Sanskrit is the oldest ancestor still spoken of English and the Romance languages (French, Spanish, Italian, and Romanian)

Also, the Chinese shamanic practices which led to Taoism and Confusionism are pretty fuckin' old too.

Our Western mindsets tend to stop on the Abrahamic traditions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam), when in fact, these religions are the newest traditions.

Also, Buddhism was established closer to the time of Judaism. It was a BCE religion (before common era) making it older than both Christianity and Islam.


well, they were old enough to be around when the pig was an unclean animal and dangerous to eat ...

(especially in that part of the world - where it was hot all of the time)

[Gren the cake]

so they had problems with pigs but not chickens? then again, my knowledge of chickens is wanting, but i'll hafto check it out

Film - My neighbors dog Woody (i think he may be dead by now :/... otherwise he'd be an old fella!!) would wander from george's hous to ________'s house (her name escapes me, but they are divorced.) thats about 1-2 miles. LOL. not THAT big a difference but he would go from house to house all the time. Also, I had 2 turtles that woudl escape my pond, but one came back.

Anyway,, back to religion. I'm bad with names, but that chick Lott's wife? The issue was, the peopel were being ultra sinful or whatever, so God set the town on fire, telling Lott, his family and perhaps a few others, to leave. THe important thing he said was 'RUn and don't loook back.' Lott's wife looked back, and she turned to salt. I have an issue with this. What's wrong with curiosity? The backbone of learning is curiosity. And I somehow doubt that back then they had these wonderful phone lines, firetrucks, and fireproof shingles that we have today. Easily, if one were to go up the whole fuckin thing could go up. Also, nowadays we have the fire mechanistry to find out where it started, how/when it started, and exactly what path it took.

Kinda brings me back to Native Americans. My 4th grade teacher loved that shit and we'd always read their folklores. For a while, they probably honestly thought that it was certain god's acting on things, creating fires, rains, thunder.. etc. But now we know...?

[urgeok]

well, that was another component of religion - explaining the unexplainable ..


what we call mythology and folklore now was once someone elses belief system.


i wonder at what time someone in the future will be looking at the written works and 'stories' of todays religions and referring to them as mythology, etc ..

[Haunted]

Well, religion is a strange creature. I think it happens in cycles, just like everything else. We saw polytheistic empires from the dawn of human convention. Those religions eventually gave over to the monotheistic religions and science. Now we're seeing the polytheistic traditions on the rise. Science is the one constant that is never constant itself.

I know that the mystic/mystery traditions that I belong to maintain their religiocity while trying to embrace science. I guess we want science to expand itself, and science wants us (and all religions) to grow up. However, every science professor I've ever had said that scientists don't know shit for absolute. It's all theory and tomorrow it could be disproven. I guess us magical folk wants science to expand itself to embrace mystery of things.

Here I am, Gren, after calling you a shithead, and now I'm actually enjoying your thread. I apologize, but I wish you maintain your introspectiveness. I swear that it's a lot more fun than eye makeup. ;) :)

[barbra]

Originally posted by urgeok
muslims and jews dont eat pork ... 2 extremely old religions/people
... the pig wallows in its own waste .. way back in the day it would commonly have a worm (i think it's simply called pork worm) and other diseases .. (trichonosis ?? spelling ??) could be had by eating pork.

thats a common mistake, the reason they don't eat pork isn't because a pig stays in mud all day, its because the pig doesn't sweat. Thats why pork is so salty, it never gets rid of the bad stuff in its body, their muscles marinate in it.

[newb]

Originally posted by barbra
thats a common mistake, the reason they don't eat pork isn't because a pig stays in mud all day, its because the pig doesn't sweat. Thats why pork is so salty, it never gets rid of the bad stuff in its body, their muscles marinate in it.

Thanks....you just ruined my bbq tonight.

[barbra]

Originally posted by newb
Thanks....you just ruined my bbq tonight. screw it, you love that salty goodness, its goes so great with beer.... mmm pork, crispy fat. You love the pig.

[urgeok]

Bad effects of pork consumption

Pig's bodies contain many toxins, worms and latent diseases. Although some of these infestations are harbored in other animals, modern veterinarians say that pigs are far more predisposed to these illnesses than other animals. This could be because pigs like to scavenge and will eat any kind of food, including dead insects, worms, rotting carcasses, excreta (including their own), garbage, and other pigs.

Influenza (flu) is one of the most famous illnesses which pigs share with humans. This illness is harbored in the lungs of pigs during the summer months and tends to affect pigs and humans in the cooler months. Sausage contains bits of pigs' lungs, so those who eat pork sausage tend to suffer more during epidemics of influenza. Pig meat contains excessive quantities of histamine and imidazole compounds, which can lead to itching and inflammation; growth hormone, which promotes inflammation and growth; sulphur-containing mesenchymal mucus, which leads to swelling and deposits of mucus in tendons and cartilage, resulting in arthritis, rheumatism, etc.

Sulfur helps cause firm human tendons and ligaments to be replaced by the pig's soft mesenchymal tissues, and degeneration of human cartilage. Eating pork can also lead to gallstones and obesity, probably due to its high cholesterol and saturated fat content. The pig is the main carrier of the taenia solium worm, which is found it its flesh. These tapeworms are found in human intestines with greater frequency in nations where pigs are eaten. This type of tapeworm can pass through the intestines and affect many other organs, and is incurable once it reaches beyond a certain stage. One in six people in the US and Canada has trichinosis from eating trichina worms which are found in pork. Many people have no symptoms to warn them of this, and when they do, they resemble symptoms of many other illnesses. These worms are not noticed during meat inspections, nor are they killed by salting or smoking. Few people cook the meat long enough to kill the trichinae. The rat (another scavenger) also harbors this disease. There are dozens of other worms, germs, diseases and bacteria which are commonly found in pigs, many of which are specific to the pig, or found in greater frequency in pigs.

Pigs are biologically similar to humans, and their meat is said to taste similar to human flesh. Pigs have been used for dissection in biology labs due to the similarity between their organs and human organs. People with insulin-dependent diabetes usually inject themselves with pig insulin.

[newb]

No really.....i was having pork on the grill tonight......pizza takeout is looking good.

[barbra]

Originally posted by newb
No really.....i was having pork on the grill tonight......pizza takeout is looking good. you should try baby, its the other pork.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by newb
No really.....i was having pork on the grill tonight......pizza takeout is looking good.

just cook it a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time

[filmmaker2]

Urge, that........that was inexcusable what you just did.

I will have nightmares about sausages for a week because of that little diatribe you went on.

You don't eat pork, do you?

Well some people do.

And some o' those people don't take kindly to folks messin' around with their minds in these here parts.

You're startin' a fistfight with a wildcat, my friend.

That's a fight that can't be won.

We's a be talkin' soon. You can believe thet.

Those are mighty big words fer a.......oh forget it.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by filmmaker2
Urge, that........that was inexcusable what you just did.

I will have nightmares about sausages for a week because of that little diatribe you went on.

You don't eat pork, do you?

Well some people do.

And some o' those people don't take kindly to folks messin' around with their minds in these here parts.

You're startin' a fistfight with a wildcat, my friend.

That's a fight that can't be won.

We's a be talkin' soon. You can believe thet.

Those are mighty big words fer a.......oh forget it.


i eat pork all the time .... i figure if i get 300 - 500 of those tape worms i can start losing some REAL weight !

[newb]

Here is proof that Canadians eat pork.

http://www.seriesam.com/barks/os048-00.jpg

[filmmaker2]

MOE. Gimme three pieces of burnt toast and a rotten egg.

CURLY. Three pieces of burnt toast and a rotten egg????

MOE. Yeah, I got a tape woim, and it's good enough fer 'em!

[Gren the cake]

Originally posted by Haunted
I apologize, but I wish you maintain your introspectiveness. I swear that it's a lot more fun than eye makeup. ;) :)
It's all about the balance (between intelligence and stupidity... and other stuff. i like to keep u motherfuckers on ur toes)

and FYI, the only make up I own, is a make up kit my cousin got me 3 christmas's ago. Every so often I'll put it on..... marilyn manson style (i know i posted those pics somewhere).

[Gren the cake]

People want an answer - hence, religion. Somewhere along the lines of life, someone thought 'what the hell happens when we die?' Couldn't answer it... and went into panic. OH NO!

Heres my questoin.. what's wrong with living in the mystery? What's wrong with enjoying life now, as opposed to worrying about somet hing that won't happen for years? (or minutes... or weeks...)

THe main issue I have religion, has to do with what i siad earlier - curiosity. Bulk of religions (namely, Christianity, as those are the people who have taken the time to try and convert me the most) aren't about questions. They want to tell you like it is, and to not question it. In some cases, they are even against questioning, even RESEARCHING other religions... as in 'it's satan tempting you, and you're showing that your interested and he will come into you!!!" OK, so lets break this down. Is it Satan your afraid of? Or are you afriad of someone reading into other religions, figuring out that your crap, and leaving your monkey ass behind?

WHy don't people just think? This is something I been thinking about for a while, I'm sure as others. Adam and Eve... The issue was, they were given everything, could take everything BUT the fruit of the 'tree of knowledge.' because appraently, learning is a bad thing.

Snake..... Eve... Adam, finally got to eating it. Oh no! The enlightenment! What happened? THey realized that they were naked, and clothed themselves with leaves.

Let's get into biology for a second. Dogs have fur, cats have fur, birds have feathers, turtles - shells etc... Rhinos, elephants, and pigs roll around in mud all day, Why? Protection. Balls, cooters and nipples are ultra sensitive. We werent given the natural cover, but the brains to create our own. Rain, heat, even wind can really get ya. Hence - clothes. Did it have much to do with shame back in the day? I really don't think so.

Same goes with bras. There was that time where bitches were burning their bras (i have no problem referring to them as bitches). 2 syllables - SUP-PORT. Guys wear underwear becuz their privates are jigglin around, and even as inadequately boobed as I am, i have huge fuckin nipples which get cold easily, and it's annoying havin em Jiggle all the time.

Sometimes.. people just delve wayyyyyy too deeply into shit. (eg, that bitch that Barbra sent me a link of.. the one who paints with period blood. But i'm tooo lazy to get into that right now. I'd love to leave her some bloody pressents on her porch. THen agian, knowing her, she'd probably make a statue or something out of em) :(

[Haunted]

I was just kidding about the eye makeup. You said a looong time ago that you weren't into makeup that much. Hey, if you've got good skin go for it.

Gren, you pose a lot of questions that people have about Christianity. Did you know that besides Zorastrianism (and now Islam) religion in history that has an evil deity? No other traditions really needed them, even the ancient Egyptians didn't rely to heavily upon "bad" gods. Christianity only adopted an "evil" god to cause problems amongst the people they tried to convert.

As for Eve and the apple/forbidden fruit...
There are two stories in Genisis about the creation. The first one didn't harbor the notion of "original sin," while the other much LATER tradition did. Why? Look at the framers of early organized religion and you'll find your answer. Power. Some are select; some are inferior.

Early monotheistic cultures followed those of the polytheistic kind. Most of those polytheistic religions were equal- Goddesses and Gods. Later, the world began to change gears. The Abrahamic traditions had to compete with several Goddess cultures. They wanted the feminine out of the picture. Thus all three of them picture woman as submissive and less "holy" than men.

Soap box over...You may now return to your regular scheduled programming.

[Gren the cake]

I only focus on christianity, as those are the only people I have ever been able to speak to. I guess what I'm saying, Is I can read about whatever, but I'm much more interested in having chats with people.

I always wanted to take this class called 'World Religions' but it never fit into my schedule. As in, any of my graduation or transfer requirements. As much as I'd love to, I've got priorities...

:/