Would you sugar-coat it?

[ChEEbA]

I know this is a pretty long thread...but hey, stick with me if you can, folks...
This is an issue I have thought about a lot in tha past, especially during my primary and high-school years.
However, after recently viewing the pilot episode of the short lived "freaks and geeks", it got me thinking about this again.

There's a retarded kid in the show, not a MAIN character or anything, but yeah, he's there...so, at one point a couple of guys are messin' around with him for a laugh, not anything TOO kinda cruel, just kinda laughing at his expense.
(Now I gotta say that if the person playing this role DOESN'T actually suffer a mental handicap, he's a brilliant actor)
One of the main characters of the show, a girl, approaches them to tell the guys to quit makin' fun of him, and tries to explain the whole "theyre laughing AT you" concept to the guy, and chooses to put it pretty bluntly "they're not your friends, theyre only laughing at you because you're retarded".

Immediately, the kid turns to his "friends", and is clearly embarrassed, and tries to convince them
"I'm not retarded you know, I'm just special"
Again and again he says it before getting upset and running off.
*STOP*
Now, this is what bothers me...well, I'm not sure if it BOTHERS me, but it makes me ponder nonetheless...Clearly this character was going into defense mode, by saying something he'd been told by parents/guardians, or perhaps school counsellors, or something of that nature.
When I saw this, I remembered back to my school and high-school days, where throughout my time, I had attended verious schools, and all together throughout my primary and high-school years, I would've attended at one point or another with maybe 3 retarded kids in some of the schools, and like 2 autistic kids.
Whenever someone slipped up and used the "insensetive" terminology, they'd either be reassured by a teacher, or stand up and state themselves that they were "special", or something akin to that anyhow. "different" was about the most appropriote term I ever heard used in this case.

Now, I was never one of the asshole kids that made fun of anyone with ANY kind of disability, but I have to admit, I always wondered what the fuck the deal was with this shit...I mean, sure, it could avert a potential tantrum, or upsetting the child in question, but that's only very short term kinda thing.
I mean, if the parents were straight with them from the get-go, this wouldn't be something that would upset them right? I mean, it's not as though you can't talk to these people, it's just a matter of a little extra perseverance, right? I used to tutor one of the retarded kids in basic reading and writing stuff in early highschool, so I'm aware that they're not by any means brainless or dense...things can take some explaining, but stuff gets through, in some cases easier than others.

So, my deal is...parents and teachers...etc that sugar-coat this information to their child...who are they doing it for, the kid, or themselves? And, in the long term, does this really benefit the individual, or simply avert minor crisis after crisis?
Personally, I consider it withholding vital information, but that's just me. I'm not a parent...I don't know how different my perspective would be.

So, I want perspectives from both parents, and non parents alike.

Would you sugar-coat it?
If so, OR of not, please state your reasons for and what you perceive to be the reasons AGAINST your decision.
Sorry to hit y'all with this...but it's ALWAYS played in the back of my mind...


- B

[AUSTIN316426808]

Everybody has that one thing that just sets them off whether it be height,weight,race,sexual orientation ect. and when those assholes find it they don't stop because they're having too much fun from you being pissed. I would suspect that for most autistic children that one thing would be their autism and whether it's been sugar coated for them by parents/guardians/teachers or not it's still going to hurt and it's still going to piss the kid off.

When the assholes at my school found out that I couldn't play football anymore because of my knee they knew I loved football more than anything else(family and friends aside of course) I played, coached a little league team with my dad,trained my cousin(and still do), talked about it all day ect. ect. They knew that and they preyed on it like vultures day after day. I knew what the problem was the doctor didn't sugar coat it and tell me that maybe I'll be able to play again or anything like that he just plain and simply said ''sorry son but it's over'', so when I got picked on about it I knew it was over and what they were saying was true but it still hurt like hell to hear it over and over.

I know autism is severly different from my situation but the point I'm trying to make is that it doesn't matter if it's sugar coated or not it still hurts like hell. I think for the most part they understand what's going on and just don't want to be called whatever inappropriate,useless and moronic thing they're being called. Say you're talking with an autistic child and the subject is brought up of their condition, I'm sure if you say autistic,different or any other suttle and appropriate term they wouldn't mind too much but if you start the conversation with ''It must be hard being slow'' or any other foolish comment that jackasses have to say then I'm sure they'd get pissed.

The way to resolve the problem is to have as small of an amount of tollerrance as possible in schools. Tell the kid about his/herself, tell the parents,give 'em a month of detention and a week of suspension. Three strikes and you're out, I don't think it's harsh at all because the bottom line is the fuckers shouldn't be doing it in the first place so why take it easy on 'em when they do it.

[ChEEbA]

Thankyou for taking the time to reply at such lengths.
I totally agree, children can be assholes, and tolerance for that which is different isn't widely preached...I mean, sure, they don't get the full implications of what they are doing, but all the same, a lot of kids could use some better upbringing.
I get that it IS about the way you approach it, as with many conditions and situations, however...I'm still confused as to why it has to be sugar coated...like, I guess it's the parents individual point of view, but for the record, personally, I'd be frank and direct with my child...teach them that "retarded", or whichever condition they are inflicted with isnt something to pass off as bullshit, to be taken seriously, and not to be ashamed of...but yeah, that's not to say that 20 other asshole kids wouldnt try to convince them otherwise...
I just can't really make sense of this on way or another, it seems that the outside influence would be there regardless of "sugar coating" things or not...maybe the problem is just the acceptance thing.
Unfortunate.

[AUSTIN316426808]

Originally posted by ChEEbA
Thankyou for taking the time to reply at such lengths.



No problem...


I probably would be straight with my kid too, explain the situation let 'em know it's nothing to be ashamed of and to be proud of who they are and fuck anybody who's got a problem with that.

[ChEEbA]

Guys, Austin has shed a lot of light on the subject...but I'd still like to get some more input here, from parents and non-parents alike, so if you have a moment...?

[ChEEbA]

I'm surprised...nobody with anything worth saying on this?

[meetthecreeper]

Ok I'll bite.

I was moved from the 4th grade into a behavior disorder class, because I was deemed hyperactive. Today would probably be called ADD.

I was in a class with kids that were problem children, ones who refused to do school work, misbehaved in class things of that nature.

I made best friends with a guy who you could say was mildly retarded, he actually has a speech impediment and was difficult to understand. He had difficulty communicating with others.

Funny thing is him and myself were both reading at a college level, while other kids were reading 'the little choo choo that could' we were reading books by Hawkings.

Fact was I was way ahead of the class and was bored with the education that I was getting. I am not trying to say that I was a genius or anything like that but I believe at that time I was way ahead of the curve in intel.

Not really sure what happened to that, seems over the years I am either not giving a shit anymore or am growing stupid.

But to get back to topic, my friend and I took alot of shit, people called us retards and so on. I dont believe it ever really bothered me, not sure of my friend though. The school had moved me out of that class for 5th grade and we lost touch soon after that.

I think people are generally cruel in a group, its the pack mentality, one trying to be the most popular in the group, being the funniest and so on.

I generally dont think the individual is going to come right out and say that someone is retarted or a mental case and such. I think individuals in most cases will do what they feel is right in their hearts.

I feel like the world has become politcally correct in a way that is damaging to society, most are afraid to say what they mean, not for fear of hurting someones feelings, but for fear of the persecution that goes along with it.

Most folks say what they really think behind closed doors, but in public they say what will keep them out of trouble.

In my case if my child was mentally ill, I dont think telling them that they are "special" is going to help them in life. When my kids misbehave in public, they are disciplined in public. I see alot of kids misbehaving in public and parents do nothing, I am starting to think the reason for this is because they dont want to be judged by people around them.

I say tell it like it is. The world is a cruel place. One can only shield someone from it for so long. Of course this doesnt mean we have to go out of our way to be cruel either just for the sake of being cruel.

Am I making any sense???

[barbra]

maybe Im missing the point but I think if a child has a mental handicap then you should treat that kid like any other kid. they still want to learn and play and its not like they will never be able to live their life.

you know, maybe the sugar coating isn't just for the kids. How would you feel if you fatherd a mentally deffecient child? would you want to call him/her retarded? The love for your child shouldn't be any less unless of course you are a bitter angry selfish individual.

Its good that schools try and teach tolerance and unity by 'sugar coating' with words. What if you had never had the experiance with those children in school? Would you be so understanding to their handicap? You would understand it even less than you do now certainly.

[meetthecreeper]

Originally posted by barbra
maybe Im missing the point but I think if a child has a mental handicap then you should treat that kid like any other kid. they still want to learn and play and its not like they will never be able to live their life.

you know, maybe the sugar coating isn't just for the kids. How would you feel if you fatherd a mentally deffecient child? would you want to call him/her retarded? The love for your child shouldn't be any less unless of course you are a bitter angry selfish individual.

Its good that schools try and teach tolerance and unity by 'sugar coating' with words. What if you had never had the experiance with those children in school? Would you be so understanding to their handicap? You would understand it even less than you do now certainly.

My friend didnt want to be thought of as special, he just wanted to be like everyone else and be left alone.

I think being called special or other 'sugar coating' just causes more problems than it solves.

[ItsAlive75]

I work with a lot of people with mental disabilities, I actually manage 3 of them. I've been around people with disabilities my whole life, whether it be in school or at work, but these are three of the nicest guys I've ever met. And I don't mean that in a bullshit way because they're "special", I mean because they've all accepted their handicap to the point where they actually make fun of it themselves.

It's refreshing (and hilarious) to come into work every day and see these guys just rip on each other for their disabilities. They'll call each other "retard" and they'll all laugh, like how kids call each other "fag" or "dumbass". They've obviously gone through enough teasing and ostracizing in their lives that the word's negativity is just gone.

I know that's not the case for everyone with a physical or mental handicap, but I felt that would (and has been) covered pretty well. I just think it's a good sign that a person's genuine when their handicap isn't even a bother. Not to sound like an ass, but it makes it a whole lot easier for me to "watch my words" when a mentally handicapped person's calling himself a retard.

[ChEEbA]

you know, maybe the sugar coating isn't just for the kids. How would you feel if you fatherd a mentally deffecient child? would you want to call him/her retarded? The love for your child shouldn't be any less unless of course you are a bitter angry selfish individual.

If it's about the parent, well...in all honesty, fuck that, I consider THAT an act of a selfish individual, I mean if you gotta resort to not acknowledging the reality of a problem to make it somehow easier on yourself, rather than your child...that's not right.
From my current perspective, it would be my love of the child that would prompt me to let them understand the situation as fully as possible, so that they could deal with it in whatever manner they need to, and start from a fully informed first step.
"Retarded" has become such an ASSHOLE of a word since it has been used for derogatory means...I wouldn't really want to CALL them retarded, but I would want them to fully understand their condition...Honestly, when I saw these kids over the years, it was a shame, I felt like they'd been mislead - even back then, I always wondered what the deal was going on in the parents head. I couldn't see a reason then, nor can I now.
It always struck me as kind of like lying...I guess everyone had their own ways of viewing the matter, and all I can offer is my CURRENT perspective...but it'd seem to me that being completely honest and open with the child would better prepare them for life...because if they never associate their condition with an insult from the beggining, would they not be less likely to receive a rude awakening from someone who will not only NOT sugar-coat it, but try to degrade them simply by stating fact in an disrespectful manner?

I've yet to see any valid reasons for this strange parental ritual, folks...step right up and enlighten me, if you can...

[jenna26]

Originally posted by barbra
maybe Im missing the point but I think if a child has a mental handicap then you should treat that kid like any other kid. they still want to learn and play and its not like they will never be able to live their life.

you know, maybe the sugar coating isn't just for the kids. How would you feel if you fatherd a mentally deffecient child? would you want to call him/her retarded? The love for your child shouldn't be any less unless of course you are a bitter angry selfish individual.

Its good that schools try and teach tolerance and unity by 'sugar coating' with words. What if you had never had the experiance with those children in school? Would you be so understanding to their handicap? You would understand it even less than you do now certainly.

In an ideal world, that is exactly the way it would be. A handicapped child would be treated like any other child. People would relate to them simply as a human being. But the world is a cruel place, children can be especially cruel. And sometimes it just doesn't matter if they are taught tolerance; they seem to lash out at children that are obviously different from them almost instinctively. It doesn't help that many adults can't even display any real level of tolerance or compassion.

But I think that it is actually more about the parents than the children themselves. The parents suffer along with their children and it must be a hard issue to face as a parent. To know what kind of world your child lives in and know how cruel that world will be. But at that same time, they want to be kind to their children and love their children unconditionally. So what is the answer? Honesty and kindness can often be mutually exclusive. Parents might feel they are being cruel to their own child if they are too honest.

In the end, I think honesty is best. And I wish people would wise up and treat every child,hell every person, with the respect and kindness they deserve. But that will never happen, because people suck. :D

[AUSTIN316426808]

Originally posted by meetthecreeper


I think people are generally cruel in a group, its the pack mentality, one trying to be the most popular in the group, being the funniest and so on.

I generally dont think the individual is going to come right out and say that someone is retarted or a mental case and such. I think individuals in most cases will do what they feel is right in their hearts.





I don't agree with this but for the sack of arguement lets say you're right about the pack mentality and that an individual might act one way with the pack and do what they think is right when they're alone, they're still not a good person.

You're acting one way when you're with the pack to impress them and try to be cool but when you're alone you want to be nice, all that makes you is a poser and ultimately a bad person. If you know what's going on is wrong then DON'T DO IT.

[urgeok]

I'
ll add my 2 cents tomorrow ... on top of every other god damn thing thats happened in the last little while - I got a wicked head cold this weekend - my throat feels like i've been eating razorblades and its kept me from sleeping - or posting here - for the last couple of days ..

i cant remark on anything that requires a little bit of thinking because my head feels like its full of wet cement ..

[AUSTIN316426808]

Originally posted by urgeok
I'
ll add my 2 cents tomorrow ... on top of every other god damn thing thats happened in the last little while - I got a wicked head cold this weekend - my throat feels like i've been eating razorblades and its kept me from sleeping - or posting here - for the last couple of days ..

i cant remark on anything that requires a little bit of thinking because my head feels like its full of wet cement ..



sorry dude, hope ya feel better

[urgeok]

Originally posted by AUSTIN316426808
sorry dude, hope ya feel better


thanks -

my kid got if first - a slight cough .. i got the adult version i guess.

one thing at a time i can handle but its starting to pile up..
to make matters worse i had committed to a outdoor volleyball tourney saturday - i had to play but i just played setter position,,, and tonight i had a baseball game i couldnt bow out of because a lot of people were away... i told them to put me at catcher...

[Marroe]

mmmkay....this is a hard question. I would hope, like all other people, that I would never be put into a situation where I had a child with a disability...But it does happen, and it could very well happen to me. I honestly couldn't know what exactly I'd say unless I WAS in the situation, I would like my child to live as normal as possible....but when they were old enough, and at a point where they would understand, I would tell them about their disability, and help them live as normal of an adult life as they could with it. I could never stand to, or hear anyone else use the "retarded" when referring to a handicaped child.

[ChEEbA]

~BUMP~

[noctuary]

I don't have children, so of course I can't reply from that viewpoint. If I did, however... I don't think that I could bring myself to lie to my child in that way. I realize that most parents in this situation are bending the truth to avoid hurting their children, but I couldn't do it. In my opinion, it would be better in the long run for the child to hurt a little in the short term than to go through a life of self-deception. At the same time, however, I would attempt to teach them about the people that will prey on their weaknesses, so they could be prepared to deal with the bullies when the time came.

[ChEEbA]

Nice answer there. Yeah...my main thing would be that if the child was already operating at a diminished mental capacity, that they should at least be properly equipped with a realistic outlook. It would suck, no doubt...being told you were different...but better hearing it in a posetive, informative way, than to have the view of some ignorant asshole thrown at you when you weren't prepared for it.