This is close enough to legalized murder for me.

[X¤MurderDoll¤X]

Law Expands Right to Kill in Self-Defense

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (Reuters) - People in Florida will be allowed to kill in self-defense on the street without trying to flee under a new law passed by state politicians on Tuesday that critics say will bring a Wild West mentality and innocent deaths.

The Florida House of Representatives, citing the need to allow people to "stand their ground," voted 94-20 to codify and expand court rulings that already allow people to use deadly force to protect themselves in their homes without first trying to escape.

The new bill goes further by allowing citizens to use deadly force in a public place if they have a reasonable belief they are in danger of death or great bodily harm. It applies to all means of force that may result in death, although the legislative debate focused on guns.

The "Stand Your Ground" bill passed the Senate last week on a 39-0 vote and now goes to Republican Gov. Jeb Bush, who indicated he will sign it.

"This is about meeting force with force," said House sponsor Republican state Rep. Dennis Baxley of Ocala. "If I'm attacked, I should not have to retreat."

Critics have few objections to allowing people to protect themselves from intruders in their homes but said the provision making it easier to use deadly force in public gives gun owners a license to kill.

"For a House that talks about the culture of life it's ironic that we would be devaluing life in this bill," said Democratic state Rep. Dan Gelber of Miami Beach. "That's exactly what we're doing."

Like many states, Florida courts have ruled that people have a right to defend themselves in their homes. Florida courts have expanded that "Castle Doctrine" to include employees in their workplaces and drivers who are attacked in their automobiles.

Outside the home, however, courts have ruled that most victims must at least attempt to escape before using deadly force, a provision gun advocates say puts victims at greater risk. The proposal removes that requirement if a person has a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm.

Critics say the measure could lead to racially motivated killings and promote deadly escalations of arguments.

"All this bill will do is sell more guns and possibly turn Florida into the OK Corral," said Democratic state Rep. Irv Slosberg of Boca Raton.



Your thoughts? (besides that this is the wrong forum.) ;)

[sweet4dnb]

My mom's boyfriend Killed someone..

:eek:

They live in Tampa

[X¤MurderDoll¤X]

story plz

[Gren the cake]

if they think their court systems are flooded now theyre in for a treat

[X¤MurderDoll¤X]

haha true.

[bwind22]

I think it's stupid that their law said you had to try to flee in the first place. Fuck that. If someone's attacking me or my fiance or any other family member, I sure as hell wouldn't be running away.

To me it just sounds like they are catching up to the the rest of the country because I've never heard of anywhere else that says you have to try to run away before using deadly force to protect yourself.

[urgeok]

so the choices are to turn and attempt to outrun a bullet, or take part in a gunfight.

welcome to the wild west. what a country.

[The Mothman]

murderdoll, your avatar is about to give me a seisure.:p

[ShankS]

we've recently, or so I was lead to believe, had a change in the law regarding using reasonable force, to apprehend or remove a person breaking into your home.

A few years ago there was quite a high profile case here, a guy named Tony Martin, a UK farmer who killed a burglar, by shooting him with a shotgun. He served time, but has since been released, and rightly so, since the shitheads who broke in shouldn't have been there robbing him, so deserved shooting.

going back to the topic, this law based on reasonable force, does not include killing, like said above, but withstraining or using force to remove someone, meaning the likelyhood of prosecution for the home owner is reduced, if the criminal is injured.

[meetthecreeper]

43 states in the Union allow some form of concealed carry of handguns and allow self defense of this type for many years, and there is no so called 'Wild West' going on.

You folks up north watch too much television. Everytime the news is on youd think the world is coming to an end with the amount of violence that is showed on TV in the USA. I see that gun confiscation program worked really well out in the territories.

Call 911, yea right average response time in the styx where I live is 45 mins.

Oh excuse mister criminal can you put your wrong doings on hold while we wait for law enforcement to show up and save the day. The police are there to solve the crime after the fact, very rarely do they prevent crime.

If I was a criminal and wanted to do harm to another, I certainly wouldnt be looking for someone who can defend themselves, why do you think predators prey on the weak and the old? Last thing some perp wants to do is break into my house where I am not bound by the rule of law like law enforcement. Someone threatened my family in such a manner, every power I have I would use to take from them what they are trying to take from me.


It is ridiculous for someone to think that they should depend on the government to protect them let alone anything else. They havent done a damn thing for me but take my money and give it to those who dont deserve it.

Sound cold hearted? I give more to my community and do more for the people in it than the government ever can do.

Hand up not a hand out.

Sorry for the rant.

Well not really.

[urgeok]

i can understand the 'defending the castle'
there arent many things as primally offensive as someone violating the home you bought and locked up from freeloading scum ...

but there is a big can of worms that gets opened with it..
i'd bet more people have been killed their own guns or guns that were stolen from home owners than criminals killed in self defense.

i think this kind of a law is a weak bandage as opposed to a solution.

the solution is that the criminal laws have to change. Up here as well as in the USA people are getting away with shit every second because law enforcement is a joke.

The time never fits the crime .. it varies from town to town, there is no consistency.

I'd love to see a system where criminals paid the FULL penalty of the law .. not get a single second off for good behavior (what the fuck is that anyway ? good behavior ??)
No one gets a bullshit break just because they have a better lawyer.

and the guys in jail ? They work to pay for their stay. They work jobs like everyone else so that keeping these useless fucks the lenght of time they deserve doesnt cost the tax payer one red cent.

not only do they work for their stay, they work to pay the saleries of the people who work in the prisons.

They work to build the prisons, they work to pay for renovations on the prisons. You dont want to work ? fine, you're a homeless prisoner .. no shelter, no food.


fuck i wish i ran the country.

[The Mothman]

legalized mueder? two words for ya.

O.J.

[meetthecreeper]

Originally posted by urgeok

but there is a big can of worms that gets opened with it..
i'd bet more people have been killed their own guns or guns that were stolen from home owners than criminals killed in self defense.


I agree with everything you said but the above, my kids 6 and 4 have been taught about guns and what to do if they encounter one,

1. Dont touch

2. get away

3. tell an adult

I even went as far as leaving guns laying around the house for them to find, unloaded of course, to make sure they understand the concept. They do quite well. The concept is education which most are ignorant of, instead they just run around in fear of an inanimate object that can do no harm just sitting there.

Like any tool its the user that determines its use.

I think the prison system is loaded with way too many people that dont need to be there, I dont have the time for examples but they sure aint violent criminals.

[I,ZOMBIE]

Originally posted by The Mothman
legalized mueder? two words for ya.

O.J.

that would be nice.

aparently in NY self defense is illegal when you have to defend yourself angainst a relative of a person in govermental power. trust me, i have a tiny criminal record and because of who i am and who this guy is, i got charged when i shouldn't have.

maybe i shouldn't have defended myself so that guy could have killed me and gotten a slap on the wrist. but because i wanted to live i am the bad guy.

fuck the world.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by meetthecreeper

I think the prison system is loaded with way too many people that dont need to be there, I dont have the time for examples but they sure aint violent criminals.


pot possession ..among one .. prostitution..
(2 things that should be legalized and govt. regulated)

but then we have another question ...
there are a lot of laws you can break without being a violent offender. Some of those broken laws have destroyed lives (fraud for one example), and cost us a ton of money (computer fraud)
Or the new favorite .. wittingly having sex with people unaware you're HIV positive.

What do we do with these guys ? There has to be a deterrent strong enough to keep people from offending .. and there has to be retribution for those that do.
(the same as being a parent .. you always have to carry through with a promised punishment or your word holds no weight)

depending on the seriousness (size/scope) of the crime there will no doubt be jail time ..but for the 'small fry' I'm all for seeing them doing community work , etc.

(shit - even then it has to be supervised so there goes the taxpayers money again)

there arent any easy answers ..

except for making the violent offenders work for every cent they cost the system. .. that one seems like a no brainer.

[I,ZOMBIE]

Originally posted by urgeok
except for making the violent offenders work for every cent they cost the system. .. that one seems like a no brainer. [/B]

even if the violent crime was a case of fight back or die?

[urgeok]

Originally posted by I,ZOMBIE
even if the violent crime was a case of fight back or die?

not at all ...
i believe in self defense as a last resort.
anyone hurts my wife or kid and i'll be the first one to become a violent offender ..


self defense is another place where the law constantly fails ..
a criminal has no rights in my eyes (while commiting a crime)


its always better to get your ass out of the situation, but if you cant .. you should be able to protect yourself by any means neccessary

[Haunted]

You know, I think this gives people a lot of leeway to commit violent crimes against people and then hide under this new mandate. So, I think you're on to something MD.

I mean think about it. There are a lot of crimes committed by spouses that are supposedly "self defence" when in all actuality it's life insurance policies for extraordinary amounts of money.

Also, I live on a golf course, under this Florida law, I could potentially shoot a golfer coming in the yard to fetch his ball. That's an extreme example, but I'm saying that gives people with guns too much power.

I will say, though, that if someone tries to attack me on the street, she/he is going to have one hell of a fight on their hands. I think that everyone here would understand that. Hopefully, all of you would defend yourselves as violently as necessary. (Girls, we are not helpless, as much as various assailents may think we are.)

[I,ZOMBIE]

Originally posted by urgeok
not at all ...
i believe in self defense as a last resort.
anyone hurts my wife or kid and i'll be the first one to become a violent offender ..


self defense is another place where the law constantly fails ..
a criminal has no rights in my eyes (while commiting a crime)


its always better to get your ass out of the situation, but if you cant .. you should be able to protect yourself by any means neccessary

KNOW LIBERTY, NO JUSTICE

[urgeok]

Originally posted by Haunted
You know, I think this gives people a lot of leeway to commit violent crimes against people and then hide under this new mandate. So, I think you're on to something MD.

I mean think about it. There are a lot of crimes committed by spouses that are supposedly "self defence" when in all actuality it's life insurance policies for extraordinary amounts of money.

Also, I live on a golf course, under this Florida law, I could potentially shoot a golfer coming in the yard to fetch his ball. That's an extreme example, but I'm saying that gives people with guns too much power.




that was included in the can of worms i was referring too ...
leeway is the key word.
Anyone remember the guy on the subway who opened fire on the black kids on the subway a few years back because he felt intimidated ?



so you live on a golf course .. i thought i recognized you !!

you ever see Bill around anymore ? :)

[meetthecreeper]

Originally posted by Haunted
You know, I think this gives people a lot of leeway to commit violent crimes against people and then hide under this new mandate. So, I think you're on to something MD.

I mean think about it. There are a lot of crimes committed by spouses that are supposedly "self defence" when in all actuality it's life insurance policies for extraordinary amounts of money.

Also, I live on a golf course, under this Florida law, I could potentially shoot a golfer coming in the yard to fetch his ball. That's an extreme example, but I'm saying that gives people with guns too much power.

I will say, though, that if someone tries to attack me on the street, she/he is going to have one hell of a fight on their hands. I think that everyone here would understand that. Hopefully, all of you would defend yourselves as violently as necessary. (Girls, we are not helpless, as much as various assailents may think we are.)


I want to go out on a limb here and say that I think ALL women should be mandated?, to undergo self defense classes, whatever the type they feel comfortable with.

My lady carries a 38 snub with her, I asked her 2, but I got her trained in how to use it. I think she deserves the right to defend herself.

Any man that attacks a woman in any manner, domestic or otherwise should be made to report to me for punishment.

SEVERE PUNISHMENT

I wont say what happened but about 8 or 9 years ago my sisters boyfriend put her in the hospital, did she ask for it? Probably. Did she deserve it, FOOK NO!!

Lets just say myself and 3 friends made him beg to be put in jail.

[meetthecreeper]

Originally posted by Haunted
You know, I think this gives people a lot of leeway to commit violent crimes against people and then hide under this new mandate. So, I think you're on to something MD.

I mean think about it. There are a lot of crimes committed by spouses that are supposedly "self defence" when in all actuality it's life insurance policies for extraordinary amounts of money.

Also, I live on a golf course, under this Florida law, I could potentially shoot a golfer coming in the yard to fetch his ball. That's an extreme example, but I'm saying that gives people with guns too much power.

I will say, though, that if someone tries to attack me on the street, she/he is going to have one hell of a fight on their hands. I think that everyone here would understand that. Hopefully, all of you would defend yourselves as violently as necessary. (Girls, we are not helpless, as much as various assailents may think we are.)

I can agree with that, although I will say that shootin a golfer may not be such a bad idea.

1. arrogant game -hitting a small ball across all that pristine landscape.

2. Sweep and clearing the countryside to install sandtraps and manicured lawns.

3. Those ugly plaid pants.

J/K of course

[urgeok]

unfortunately due to the sexist roll models we fit our children into from birth .. girls are encouraged to be caregivers and boys are rough and tumble.

They commonly fight and wrestle which is actually instictual (the deep rooted biological need to develop survival strengths)

Besides that there are the physical make-up diferences.
Again .. in primitive times this was for a reason .. hunting, surviving, etc.

So that leaves us with women - who for the most part are physically smaller and far less agressive ...

I know there are always exceptions, i'm talking about the norm.

and remember .. when a girl decides to fight - a piece of shit preditor with fight harder and dirtier .. and he doesnt care how messed up your face and body is when he decides to take advantage .. let alone just a violent beating.


training in self defense isnt always the answer either ... some of these guys have trained their whole lives.

the best possible way to avoid this is to get out of a bad relationship at the 1st sign of anything like that (dont wait for things to get better 'he's really sweet when he's not drunk')

and be smart where you go at night ... use the buddy system .. and stay out of bad areas ... until the day that its safe for women to go whereever, whenever ... given its 2005 now - i cant ever see a day when women and children are safe though ... people - for the most part - are fucking evil.

[meetthecreeper]

Originally posted by urgeok
unfortunately due to the sexist roll models we fit our children into from birth .. girls are encouraged to be caregivers and boys are rough and tumble.

They commonly fight and wrestle which is actually instictual (the deep rooted biological need to develop survival strengths)

Besides that there are the physical make-up diferences.
Again .. in primitive times this was for a reason .. hunting, surviving, etc.

So that leaves us with women - who for the most part are physically smaller and far less agressive ...

I know there are always exceptions, i'm talking about the norm.

and remember .. when a girl decides to fight - a piece of shit preditor with fight harder and dirtier .. and he doesnt care how messed up your face and body is when he decides to take advantage .. let alone just a violent beating.


training in self defense isnt always the answer either ... some of these guys have trained their whole lives.

the best possible way to avoid this is to get out of a bad relationship at the 1st sign of anything like that (dont wait for things to get better 'he's really sweet when he's not drunk')

and be smart where you go at night ... use the buddy system .. and stay out of bad areas ... until the day that its safe for women to go whereever, whenever ... given its 2005 now - i cant ever see a day when women and children are safe though ... people - for the most part - are fucking evil.

My sister is one of those that I think enjoys getting slapped around and loves the drama.

Funny you should say that about women being conditioned to be the weaker sex so to speak. In the animal kingdom the females are the ones that do most of the ass kicking, and I do believe that in primitive cultures women were the stronger sex.

I think alot of it has to do with 'oppression by the church' and the powers that be........but lets not get into that.

The best defense is a strong offense.

[X¤MurderDoll¤X]

Originally posted by Haunted
You know, I think this gives people a lot of leeway to commit violent crimes against people and then hide under this new mandate. So, I think you're on to something MD.


Exactly. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to kill someone... in self defense.

[sweet4dnb]

Originally posted by X?MurderDoll?X
story plz

I don't know it very well. He was a Taxi cab driver at the time, and carries a gun of course... deffinatly your Flordia red neck man. I guess the guy attacked him... so he killed him. ( He was also African American, which gives me suspicions because the "n" word flies out his mouth like tomorrow.)
After that he has been arrested several times for possession of a gun, but I'm not sure of the details surrounding the various situations.
He still has guns- a lot of them.

[X¤MurderDoll¤X]

Originally posted by sweet4dnb
I don't know it very well. He was a Taxi cab driver at the time, and carries a gun of course... deffinatly your Flordia red neck man. I guess the guy attacked him... so he killed him. ( He was also African American, which gives me suspicions because the "n" word flies out his mouth like tomorrow.)
After that he has been arrested several times for possession of a gun, but I'm not sure of the details surrounding the various situations.
He still has guns- a lot of them.

*sniff* make america proud, boy.

[Spy Crouch]

First of all, gender should not matter at all when it comes to physically harming someone. Obviously, it does in our society, but it shouldn't. Women are not born to weak, it is the roles we as a society put a woman in, that will make her weak. Regardless, an elderly man is weak, but if he's hitting me would you still consider it wrong to fight back?

That question goes mostly to those who are defending this, by saying they should always have a right to fight back.

As far as my opinions on the actual topic go, it's a ridiculous notion. Period. Most of you should know damn well that the number of instances of this being used to defend a cold-blooded murderer will far outweigh the number of those who were actually defending themselves.

I do understand the kill or be killed scenario, but the truth is, it doesn't occur as often as you're making out. Most of the time, if getting away is not an option, defending yourself without trying to kill someone will be plenty.

I also find it appauling, that we live in a world where instead of trying to find ways to reduce the occurences this kind of violence, we go off and applaud a bill allowing murder in self-defense.

[X¤MurderDoll¤X]

Originally posted by Haunted

I will say, though, that if someone tries to attack me on the street, she/he is going to have one hell of a fight on their hands. I think that everyone here would understand that. Hopefully, all of you would defend yourselves as violently as necessary. (Girls, we are not helpless, as much as various assailents may think we are.)

I never went in for that "Don't fight back" garbage either.

[Gren the cake]

Originally posted by bwind22
I think it's stupid that their law said you had to try to flee in the first place.
there was at time where in order for the crime to be classified as rape, the victim had to resist to the UTMOST (kick, scream, fight back)

whereas nowadays, just the mere utterance of 'no' is sufficient

[Gren the cake]

Originally posted by meetthecreeper
The police are there to solve the crime after the fact, very rarely do they prevent crime.
Yuo can blame that on the Bill of Rights

[Gren the cake]

Originally posted by urgeok
the solution is that the criminal laws have to change. Up here as well as in the USA people are getting away with shit every second because law enforcement is a joke.

The time never fits the crime .. it varies from town to town, there is no consistency.

I'd love to see a system where criminals paid the FULL penalty of the law .. not get a single second off for good behavior (what the fuck is that anyway ? good behavior ??)
No one gets a bullshit break just because they have a better lawyer.
becuz federal law allows each state, city, jurisdiction, to make thier own judgements, to suit the needs of their community

and why do criminals get off for good behavior? WHY do most not even serve HALF of their jail time? easy - we dont have the resources to house them all (money)

[urgeok]

Originally posted by Gren the cake
becuz federal law allows each state, city, jurisdiction, to make thier own judgements, to suit the needs of their community

and why do criminals get off for good behavior? WHY do most not even serve HALF of their jail time? easy - we dont have the resources to house them all (money)

read back .. i solved the money problem :)

[Gren the cake]

Originally posted by Haunted
You know, I think this gives people a lot of leeway to commit violent crimes against people and then hide under this new mandate. So, I think you're on to something MD.

Also, I live on a golf course, under this Florida law, I could potentially shoot a golfer coming in the yard to fetch his ball. That's an extreme example, but I'm saying that gives people with guns too much power.
exactly, which is why we give police the authority

why do we have doctors? plumbers? architects? becuz we ourselves CANNOT become expert in all subjects, so we let other people handle it for us. we trust them.

just as theres gonna be shitty cops, there are gonna be shitty doctors, teachers, MECHANICS, etc etc...

why is it that people always have problems with cops? you realize the 2nd most dangerous job in the US is the job of a corrections officer (jail). and what is the first? police officer.

that is why we let the cops do it - becuz they are fully aware of the bill of rights and all that jazz. becuz they are physically trained on how to remove weapons, trained to run TO the fire, instead of away from it.

to kill in self defense is one thing, but there are motherfuckers who will kill someone else for (as in the example earlier) burglary. sorry, but stealing != (Does not equal) murder. as with cops, and with anyone else.. its called REASONABLE force

which is why i said again - if they think the court systems are plugged up now, just wait! people are gona totaly take that law the wrong way, and ignorance of the law is no defense.

[Gren the cake]

Originally posted by urgeok
read back .. i solved the money problem :)
im going in order, and now i ilost my place. LOL

all i saw was that u want to legalize and gov't regulate prostitution..... :eek:

not that that woudnt cause its own myriad of problems....

i fuckin hate complainers. why? becuz with every solution will be a whole new set of problems. ya end up being angry ur whole fuckin life, when fact of the matter is we are in the US (cept u, schmuck!), and happen to be some ungrateful motherfuckers.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by Gren the cake
im going in order, and now i ilost my place. LOL

all i saw was that u want to legalize and gov't regulate prostitution..... :eek:

not that that woudnt cause its own myriad of problems....

i fuckin hate complainers. why? becuz with every solution will be a whole new set of problems. ya end up being angry ur whole fuckin life, when fact of the matter is we are in the US (cept u, schmuck!), and happen to be some ungrateful motherfuckers.

no back further than that ... re. making inmates work for every penny that they cost to be there ...

[Gren the cake]

Originally posted by urgeok
no back further than that ... re. making inmates work for every penny that they cost to be there ...
OHHHH that

ehh aint that easy. how to regulate that? and what sort of work? we used to make them do work stamping licenses and such but fact of the matter is a lot of the times u dont want these fucks anywhere near any tools, hammers, and such

i guess u can get em to work stuffing pillows... but im SURE they could find something fucked up to do with that (asphyxiate.. perhaps melt the fibers into a blade of some sort.... creative bitches)

UNLESS your talking about, lets say AFTER they get out of jail, to repay... it costs $7000 per cell initially and $1000/yr upkeep. but again, how to regulate? example - sex offenders have to register every year for the rest of their life (with good reason, I believe. although it IS somewhat sad to see a feeble old man who can barely sign his own name walkin in to fill out that shit). ANYWAY, if you DONT register, that is an offense. but how many people get away with it? that in itself takes money to mail notices, find them, etc etc.....

again, money. which is TOTALLY why i think it was RIDIULOUS that they locked up martha stewart. we spent tax dollars to lock her up. i dunno about u, but im sure we coulda fined her hefty and put that money to good use. on top of that, what is one of the reasons we lock people up? to PHYSICALLY keep them from repeating their actions. so why lock her up, when shes not a danger to anyone?

[urgeok]

Originally posted by Gren the cake
OHHHH that

ehh aint that easy. how to regulate that? and what sort of work? we used to make them do work stamping licenses and such but fact of the matter is a lot of the times u dont want these fucks anywhere near any tools, hammers, and such


stuff like that ...
i think that there are a lot of things that they can be doing ..
with the same supervision they get now ..

and if a serial rapist kills a child molester with a hammer ?? too bad, so sad.

[Gren the cake]

Originally posted by urgeok
stuff like that ...
i think that there are a lot of things that they can be doing ..
with the same supervision they get now ..

and if a serial rapist kills a child molester with a hammer ?? too bad, so sad.
yeh but they house the rapists in wit.... martha stewart!!! that and whos to say they would only kill each other? how about the corretions officer, or the maintenace guy, who just wants to get off shift and go back home to their family? its just not worth it

^_^ and no, there arent a lot of things they'll do. u cant give a lot of these fucks an inch

example. give them a paper cup. what theyl'l do is they'll piss and shit in it and leave it in their cell, colecting for a week. they dont even give a fuck about the smell. then when the corrections officer comes by, they hurl it at them

or to make it worse, they take the plastic off of various objects (usu. the wrapper of cigarettes), use the heater to melt it. collecting enough, they make a blade, then they dip the blade in the piss/shit mix and THEN stab the officers with them

so what then, pray tell?

[urgeok]

Originally posted by Gren the cake
yeh but they house the rapists in wit.... martha stewart!!! that and whos to say they would only kill each other? how about the corretions officer, or the maintenace guy, who just wants to get off shift and go back home to their family? its just not worth it

^_^ and no, there arent a lot of things they'll do. u cant give a lot of these fucks an inch

example. give them a paper cup. what theyl'l do is they'll piss and shit in it and leave it in their cell, colecting for a week. they dont even give a fuck about the smell. then when the corrections officer comes by, they hurl it at them

or to make it worse, they take the plastic off of various objects (usu. the wrapper of cigarettes), use the heater to melt it. collecting enough, they make a blade, then they dip the blade in the piss/shit mix and THEN stab the officers with them

so what then, pray tell?


then they sit outside and starve in the courtyard
i dont have a lot of sympathy for people who fuck up - even in prison ...

[Gren the cake]

Originally posted by urgeok
then they sit outside and starve in the courtyard
i dont have a lot of sympathy for people who fuck up - even in prison ...
people make mistakes... just some more drastic than others

some have control some dont. some people grow up pretty well and some come from ultimate shitty upbringings

some can place themselves in other persons shoes and be empathetic, while others want to throw down onto others exactly what was thrown onto them

some people have all their brain cells, some are born with real defects

i have sympathy.. cuz u need to. we all fuck up.

[Gren the cake]

not to mention, if we DID let them starve, we'd hafto put up a barricade of some sort so not only would we hafto see them, but we couldnt hafto hear them

also, when they died we'd hafto pay someone to get in there and get rid of the body, i imagine that would be pretty dangerous. OR we COULD just let the body in there and rot

.. yeh, we could be inhumane! u know, like how saddam hussein would kill the soccer players for losing?! YEEEEAAAAAA BBBBOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYY

^_^... just givin ya a hard time. i like to give opposing view points, not to be an ass.. just u know, cuz its good to look at things from all angles.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by Gren the cake
not to mention, if we DID let them starve, we'd hafto put up a barricade of some sort so not only would we hafto see them, but we couldnt hafto hear them

also, when they died we'd hafto pay someone to get in there and get rid of the body, i imagine that would be pretty dangerous. OR we COULD just let the body in there and rot

.. yeh, we could be inhumane! u know, like how saddam hussein would kill the soccer players for losing?! YEEEEAAAAAA BBBBOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYY

^_^... just givin ya a hard time. i like to give opposing view points, not to be an ass.. just u know, cuz its good to look at things from all angles.

trust me ,, i look at both sides of it too .. i could argue either side of the discussion and agree with amost every counterpoint

[Gren the cake]

Originally posted by urgeok
trust me ,, i look at both sides of it too .. i could argue either side of the discussion and agree with amost every counterpoint
werd.

but its nice to put it out there, unliek that oreilly fellow, who will cut people off when he starts 'losing'

even tohugh its not even necessarily losing.. its called viewing from aLL angles.. you know, FAIR AND BALANCED!?! 'you decide' they say.. HA!

dunno if ur familiar with that buffoon.... :/ :mad:

[urgeok]

Originally posted by Gren the cake
werd.

but its nice to put it out there, unliek that oreilly fellow, who will cut people off when he starts 'losing'

even tohugh its not even necessarily losing.. its called viewing from aLL angles.. you know, FAIR AND BALANCED!?! 'you decide' they say.. HA!

dunno if ur familiar with that buffoon.... :/ :mad:

no, but there is more than one like that around ..