Seven Doors of Death

[Tat2]

I just found Lucio Fulci's Seven Doors of Death (AKA as "E Tu Vivrai Nel Terrore - L'Aldila') on DVD for $6.99. this is the first time that I've seen it for sale and the first time that I've heard of it. I bought it because it was directed by Fulci so I couldn't loose. Anyone ever see it? :confused:

[TheOmen]

I thought that was just another title for The Beyond?

[newb]

Originally posted by TheOmen
I thought that was just another title for The Beyond?

It is.
Its the US censored version.

[Angra]

Seen it. Liked it! :D

[urgeok]

Originally posted by newb
It is.
Its the US censored version.

uncensored ?

i have the anchor bay tin .. doesnt look like it could possibly be censored.

christ i wish i could have paid $6.99 for mine !

[Angra]

I´ve got "the byond". There is a man (zombie) with a bad makeup effect on the cover.

[The STE]

Copied it. It sucks

[Angra]

I wanna see it again now.

I´ll be back! :cool: :)

[urgeok]

Originally posted by The STE
Copied it. It sucks

i took a lot of flack for alluding to that same thing ..

I found that it was all over the place - like a patchwork kilt ..

I love italian zombie horror but this just rubbed me the wrong way.

People will say it isnt supposed to make sense (it's surreal baby!) and it's style over substance .. etc ... and although there are a lot of films that are more style than smart - this one didnt do it for me ...

[IDrinkYourBlood]

ordered the thing on DVD, paid 25.99 for it. The cheapest movie on dvd i have ever bought was Sleepaway camp and The House by the Cemetary. Each was 4.99

[urgeok]

Originally posted by IDrinkYourBlood
ordered the thing on DVD, paid 25.99 for it. The cheapest movie on dvd i have ever bought was Sleepaway camp and The House by the Cemetary. Each was 4.99

yeah there is a cheap version of House by the Cemetary out .. the cover looks like a photocopy .. that the one ?

I bought it but soon upgraded when i found the anchor bay version (it has some extras) havent done a picture comparrison though ..


the anchor bay ver. is widescreen as well..

[Angra]

Originally posted by urgeok
i took a lot of flack for alluding to that same thing ..

I found that it was all over the place - like a patchwork kilt ..

I love italian zombie horror but this just rubbed me the wrong way.

People will say it isnt supposed to make sense (it's surreal baby!) and it's style over substance .. etc ... and although there are a lot of films that are more style than smart - this one didnt do it for me ...

Fair enough. :)

I think i like this one, because it´s not a zombie movie as much as a movie about hell rising from below a house. thats a nice theme, i think.

There is absolutely no doubt that all Fulci´s movies are B-movies. But sometimes that just dosn´t matter, like the case is with "The beyond". :D

[TheOmen]

I bought it for 9.99 at Best Buy. It even has a commentary .

I like it, it's not my favorite from Italy, though. Argento kicks Fulci's ass any day.

[Angra]

Originally posted by TheOmen
I bought it for 9.99 at Best Buy. It even has a commentary .

I like it, it's not my favorite from Italy, though. Argento kicks Fulci's ass any day.



Pleeeeeease.....

[The STE]

Originally posted by urgeok
i took a lot of flack for alluding to that same thing ..

I found that it was all over the place - like a patchwork kilt ..

I love italian zombie horror but this just rubbed me the wrong way.

People will say it isnt supposed to make sense (it's surreal baby!) and it's style over substance .. etc ... and although there are a lot of films that are more style than smart - this one didnt do it for me ...

It's not all bad. Like most supernatural-style Euro horror movies from that era, it had good cinematography. But since most did have that, it doesn't count for much. The acting was bad, the dubbing was bad, the writing was bad, the makeup was bad, the plot made no sense, the deaths were contrived and went on forever (and too often predictable. I called that the dog would kill the blind chick the second it walked back into frame in that scene), the male lead was completely useless except for looking like the love child of Sean Bean and Henry Fonda, and the ending was stupid. This had neither style nor substance. And that was just the censored version. I can't see any possible way that seeing more of that movie would make me like it any more.

It's even more annoying because Fulci is a good director. He's better than this shit. There are some fantastic shots in Zombi 2.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by TheOmen

I like it, it's not my favorite from Italy, though. Argento kicks Fulci's ass any day.


i'd have to agree with that.

his pictures flow a hell of a lot better.

[IDrinkYourBlood]

Originally posted by urgeok
yeah there is a cheap version of House by the Cemetary out .. the cover looks like a photocopy .. that the one ?

I bought it but soon upgraded when i found the anchor bay version (it has some extras) havent done a picture comparrison though ..


the anchor bay ver. is widescreen as well.. The version of House by the Cemetary that i have is distributed by a company called "Legacy". No special features or anything, just scene index and interactive menu.

[Angra]

Why does the zombies in Fulci´s movies always have to walk slower than slowmotion? Does anybody (except for Fulci, i guess) find that scary?:confused:

[newb]

Originally posted by urgeok
uncensored ?

i have the anchor bay tin .. doesnt look like it could possibly be censored.

christ i wish i could have paid $6.99 for mine !

From IMDB

Also Known As:
Aldilà, L'
And You Will Live in Terror: The Afterlife
Seven Doors of Death (USA) (censored version)
The Beyond

[The STE]

Originally posted by Angra
Why does the zombies in Fulci´s movies always have to walk slower than slowmotion? Does anybody (except for Fulci, i guess) find that scary?:confused:

I think it's that, especially in Fulci and other Italian zombie movies, no matter how slow they are, and no matter how many you kill, there are always hundreds more. So, as slow as they are, there's no way of escaping. Knowing something that slow is going to eat you alive is a bit unnerving, yeah. And if you're in a Fulci movie, something that slow IS going to eat you alive.

[Angra]

Originally posted by The STE
I think it's that, especially in Fulci and other Italian zombie movies, no matter how slow they are, and no matter how many you kill, there are always hundreds more. So, as slow as they are, there's no way of escaping. Knowing something that slow is going to eat you alive is a bit unnerving, yeah. And if you're in a Fulci movie, something that slow IS going to eat you alive.

Sounds about right..

[urgeok]

Originally posted by The STE
I think it's that, especially in Fulci and other Italian zombie movies, no matter how slow they are, and no matter how many you kill, there are always hundreds more. So, as slow as they are, there's no way of escaping. Knowing something that slow is going to eat you alive is a bit unnerving, yeah. And if you're in a Fulci movie, something that slow IS going to eat you alive.


that ... or a combination of real and fake tarantulas.

[The STE]

Originally posted by urgeok
that ... or a combination of real and fake tarantulas.

No, they'll just eat the glue and latex

[KRUGERKID13]

Yeah i own it but i bought the anchorbay release (The Beyond) alot better pic. quality and and not censored

[TheOmen]

Yeah i own it but i bought the anchorbay release (The Beyond) alot better pic. quality and and not censored

I think I have that version as well. The picture is rather nice.

[Tat2]

I just watched it. The one I bought is a widescreen edition and a Diamond release. It wasn't bad, but I have seen better. You could easily see the fake tarantulas against the real ones, and the close ups of faces being disfigured was quite obviously fake, but there were some good scenes.

I would have perferred the uncensored version, but for 7 bucks, who can bitch? Its a good addition to a gore hounds movie collection.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by Tat2
I just watched it. The one I bought is a widescreen edition and a Diamond release. It wasn't bad, but I have seen better. You could easily see the fake tarantulas against the real ones, and the close ups of faces being disfigured was quite obviously fake, but there were some good scenes.

I would have perferred the uncensored version, but for 7 bucks, who can bitch? Its a good addition to a gore hounds movie collection.

did it have the 2 'eyeball scenes' ?
one being a zombie thumb gouging .. and the other being a nail in the back of the head ?

[Tat2]

Originally posted by urgeok
did it have the 2 'eyeball scenes' ?
one being a zombie thumb gouging .. and the other being a nail in the back of the head ?


Yeah. I liked both of those scenes! I thought the first death scene with the Worlock and the scourging with the chain and subsequent use of the quick-lime was rather good also.

[urgeok]

what was cut out then ???

[The STE]

At the risk of sounding redundant, I again have to draw a comparison between this and Zombi 2. The Beyond has 2 eyeball scenes, which is at least 1 too many and neither one of them are done right. It's just "eyeball gets gouged one way or another, check out the gorey and shitty effects". The eye isn't just gouged and it's over, sure. It's gouged for a little bit.
However, Zombi 2 has 1 eyeball scene. This one is done right. The eyeball is going through the shard of wood. You know that the second the shard of wood is anywhere near the eye. But Fulci makes you sit and wait for it. And THEN they gouge the eye nice and slow like.

Maybe if I'd seen more than 2 Fulci movies I could compare The Beyond to something besides Zombi 2.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by The STE
At the risk of sounding redundant, I again have to draw a comparison between this and Zombi 2. The Beyond has 2 eyeball scenes, which is at least 1 too many and neither one of them are done right. It's just "eyeball gets gouged one way or another, check out the gorey and shitty effects". The eye isn't just gouged and it's over, sure. It's gouged for a little bit.
However, Zombi 2 has 1 eyeball scene. This one is done right. The eyeball is going through the shard of wood. You know that the second the shard of wood is anywhere near the eye. But Fulci makes you sit and wait for it. And THEN they gouge the eye nice and slow like.

Maybe if I'd seen more than 2 Fulci movies I could compare The Beyond to something besides Zombi 2.

again, i concur completely

some folks thing The Beyond is his best though ...

[The STE]

and some folks have sex with children, doesn't mean it makes a good movie

[urgeok]

what if the children are good looking 18 year old girls ?

[The STE]

18 = not children

[urgeok]

i'm old... 30 seems like children to me :)

[Tat2]

Originally posted by urgeok
what was cut out then ???



I have no idea.

[Angra]

Originally posted by The STE
At the risk of sounding redundant, I again have to draw a comparison between this and Zombi 2. The Beyond has 2 eyeball scenes, which is at least 1 too many and neither one of them are done right. It's just "eyeball gets gouged one way or another, check out the gorey and shitty effects". The eye isn't just gouged and it's over, sure. It's gouged for a little bit.
However, Zombi 2 has 1 eyeball scene. This one is done right. The eyeball is going through the shard of wood. You know that the second the shard of wood is anywhere near the eye. But Fulci makes you sit and wait for it. And THEN they gouge the eye nice and slow like.

Maybe if I'd seen more than 2 Fulci movies I could compare The Beyond to something besides Zombi 2.

If you´ve seen 2 Fulci movies and didn´t like them, you don´t need to see anymore (Maybe "City of the dead"). They are all the same...

I´m not a big Fulci fan, but i like him better than Argento. They are both B-movie directors, in my eyes, but their prefered genres are very different indeed. Fulci is into zombies and Argento is into Slashers (always a psyco running around killing girls).
I just like zombie movies better than slashers... :)

[TheOmen]

I´m not a big Fulci fan, but i like him better than Argento. They are both B-movie directors, in my eyes, but their prefered genres are very different indeed. Fulci is into zombies and Argento is into Slashers (always a psyco running around killing girls).

Fair enough. But I give Argento a lot more credit as a director. His movies are good. And all look and sound spectacular. I just think of Fulci as a shock director, whereas Argento brings you into some weird twisted , cool looking, fairy tale.

[42ndStreetFreak]

Fulci hardly directed any Zombie films.

And only *1* is a pure zombie film ("Zombi 2")

"City" has teleporting zombies, as does "The Beyond" and whether Fraudstein in "House" is a Zombie is still open to debate.

In his short period of prime creativity (with his regualr top notch crew with him) he was far from a hack and even in the cut n paste, copycat World of Italian horror of that period, his films are normally of far higher techniccal and artistic quality than most other films of that ilk (compare "Burial Ground" say to Fulci's zombie films..It's fun for sure, but it's nowhere near the techinal and visual standard of Fulci's films).

And the Giallo influence 9or total emmersion) of Argento's films mean they have actually very little in common with the traditional, very American, 'Slasher' sub-genre.
Even the best 'Slashers' are stripped down in content and style compared to Argento's flamoyant take on the psycho killer..

[urgeok]

Originally posted by TheOmen
Fair enough. But I give Argento a lot more credit as a director. His movies are good. And all look and sound spectacular. I just think of Fulci as a shock director, whereas Argento brings you into some weird twisted , cool looking, fairy tale.

i havent yet been able to lay my hands on the Argento boigraphy which i would love to read .. I'm betting he'll cite Hitchcock as a major influence.

[The STE]

Originally posted by Angra
If you´ve seen 2 Fulci movies and didn´t like them, you don´t need to see anymore (Maybe "City of the dead"). They are all the same...

I´m not a big Fulci fan, but i like him better than Argento. They are both B-movie directors, in my eyes, but their prefered genres are very different indeed. Fulci is into zombies and Argento is into Slashers (always a psyco running around killing girls).
I just like zombie movies better than slashers... :)

I think Zombi 2 is (in regular-type movie circles at least) pretty underrated. Sure, the dubbing is bad, and that one guy sounds a lot like Roddy McDowell, but the look of the movie (not the make-up stuff, that was average) was great, and the eyeball scene was fantastically done.

But The Beyond is shit. Pure shit.

[Sedated_replica]

Originally posted by The STE
But The Beyond is shit. Pure shit.

you're being alittle harsh and overracting. To say Seven Doors of death is pure shit, it sounds ignorant. when they're is a million times worse horror movies.

[42ndStreetFreak]

Can you have 'impure shit'?

I suppose you could if you added something to it like, er...flowers, or shoe laces or something.

But then would this 'impure shit' be actually better?
As by definition 'pure shit', is a very horrible thing.

Hmmmmm.......

[Angra]

Originally posted by 42ndStreetFreak
Can you have 'impure shit'?

I suppose you could if you added something to it like, er...flowers, or shoe laces or something.

But then would this 'impure shit' be actually better?
As by definition 'pure shit', is a very horrible thing.

Hmmmmm.......


Are you on crack??? :confused: LOL

[urgeok]

Originally posted by Sedated_replica
you're being alittle harsh and overracting. To say Seven Doors of death is pure shit, it sounds ignorant. when they're is a million times worse horror movies.

there is worse ..

but there was so much build up for this movie .. things i'd read - peoples opinions ...
i was taken aback when i finally saw it ..

maybe it has historical significance ? I dunno, i just thought like STE that it was a poor film.

I know a guy who is a profesional film critique and horror mag contributer..as well as a musician who has scored a horror flick and does only horror themed music ... this guy liked the movie so much he has an Eibon tattoo on the back of his neck.

I think there must be a way to look at this for it to be good, but i cant find it ..it seemed amateurish and sloppy.
Notably the first time that i really couldnt find anything to enjoy despite how much i love italian horror.

I'll watch it again - who knows maybe I'll find something the 2nd time around now that my expectations are much lower

[The STE]

Originally posted by Sedated_replica
you're being alittle harsh and overracting. To say Seven Doors of death is pure shit, it sounds ignorant. when they're is a million times worse horror movies.

And how exactly does it sound ignorant? I happen to think the movie is shit. There are movies that are worse, yes, but that doesn't make this movie any better.

[Tat2]

Originally posted by urgeok
there is worse ..

I think there must be a way to look at this for it to be good, but i cant find it ..it seemed amateurish and sloppy.
Notably the first time that i really couldnt find anything to enjoy despite how much i love italian horror.

I'll watch it again - who knows maybe I'll find something the 2nd time around now that my expectations are much lower

If you look at the film for what it is; a very low budget "B" movie. Fulci and Argento have a knack for creating SFX that are more inline with the bigger budget films of the same era. They don't spent the money on highly paid actors, locations etc, but do produce effective movies.

If you try to compare movies such as Seven Doors of Death with big budget movies like The Exorcist you will almost always be unhappy. It took me awhile to accept the Italian movies, thinking they were all bad, because I would always compare them to the bigger budget, U.S. made movies.

I finally figured out that I was missing a big part of good horror by excluding what I automatically thought was terrrible movies if they were Italian.

[The STE]

Originally posted by Tat2
If you look at the film for what it is; a very low budget "B" movie. Fulci and Argento have a knack for creating SFX that are more inline with the bigger budget films of the same era. They don't spent the money on highly paid actors, locations etc, but do produce effective movies.

If you try to compare movies such as Seven Doors of Death with big budget movies like The Exorcist you will almost always be unhappy. It took me awhile to accept the Italian movies, thinking they were all bad, because I would always compare them to the bigger budget, U.S. made movies.

I finally figured out that I was missing a big part of good horror by excluding what I automatically thought was terrrible movies if they were Italian.

This is why I compared it to Zombi 2 so much. They're in the same sub-genre, league, whatever you want to call it, so there's no bullshit excuse for Seven Doors of Death/The Beyond to be so bad when Zombi 2 is so good.

Although, the "you can't compare it to big-budget movies" line doesn't hold up so well anymore anyways.

[TheOmen]

Although, the "you can't compare it to big-budget movies" line doesn't hold up so well anymore anyways.

Especially if you consider comparing it with The Texas Chainsaw Massacre , Evil Dead, The Last House On the Left, The Hills Have Eyes and Halloween, all low budget horror films. And all are infinitely better than The Beyond. So the low budget shit isn't working. There were hundreds of low budget horror movies made during the mid/late 70's, early 80's. And a lot of them were really great.

I like it, but don't consider it good. I have only watched it once, and was unmoved, but I'll watch it again just to see if there's more to it.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by Tat2
If you look at the film for what it is; a very low budget "B" movie. Fulci and Argento have a knack for creating SFX that are more inline with the bigger budget films of the same era. They don't spent the money on highly paid actors, locations etc, but do produce effective movies.

If you try to compare movies such as Seven Doors of Death with big budget movies like The Exorcist you will almost always be unhappy. It took me awhile to accept the Italian movies, thinking they were all bad, because I would always compare them to the bigger budget, U.S. made movies.

I finally figured out that I was missing a big part of good horror by excluding what I automatically thought was terrrible movies if they were Italian.

actually i was comparing it to other low budget italian thrillers .. which i have always liked.

I was looking around and saw a couple of things about this film ..
One - Fulchi is quoted as saying that it was a film with no plot .. just a series of images.
I totally agree and it went a long way to explain why i didnt like it .. it rambled.

Two - the hospital finale was tacked on as an afterthought .. to appeal the German zombie craze that was going on at the time.
and thats just how it felt to me ..

Actually everything felt 'tacked on' like one of those houses in the country .. where people keep adding rooms on rooms .. and end up with a mess.

I can appreciate that it was low budget $400,000 - but there are a lot of other low budget films i dont like .. for the same reasons.

[42ndStreetFreak]

"The Beyond" is a mind fuck and it's meant to be. it's like an abstract waking nightmare.

And it has fantastic atmosphere, stunning cinematography and set design, bizarre plot (but one that works), excellent music and some choice gore and set pieces.

Sure, some FX look dodgy (SPIDERS!) but overall this has some of the best Euro splatter ever seen.
From the nasty as hell chain whipping (that whole opening just DRIPS classy atmospheric horror!) to the truly outstanding, head explosion...this sucker delivers.

Delightfully messy zombies and some auperb visuals (the blind girl on the bridge, the dead taking over the hotel as the lights in each room come on) cap off this CLASSIC slice of Fulci.

[taylorsmommy]

Originally posted by 42ndStreetFreak
"The Beyond" is a mind fuck and it's meant to be. it's like an abstract waking nightmare.

And it has fantastic atmosphere, stunning cinematography and set design, bizarre plot (but one that works), excellent music and some choice gore and set pieces.

Sure, some FX look dodgy (SPIDERS!) but overall this has some of the best Euro splatter ever seen.
From the nasty as hell chain whipping (that whole opening just DRIPS classy atmospheric horror!) to the truly outstanding, head explosion...this sucker delivers.

Delightfully messy zombies and some auperb visuals (the blind girl on the bridge, the dead taking over the hotel as the lights in each room come on) cap off this CLASSIC slice of Fulci.

This is good to know - I have it in my queue with Netflix! Really looking forward to seeing it now.

[Angra]

Originally posted by 42ndStreetFreak
"....the dead taking over the hotel as the lights in each room come on....


That is such a cool scene. The best in the movie. Very creepy. :)

[tachii]

still haven't gotten around to seeing the beyond, is it worth a look? actually the only two fulci films i'm familiar with are zombi and the gates of hell (if i remember correctly). i've just been very hesitant to watch them since most are poorly rated.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by tachii
still haven't gotten around to seeing the beyond, is it worth a look? actually the only two fulci films i'm familiar with are zombi and the gates of hell (if i remember correctly). i've just been very hesitant to watch them since most are poorly rated.

well, you can see how divided the opinions are .. i definately recommend you check it out and see what your own conclusion is ..

i didnt like it but i was glad i saw it ... if that makes any sense.

[The_Return]

Originally posted by urgeok


i didnt like it but i was glad i saw it ... if that makes any sense.

I can think of soooo many movies that aplies to for me....I kow exactly what you mean.

[tachii]

moo

[Angra]

Originally posted by tachii
moo


I guess the question is: Did you like the two Fulci movies you´ve seen? If yes, then i think that "The beyond" could be something for you. If no, then stay the hell away from it!!! ;) :cool:

And if you can´t remember any of them, then i can only agree with Urgeok. Give it a shot. :)

[tachii]

okness, then

[EXTR3MIST]

The film is definately adult horror -

That is not to say the gory set pieces might not appeal to teenagers, but on the whole The Beyond is true horror in that it demands you accept it on its own terms - it's essentially about a few people being stuck in an environment of ghastly crumbling zombies and that's it.

For those who want substance over style all the time and need a more coherent plot to satisfy their fathoming-out skills of the film... The Beyond will likely rub you up the wrong way.

[Sedated_replica]

Originally posted by 42ndStreetFreak
"The Beyond" is a mind fuck and it's meant to be. it's like an abstract waking nightmare.

And it has fantastic atmosphere, stunning cinematography and set design, bizarre plot (but one that works), excellent music and some choice gore and set pieces.

Sure, some FX look dodgy (SPIDERS!) but overall this has some of the best Euro splatter ever seen.
From the nasty as hell chain whipping (that whole opening just DRIPS classy atmospheric horror!) to the truly outstanding, head explosion...this sucker delivers.

Delightfully messy zombies and some auperb visuals (the blind girl on the bridge, the dead taking over the hotel as the lights in each room come on) cap off this CLASSIC slice of Fulci.

CORRECT

bitches!

[The STE]

Originally posted by 42ndStreetFreak
(the blind girl on the bridge, the dead taking over the hotel as the lights in each room come on) cap off this CLASSIC slice of Fulci.

Which makes this all the more irritating. As I've said, Fulci is/can be a really good director. He has an eye for great shots. But the movie just doesn't work. Even as a "surreal mind fuck". I can forgive the bad effects, the real problems are in the writing. It's like Sacchetti said "I want this character to be killed by tarantulas...no, NO! I want him to be EATEN ALIVE by tarantulas...but how to get him there...hell with it, I'll just have them show up." Stuff like that and the acting just kills the movie

[42ndStreetFreak]

.hell with it, I'll just have them show up."

I don't see your point.

The whole thing is about supernatural events. Hardly anything is 'solid' and based on reality.
How can you apply logic to what is a supernatural tale?

The zombies appear and dissapear as well. The plans of the house change, the blind girl comes and goes, the bathtub changes from full of grime and a zombie to being clean and empty and spiders appear and then vanish.

A tree attcks a woman in "The Evil Dead". Does that make any sense at all?
No...because it's a supernatural film and as such ANYTHING can happen.

And although this is NOT JUST a gore film, it does indeed have gore set-pieces (like some films have shoot-outs or car chases) and so these set-pices are made to be as OTT and crowd pleasing as possible.

And having a guy (in the middle of a seemingly normal, daylit public space where the very idea of flesh eating spiders is so unexpected! Which is again a GREAT aspect of the scene) having his face eaten by spiders is just that.....OTT and crowd pleasing.

You can't apply logic to one scene when the WHOLE film is full of logic defying supernatural events.
Which is the point of the film anyway.

[Sedated_replica]

Yeah get em'!

[The STE]

Originally posted by 42ndStreetFreak
I don't see your point.

The whole thing is about supernatural events. Hardly anything is 'solid' and based on reality.
How can you apply logic to what is a supernatural tale?

The zombies appear and dissapear as well. The plans of the house change, the blind girl comes and goes, the bathtub changes from full of grime and a zombie to being clean and empty and spiders appear and then vanish.

A tree attcks a woman in "The Evil Dead". Does that make any sense at all?
No...because it's a supernatural film and as such ANYTHING can happen.

And although this is NOT JUST a gore film, it does indeed have gore set-pieces (like some films have shoot-outs or car chases) and so these set-pices are made to be as OTT and crowd pleasing as possible.

And having a guy (in the middle of a seemingly normal, daylit public space where the very idea of flesh eating spiders is so unexpected! Which is again a GREAT aspect of the scene) having his face eaten by spiders is just that.....OTT and crowd pleasing.

You can't apply logic to one scene when the WHOLE film is full of logic defying supernatural events.
Which is the point of the film anyway.



There has to be SOME kind of set of rules. If just anything can happen then it takes away from it. I'm not asking it to be a realistic, serious horror. We've got Open Water for that. All I'm asking is that they give their omnipotent evil some abilities, some restrictions, and stick to them. Because if it can just do whatever it wants and make anything appear, then the movie isn't nearly as interesting. It could just kill anybody any time, and it's apparently really stupid because it DOESN'T kill all the people who will/could get in its way. It makes tarantulas appear. Why? Why tarantulas? Why then and not earlier? Why doesn't it sic latex-eating tarantulas on the main girl? Or the Henry Fonda/Sean Bean hybrid main guy? Why doesn't it use something that kills the person a bit more effectively? Like one of those big snakes? This has nothing to do with the evil's abilities, but why does the guy just lay there? It's been a little while, so I can't remember if he was knocked out, cause I seem to remember him seeing the tarantulas. Why hasn't anything happened until now? Why does it take so long to fulfil its plan? Why does it make people go blind?

The tree rape made perfect sense in the context of the movie. The disembodied force had taken control (or posessed, whatever) the forest when the tape was played. It could control the trees. It had the trees rape the girl, which probably had something to do with her getting posessed. The Evil couldn't just do whatever it wanted whenever it wanted. That would have ruined the movie.

[The STE]

Originally posted by Sedated_replica
Yeah get em'!

you seem to be taking this very personally

[Sedated_replica]

Originally posted by The STE
you seem to be taking this very personally

You hurt my feeling's..... [tear] :( .

No I thought you would like the movie. I personally don't think it was fair about how much you hated it. I agree with you a lot of times but I think you were being alittle harsh too a decent movie.

[The STE]

Originally posted by Sedated_replica
You hurt my feeling's..... [tear] :( .

No I thought you would like the movie. I personally don't think it was fair about how much you hated it. I agree with you a lot of times but I think you were being alittle harsh too a decent movie.

If it were all the way bad, it would have been decent. Like I said, the thing that makes me really dislike the movie is that it shows signs of real talent from Fulci. He has a good eye, and it shows. He could have made a movie that was a LOT better than this. I'm not saying he should've just made regular type "legit" movies. But he could have. And it's the fact that the movie could have been a lot better that makes it so bad. Has nothing to do with the talent involved or the budget or any of that. Even a movie with a great director and a great cast can suck etc. I know all that. But this movie shows signs that this movie could have been better regardless of who was involved, and THAT'S why I'm so hard on it. If it showed no signs that it could have been any better, I would probably have given it a little higher of a rating.



And no, I don't hate it. You will never see me say that I hate a movie except North. I love movies, and no matter how much I may dislike a movie, I still have a little tiny spot in my heart for it, just like I do for every other movie ever made. I do not like Seven Doors of Death. I gave it about 1/5, if that, and probably won't watch it except when I review it for my upcoming (?) site. I just plain don't like it. But I love it nonetheless. I don't hate ANY movie. Except North.

[Sedated_replica]

Originally posted by The STE
I don't hate ANY movie. Except North.

You don't hate Any movie besides North. I hate fuckin' TONS of movies! Like the TCM remake

[The STE]

Originally posted by Sedated_replica
You don't hate Any movie besides North. I hate fuckin' TONS of movies! Like the TCM remake

Oh, I don't like tons of movies. I agree that the TCM remake was a horrible, horrible movie. It was just this awful, shitty movie. But I don't hate it. I love movies too much to hate any of them. Except, as I said, North.

[EXTR3MIST]

There has to be SOME kind of set of rules. If just anything can happen then it takes away from it

Not necessarily -

With Lucio Fulci's films in particular, he asks the viewer to make a leap of faith in trusting his stories not to be incoherent or nonsensical - you can tell they are crafted with such love that you will put logic aside for 90 minutes and just go along for the ride.

From personal experience, this does not come easy - renting some of his (albeit BBFC censored) movies as a teenager I didn't like them at all; something to do with shoddy acting/dubbing and random plotting didn't make me feel very clever when watching them.

However, as time goes by and the more skillfully acted, tightly plotted, downright boring commercial movies have come and gone from my viewing schedule, going back to the likes of The Beyond and City of the Living Dead brings back the childlike appreciation of horror that makes Fulci's movies so special.

Fulci's stories do play by rules - his own. Just accepting the frequent lapses in logic are not down to laziness but rather over enthusiasm is a good start - but I think too many viewers treat "daft" scenes as insulting to their intelligence and to this end Lucio is never going to be a favourite.

[The STE]

But if there are no rules in the movie then it doesn't matter what happens in it. And if the point is just to have cool deaths, then have cool deaths. The deaths in the movie either go on forever or are lame and predictable. And almost all of them are contrived. The spiders, the conveniently placed acid, the fall from the improbably wide scaffolding, the super-predictable dog attack. They all suck.

They don't even say WHAT the omnipotent evil is. It's just that something is making this happen. Okay, something's doing it. What? It's the kind of thing you can't keep from the audience. Just give me something. Even if it's lame, just give me SOMETHING.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by The STE
But if there are no rules in the movie then it doesn't matter what happens in it. And if the point is just to have cool deaths, then have cool deaths. The deaths in the movie either go on forever or are lame and predictable. And almost all of them are contrived. The spiders, the conveniently placed acid, the fall from the improbably wide scaffolding, the super-predictable dog attack. They all suck.

They don't even say WHAT the omnipotent evil is. It's just that something is making this happen. Okay, something's doing it. What? It's the kind of thing you can't keep from the audience. Just give me something. Even if it's lame, just give me SOMETHING.


actually the acid wasnt conveniently placed at all .. it was quite a distance away .. that scene drove me nuts.

Fulchi had a limited budget ,, he had some ideas to do some fun little kills so he shot them and losely wove them together with this doorway to hell idea. - at least thats what it looked like to me.

to me it felt like a high budget student film .. a bunch of ideas thrown together. Its easy to go back and say 'its not supposed to make any sense'
I bet the guys that made Ishtar would like to use that excuse.
"it wasn't supposed to be funny'

I can appreciate that there is some nice camera work, some good lighting, etc .. but the whole tossed salad approach didnt work for me at all.

and the thing is .. i like surreal abstract films .. i just didnt get any sense of the atmosphere in this film that most people rave about.

i get the impression that the reason people praise this film so much .. is the little girl getting her head blown off .. its the one constant people keep mentioning in all of the fan sites as the coolest thing in the film.

[42ndStreetFreak]

Then again I guess you get the wrong 'impression' or are simply saying people think like you.

There have been numerous reasons mentioned for why people like this film.
NUMEROUS reasons...and reasons that have been backed up.

In a film that has 'gore scenes' as a big (but not ONLY) part of it's make-up then these scenes are important and if they are good they get praised. And the gilrs head scene IS good. Very good.

but is that the only reason people like this film? No, and I have seen NO ONE on here make such a statement. It's simply been mentioned as one of the many positives in the film.

Just as any fan of "Scanners" will mention ITS head explosion.

Just as any fan of "Dawn of the Dead" mentions ITS head explosion.

Just as any fan of "Day of the Dead" will mention Rhodes being ripped in half.

And just like "The Beyond"....they are all valid strengths and highlights to mention.
BUT just like "The Beyond", they are not the ONLY reasons why people like these films.

[The STE]

Originally posted by 42ndStreetFreak
Just as any fan of "Dawn of the Dead" mentions ITS head explosion.

I don't

actually the acid wasnt conveniently placed at all .. it was quite a distance away ..

I meant conveniently placed so that it would spill all over her head. Isn't that the kind of thing you DON'T put in places like that? And if it was quite a distance away then it's convenient that she went all that distance in her state of panic or whatever right to the vat of easily spilled acid

[42ndStreetFreak]

Originally posted by The STE
I don't


Really. Well the example still works otherwise you would have quoted the other 2 examples as well.

And as good as every discussion about "Day of the Dead" i have seen goes on about the FX and especially Rhode's death.
I guess that's the only reason anyone bothers to watch "day of the Dead" as well. :rolleyes:

Like i said, ALL gory films have their gory scenes highlighted and if well done they are much liked and talked about.
So this is a non-arguement as far as "The Beyond" goes.

And just because they are mentioned does not prove that they are the ONLY reason people like the film.
And i have yet to read anything that says the opposite.

[The STE]

Originally posted by 42ndStreetFreak
Really. Well the example still works otherwise you would have quoted the other 2 examples as well.

I'm not a fan of Day of the Dead and all I've seen from Scanners is the head exploding

[urgeok]

Originally posted by The STE
I'm not a fan of Day of the Dead and all I've seen from Scanners is the head exploding

it would be tough for me to reccomend Scanners to just anyone ...
I like it - i saw it when it was new .. vintage cronenberg .. but fans of horror today might find it a bit off. the lead is pretty wooden .. he wasnt really an actor - he was a visual artist.
Somehow - for me - the less than polished performances in cronenbergs earlier films make them work .. make them seem more real. (especially Shivers)

he was the ultimate 70's horror film maker for me ..gritty and creepy.

i guess i'm saying .. check it out ... just prepare yourself for a less than polished look and feel..
(again, this is why i like it)

[EXTR3MIST]

There's a lot of talk about seeking meaning and consistency in Fulci's films... but where does it stop?

If one scene is explained away and grudgingly accepted by detractors, they will inevitably pick fault with another.

It is a troublesome approach to indulging in 1970's/80's exploitation - if you are likely to praise, say, The Last House on the Left or I Spit on Your Grave for their "gritty realism", but are unable to accept The Beyond's world of fantastic scenarios and stretched logic then perhaps a really good drama with nasty bits is all you're after.

I think there are essentially two camps - those who don't like Fulci's refusal (or inability) to pander to his audience's logical expectations, and those who see this trait as a virtue and put it all down to wonderful over enthusiasm.

[The STE]

Originally posted by EXTR3MIST
There's a lot of talk about seeking meaning and consistency in Fulci's films... but where does it stop?

If one scene is explained away and grudgingly accepted by detractors, they will inevitably pick fault with another.

It is a troublesome approach to indulging in 1970's/80's exploitation - if you are likely to praise, say, The Last House on the Left or I Spit on Your Grave for their "gritty realism", but are unable to accept The Beyond's world of fantastic scenarios and stretched logic then perhaps a really good drama with nasty bits is all you're after.

I think there are essentially two camps - those who don't like Fulci's refusal (or inability) to pander to his audience's logical expectations, and those who see this trait as a virtue and put it all down to wonderful over enthusiasm.

You can't narrow it down to two camps. I'm fully willing to accept this, but only if it's done well. In The Beyond it wasn't.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by EXTR3MIST
There's a lot of talk about seeking meaning and consistency in Fulci's films... but where does it stop?

If one scene is explained away and grudgingly accepted by detractors, they will inevitably pick fault with another.

It is a troublesome approach to indulging in 1970's/80's exploitation - if you are likely to praise, say, The Last House on the Left or I Spit on Your Grave for their "gritty realism", but are unable to accept The Beyond's world of fantastic scenarios and stretched logic then perhaps a really good drama with nasty bits is all you're after.

I think there are essentially two camps - those who don't like Fulci's refusal (or inability) to pander to his audience's logical expectations, and those who see this trait as a virtue and put it all down to wonderful over enthusiasm.


what are the audiences logical expectations ?
i have over 3 dozen films in the genre (italian splatter horror) and my only expectation is to be entertained.
I'm not a stickler for rules, or a linear story, or an involved plot, or coherency even - if i find the visuals interesting ..
again .. i had heard and read such hype about this film .. i was gung-ho to see it, warts and all .. i just didnt expect it to be so uneven and amateurish in its construction.
I simply sense no atmosphere of any kind.

even the 'shock scenes' were done in uninteresting ways.
Maybe if I'd seen this before a lot of other horror films I might think it was a lot cooler.
I'll watch it again .. i'm interested in hearing the commentary.

[EXTR3MIST]

You can't narrow it down to two camps. I'm fully willing to accept this, but only if it's done well. In The Beyond it wasn't.

Essentially, you can - I'm willing to have a shot at least.

The Beyond may be easy to pick fault with, but its minority of fans will always come out fighting from the Fulci corner.

Probably nobody can claim to fully understand exploitation like this, but the charm present in these films far overrides the lapses in logic and makes the suspension of disbelief all the easier.

For some, anyway.

[EXTR3MIST]

what are the audiences logical expectations ?

That, say, there must be some backstory to a load of spiders suddenly appearing to take chunks out of a strangely paralysed man.

Or why people suddenly go blind and take on wierd eyes.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by EXTR3MIST
That, say, there must be some backstory to a load of spiders suddenly appearing to take chunks out of a strangely paralysed man.

Or why people suddenly go blind and take on wierd eyes.


oh hell i didnt care about that ... its not exactly the only time the eye thing has been done. (as a sign of possession)
pretty commonplace actually

i did find the fake spiders distracting ...

that wasnt my problem with the film though ..

[The STE]

like I said, a movie can get away with anything if you do it right. The Beyond doesn't

[EXTR3MIST]

All those The Beyond fans take one step forward...!

Where the FUCK are YOU going, STE/urgeok??!!!

[The STE]

Originally posted by EXTR3MIST
All those The Beyond fans take one step forward...!

Where the FUCK are YOU going, STE/urgeok??!!!

I'm going to Sonic to get a double cheeseburger and some popcorn chicken. You want anything?

[urgeok]

Originally posted by EXTR3MIST
All those The Beyond fans take one step forward...!

Where the FUCK are YOU going, STE/urgeok??!!!


heh :)

[EXTR3MIST]

I'm going to Sonic to get a double cheeseburger and some popcorn chicken. You want anything?

Is there anything that spikey-ass hog CAN'T do?

I'll pass - it's 5:30pm and I'm away to get very, very drunk.

[The STE]

Originally posted by EXTR3MIST
Is there anything that spikey-ass hog CAN'T do?

I'll pass - it's 5:30pm and I'm away to get very, very drunk.

I take it they don't have any Sonics over there...

[42ndStreetFreak]

EXTR3MIST tries to put his finger on what you can't really put your finger on in my view.

It's like if you don't like or get horror films in general.
People that hate horror say basically the same things about the whole genre (ESPECIALLY the lower budget, more unusual end) that have been said about just one film, "The Beyond", on here.

And on the surface what they say is true...like the spiders.

But to those who do like and 'get' these films that 'truth' simply does not matter as what's more important is the way the film is handled, what it sets out to do and how well it does it.
Given the fantasy situation we simply don't give a damn about 'logic' behind the spiders....how the scene with the spiders is done is all that matters.

It's a 'fantatsy' that seems to being accused of being TOO fantastical because some viewers are saying THEY need more logic.
But not all of us do. THAT is not a fault of the film, it's something purely down to each individual viewer.
And those that ARE happy with it don't want it any different.

But you won't change the minds of people who do dislike such films for such reasons,as on a basic level they are right....you either get stuff like "The Beyond" or you don't.
Simple as that as far as i can see.

On every basic level an Andy Milligan film is awful and as far as almost every 'normal' film goes there is no 'logic' behind liking it.
But i would have ANY Andy Milligan trash fest before ANY passionless, souless, empty movie like "I Know what you did Last Summer".
Yet if someone says THE TRUTH about it being better made on EVERY SINGLE LEVEL I would agree...but it makes no difference.

And those that don't get that will never get it as their reasons for disliking the Milligan film are basically the truth on the surface.

[The STE]

Maybe I'm not making myself clear. I like films LIKE The Beyond. I just don't like The Beyond. It's not that it's too fantastical, it's just that it's not good.

[Angra]

How can you guys keep arguing about this subject?

Why not just face that some like it while some don´t and then leave it with that, and get on with your lifes...


It´s beyond my comprehension? :confused:




Peace!








:cool:

[urgeok]

Originally posted by Angra
How can you guys keep arguing about this subject?

Why not just face that some like it while some don´t and then leave it with that, and get on with your lifes...


It´s beyond my comprehension? :confused:
Peace!



:cool:

i wouldnt say its an arguement, just an exchange of 2 points of view.
Healthy discussion is what the forum is for. It would be pretty stale if everyone liked and disliked everything the same.

[Angra]

Originally posted by urgeok
i wouldnt say its an arguement, just an exchange of 2 points of view.
Healthy discussion is what the forum is for. It would be pretty stale if everyone liked and disliked everything the same.


Right, but this is page 7 and the discussion began on page 1. THIS IS UNHEALTHY AND INZANE!!!!!!


WUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHH!!!!!!!!!! :eek: :eek:


fnar, fnar, fnar, fnar.. hubba, hubba, hubba... CUCKOOO!!...

[Sedated_replica]

ITS INZANE!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

[EXTR3MIST]

Probably more out of your league than inzane, Angra - no offence an' all.

It's all Beyond me anyway...

[Angra]

Originally posted by EXTR3MIST
Probably more out of your league than inzane, Angra - no offence an' all.

It's all Beyond me anyway...


Out of my league!!?

What the fnar, fnar, hubba are you talking about?...... Duh? LOL





No, i just don´t wanna discuss the same subject over and over and over... Etc.


Life is too short for that.



Peace






:cool:

[EXTR3MIST]

Then don't.

But excuse people who want to flex their minds a little more.

Hubba hubba!

[Angra]

Originally posted by EXTR3MIST
Then don't.

But excuse people who want to flex their minds a little more.

Hubba hubba!


NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!


This discussion is going nowhere and havn´t since it began on page 3. It reminds me of the Thread about "Cannibal Holocaust". LOL

These guys needs HELP!! ;) :p

[EXTR3MIST]

It did go somewhere in discovering more angles and points of view on the film The Beyond.

But you're right, it sure ain't going nowhere now.

[Sedated_replica]

You're right this thread is going no where............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..........................................






































[slowly walks away]

[42ndStreetFreak]

Oh i don't know...It seems to have it's uses.......
It's helping a lot of pains in the arse, out to purely annoy and moan about something they keep saying they have no interest in, boost their post count with crap posts.

Strange...Threads about 'where is our piss head mascot gone?' go on for pages and everyone is happy.

Threads made up of "I wusss pissedd and thingz an felllt fuunnnyy in the head lst nigt' are in multiple numbers and get plenty of replies.

BUT GOD FORBID a discussion on a horror film goes on for more than 5 posts!!! What were we thinking!??

[Angra]

Originally posted by 42ndStreetFreak
Oh i don't know...It seems to have it's uses.......
It's helping a lot of pains in the arse, out to purely annoy and moan about something they keep saying they have no interest in, boost their post count with crap posts.

Strange...Threads about 'where is our piss head mascot gone?' go on for pages and everyone is happy.

Threads made up of "I wusss pissedd and thingz an felllt fuunnnyy in the head lst nigt' are in multiple numbers and get plenty of replies.

BUT GOD FORBID a discussion on a horror film goes on for more than 5 posts!!! What were we thinking!??


LOL. :p


Sorry. I see your point.

Please continue your neverending discussion.


Peace


:cool:

[Sedated_replica]

Originally posted by 42ndStreetFreak
Oh i don't know...It seems to have it's uses.......
It's helping a lot of pains in the arse, out to purely annoy and moan about something they keep saying they have no interest in, boost their post count with crap posts.

Strange...Threads about 'where is our piss head mascot gone?' go on for pages and everyone is happy.

Threads made up of "I wusss pissedd and thingz an felllt fuunnnyy in the head lst nigt' are in multiple numbers and get plenty of replies.

BUT GOD FORBID a discussion on a horror film goes on for more than 5 posts!!! What were we thinking!??

Hey, he's always right..

Fuckin' Clown shoes... Seven Doors still rocks