Rip Off vs Homage

[urgeok]

There has been a lot of chit chat in the movie forums about who is ripping off who. (Rob Zombie ripping off TCM, etc)

I have seen examples where it seemed clear to me that someone was ripping off someone elses work to make up for a lack of creative vision but i also see some film makers who are huge fans and are really paying homage to the films that came before.

I dont know what exactly is the subtle nuance for me that seperates the two but let me give some examples.

Rob Zombie. Horror is the biggest motivating driver in this guys life. I believe that he wanted to bring a lot of the elements from the 70's horror films he dug and pump them into a new film. This was done out of love for the genre. Definately an homage, not a rip off.

Wes Craven. Scream was an homage to the 80's slasher films.
I didnt think he was ripping anyone off but himself. He wanted a movie to reward long time fanss of the genre by throwing a lot of in-jokes into the mix. If it hadnt become such a commercial and critical success people here would be going on about its genius ad-infinitum.

Brian DePalma. This guy has been ripping off Hitchcock over and over again. He's a brilliant filmmaker but he is constantly reworking the best Hitchcock films.
If you do it once its an homage, if you do it endlessly then you are ripping off.
(dressed to kill = psycho/body double = vertigo/blowout = blow up (ok thats not hitchcock but you get the drift)
I dont think Sisters was a very origional idea either.

I think its the spirit behind the film. Is it done with love and respect or is it done to capture a prepackaged audience so there is minimal financial risk.

Whats the consensus on this ? Anone concur or disagree - or know any other examples ?

[Vodstok]

I concur. There is definately a difference between "wink-wink, nudge-nudge" references to another movie, and say... Doing a complete fucking frame-for-frame "reworking" of an existing one....

[zombie2112]

I agree with you, Urgeok.

I think that in an homage, you definitely put something of yourself in there, kind of make it your own while still showing what it is that inspired you.

When you rip off, you just do the same all over, without the flavour.

I dunno - it's a fine line and kind of hard to explain.

I'm a writer and mostly inspired by all the movies I watch and like. It's so easy to just "do what he/she did" - and so hard to let it simmer until it's ready to come out tasting of me.

(Yeah, I'll go get some rest now)

[jay o2 waster]

in rob zombies case, i don't really see it as a rip off, he has said that these movies have been such an enomuse part of his llife that he wanted to make one to honor it. For me a rip off is when somebody does something for the money.

[feral cat]

It depends if they freely acknowledge the source I see it as a re-working not a “rip off”, its silly how much fuss people make about these “Homage” movies and then go see a lame remake, at least these “inspired by”, movies try and add something new and not just sell themselves off the back of a well none “Brand name” film!

[Hate_Breeder]

Well TCM ripped off the story of Ed Gein therefore isnt THAT original. Although it did influence many films to come. Not exactly "ripping" something off though..

[Gren the cake]

i just remmeber van hellsing's dracula tryign to be exactly like bram stokers dracula. not only dracula, but the female draculas too.

lame. did an ok job, but stil. then again, what other kind of dracula is there?

[urgeok]

Originally posted by Gren the cake
i just remmeber van hellsing's dracula tryign to be exactly like bram stokers dracula. not only dracula, but the female draculas too.

lame. did an ok job, but stil. then again, what other kind of dracula is there?

van helsings dracula was like frigging count chocula ..
good lord i laughed at every line that guy had.
until i remembered that i paid money to see it ..


AND a babysitter !!!

[Gren the cake]

i saw it for free on military base :)

and i actualyl liked the movie! lol fun fantasy type thing, love hugh, the outfits were cool. and i liked frankenstein too :)

and it had some startling moments that i liked. definitely not a GREAT movie but i thought it was entertaining.

[Kemal]

Basing one story on another doesn't make it a rip-off. Stories get told, retold, and appropriated by other cultures. Elements of stories get mixed. I think just about every military adventure story is a retelling of the Odyssey. Everything's been done before. The trick is to do it well, and to change settings, characters, and to have your own "twist."

[urgeok]

Originally posted by Kemal
Basing one story on another doesn't make it a rip-off. Stories get told, retold, and appropriated by other cultures. Elements of stories get mixed. I think just about every military adventure story is a retelling of the Odyssey. Everything's been done before. The trick is to do it well, and to change settings, characters, and to have your own "twist."


the military example is pretty vague .. war is about man vs man. winning and/or survival.
There was probably a story before the Odyssey that was about war in that case .. unless its the 1st recorded fictional account of conflict.

Simply basing a story on another isnt a rip off per say, its how it was done.

Until i sit and think of a better way to articulate this i can only use depalma as my best example .. blow out AND Body Double .. thats a bit much.

It was just too close to the source. Had he simply remade Blow Up or Vertigo i wouldnt have felt so weird about it. The changes he made just seemed pointless. I think its the fact that it was dome more than once made it a bit off in my view.
Sort of like a band selling itself with cover versions instead of developing better origional material. If a band does it once, its a fun goof .... but if they keep doing it ... it doesnt sit well.

[MisterSadistro]

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery". I agree that if the filmmaker gives the nod to someone as an influence and acknowledges it, that's cool. To repetitively rip off the same ideas, premise, characters, etc. from anyone is not.
Anyone else remember Kingdom Come, a band that looked and sounded more like Led Zeppelin than Led Zeppelin did and they came off as if they had never even heard of Led Zep before ?
CK

[urgeok]

Originally posted by MisterSadistro
"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery". I agree that if the filmmaker gives the nod to someone as an influence and acknowledges it, that's cool. To repetitively rip off the same ideas, premise, characters, etc. from anyone is not.
Anyone else remember Kingdom Come, a band that looked and sounded more like Led Zeppelin than Led Zeppelin did and they came off as if they had never even heard of Led Zep before ?
CK


or Rancid, who claimed they never heard the Clash ?

[Elvis_Christ]

or Rancid, who claimed they never heard the Clash ? :confused: Rancid are way different from the Clash. God I hate the Clash overated assholes I'm sick of people going on about them.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by Elvis_Christ
:confused: Rancid are way different from the Clash. God I hate the Clash overated assholes I'm sick of people going on about them.


i was never in love with the clash - apart from their first album ... but if you dont think that Rancid sounds just like them you have to be kidding me ..

[filmmaker2]

I know that the "Dawn of the Dead" remake was a licensed property, and everyone who owned the original got their money, etc. And I also know that film is a commercial medium; it's an art form that exists primarily to make money for its investors. Technically it's not a "rip-off," but it does have vibrations of money-sucking evil about it.

Man, what an unnecessary, crassly commercial, and badly executed abomination it was (in my personal and deeply heartfelt opinion)! I mean, a lot of people liked it, and that's cool, I'm not dissing those good folks, but I personally was appalled.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by filmmaker2
I know that the "Dawn of the Dead" remake was a licensed property, and everyone who owned the original got their money, etc. And I also know that film is a commercial medium; it's an art form that exists primarily to make money for its investors. Technically it's not a "rip-off," but it does have vibrations of money-sucking evil about it.

Man, what an unnecessary, crassly commercial, and badly executed abomination it was (in my personal and deeply heartfelt opinion)! I mean, a lot of people liked it, and that's cool, I'm not dissing those good folks, but I personally was appalled.

man i thought the complete opposite. It looked like a labour of love to me.
No one make a zombie movie thinking it will be a critical success.. let alone the 'remake' of a cult favorite. I thought it was a huge risk, and like you - i'm not dissing the people who didnt like it ..
I just dont understand why some people didnt

[filmmaker2]

I think I'm just really attached to the original film, which I thought was near brilliant. The "new spin" put on the remake didn't strike me as very inspired. It kinda tastes like one of those puffed rice crackers to me, you know, mostly air.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by filmmaker2
I think I'm just really attached to the original film, which I thought was near brilliant. The "new spin" put on the remake didn't strike me as very inspired. It kinda tastes like one of those puffed rice crackers to me, you know, mostly air.

i've been a huge fan of the origional since it came out.
But i still liked the remake .. i liked the characters ..esp. the main guy.
Most criticisms come from the fact that the zombies ran instead of doing the proper zombie shuffle...i didnt much care.

I really found the characters origional and refreshing .. even the ones you thought were cliched suprised you in the end.


And the celebrity turkey shoot was priceless..

[filmmaker2]

Maybe I should watch it again? Hmmmm...

[Elvis_Christ]

i was never in love with the clash - apart from their first album ... but if you dont think that Rancid sounds just like them you have to be kidding me ..

Yeh the first album is the only one l like aswell. Yep I must be kidding you! I mean there are some similarities but I wouldn't say they sounded exactley like them. The Clash are way more rock n' roll than Rancid. Some of the songs on ...And out come the wolves do have a Clash feel tho.

[Death By Jell-O]

I thought the DOTD remake was very tasteful.....They didn't butcher it like they did with the TCSM remake......I thought it was a very good homage to the original.....And it sucked that Andy died....

[filmmaker2]

You know what's funny? I couldn't stand the "Dawn of the Dead" remake, but I really liked the "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" remake. Actually, it scared the hell out of me! I was very nervous throughout the experience of watching TCM. But somehow, "Dawn of the Dead" didn't faze me at all. Just didn't seem scary.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by filmmaker2
You know what's funny? I couldn't stand the "Dawn of the Dead" remake, but I really liked the "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" remake. Actually, it scared the hell out of me! I was very nervous throughout the experience of watching TCM. But somehow, "Dawn of the Dead" didn't faze me at all. Just didn't seem scary.

that will never be a criteria for me because i havent found any movie scary for about 20 years. I'm happy if they are effective, entertaining, and involve me.

I thought the characters were great .. very real .. with the exception of the big gross bloated lady that died right away.
She didnt look human at any point.

But the others .. i've met people like everyone in that movie ..