Alcohol V Weed

[Cheeba V2.0]

Just thought I'd get a few peoples perspectives on the whole deal...I myself had to justify myself to a friend who drinks on a regular basis.
To me, it's just a matter of how each would effect you personally.
I'm not here to try and change anyones opinions or anything...so yeah, here's my side of things, I'll just repost my side of the convo I had earlier...

"I personally think it's a little more sensible than drinking...but that's only from my individual perspective, I don't expect anybody to have to adopt my views on the matter. The way I see it, if it's done in moderation, there shouldn't be a problem with it.
I don't drink alcohol (apart from y'know occasions n shit), or smoke tobacco...so overall my body is in better shape than the majority.
For at least myself, weed does not induce violent behaviour, and you'll be WAY less likely to be involved in a car accident.
Why? Because alcoholics seem to think it's a good idea to drink drive when they're wasted, where those that are stoned simply cannot be bothered to.
I'm kinda sick of getting judged about this, yknow?
I mean a lot of people that have worse, more self destructive, and more REGULAR habits (eg smoking and drinking) actually put shit on me, simply because of the legality issue, or using the same old "it's a gateway drug" line, yet to date, all I've tried is weed, and 'shrooms (once), and nothing manufactured.
Again, I maintain that I'm doing my body far less damage with what I do, and I'm also less of a public threat this way...dont ya think? No secondary smoke for others, no getting into fights (trust me, when I'm drunk, I'm one big, angry, almost unstoppable motherfucker), no drink driving...see, when you just THINK about it, it's pretty much better for the user, and the general public than either drinking OR smoking...
As for the legality issue, in my opinion, this was clearly a law created to benefit the drinkers.., and enforced by those that aren't prepared to meet half way. Laws aren't always fair.

So...thoughts?
Let's try to keep it mature, shall we?

[urgeok]

there's no contest .. alcohol is far worse.

exibit a: Shanks..

seriously .. alcohol is worse ...

the piss poor arguement people want to raise with weed is that weed leads to bigger and worse things.

bullshit. the willingness to experiment led to the bigger and better things.
if you have an addictive personality you will always press forward.. keep trying things to the excess.

Weed is not a stepping stone to hard drugs.
Only a fool would think so... someone looking for the easy answer.

alcohol has done more damage in society than any other abusive substances combined.

[Gren the cake]

i dont

im too weird as it is.

[Cheeba V2.0]

Urgeok...
Despite our past issues,
I like where you're coming from here man.., not just that you were agreeing with me, but you make a good point, a good, honest, and true to life point.
My respect for you has raised significantly, however much you personally value it.

- B

[Gren the cake]

what is B stand for?

[BoneSaw]

i agree, weed doesnt make you sick or feel like shit the next day. weed is all natural, you pick it, dry it, smoke it. ive never met anyone who got weed poisoning, although i do know several who od'ed on drink. there is no fermentation process in weed. try this, the next time you smoke with a couple of people, put a tape recorder in the room, with their permission of course, and you will hear some of the deepest conversations you will ever hear. try it with alcohol, and eventually all you will hear will be crying and i love you man and shit like that.

[Cheeba V2.0]

B stands for my name.
I'll let you know somewhere down the line...maybe.

Nice to meet you, bonesaw...good point about the convo's.

[urgeok]

weed has an undeniable mellowing effect.
the abuse of alcohol often draws out the true nature of the person.
Whatever you harbour beneath the surface ,, out it comes for better or worse. generally worse because most people dont hide their good traits .. unless they're shy.

alcohol has a high chance of doing the jekyll n hyde dance with most people where weed doesnt seem to at all.

i'm not going to even get into all of the far reaching social ramifications because we all see them in the news every day.

weed ... boosts the sale of junk food ... great for the economy.

the usa is pissed at canada actually because we are more lenient on possession, where the usa see it as a direct slap in the face of their 'war on drugs'

[Angelakillsluts]

I like to drink and I also smoke on occasion, but I prefer drinking to be honest. For one thing, it's socially acceptable and in general, most people won't hold anything against you if you drink. I also just prefer drinking with friends as opposed to smoking with them.

I think both smoking and drinking are good in moderation (Stress relief with smoking and social benefits with drinking) but the extremes of both are definately hazardous to your health.

Of course, with alcohol you also have drunk driving. Which is why, in my opinion, Alcohol is definately worse.

[BoneSaw]

nice to re-meet you again. ive been around for quite some time, someone just likes to ban people around here.

[I_Still_Know!]

What about Weed Vs Alcohol Vs Manufactured?

I would go the third option if I had a choice - but only in extreme moderation.

[Cheeba V2.0]

Bonesaw...ok then, what are your previous names?

"it's socially acceptable and in general, most people won't hold anything against you if you drink."

Acceptance isn't that important to me, because it's only really those that cannot accept the "evil" in their own habits that don't accept the lifestyle choices of others. Acceptance SHOULD be a two way street, but to a lot of people, it's unfortunately very black and white...seriously, I can understand the "merits" of getting tanked for some, I just personally don't share their enthusiasm for alcohol.
Dogma is HUGE on this topic.
I am glad you seem willing to at least look at both sides of the issue.


I_S_K, I guess if you're up to the RISK of the more chemical drugs, that's all good...no doubt you're aware of the issues surrounding use of the manuactured drugs.
I'd suggest if you wanted to try something along those lines, try mushrooms. They're available from about newcastle upwards (for us aussies), they're quite fun, and they would HAVE to do less damage than the "pills" of various discriptions that are on the streets nowdays. In my "as yet unexperienced in chemical drugs" point of view, I'd say that the effect would more than likely be easier to handle, and probably more fun.

Of course, marijuana isn't the only thing to smoke. I grow a rather interesting plant at home called Salvia divinorum (aka diviners sage)...if you can make an extract out of it, it makes for quite a good smoke. It's known as a "shamanic" herb.
If you smoke a joint or cone of this stuff, it literally has an amazing effect..similar to REAL lsd (shrooms), but a little more overwhelming, you feel like you're falling, and simply cannot stop laughing...the whole thing works almost like an outer body experience. It can be a little much, so anybody considering use should take it slowly. Best thing is, for some reason it only lasts for about 3-5 minues per hit, then the effects simply dissapear...no after effects, nothing, you just all of a sudden snap out of it.
If anybody is able to get this, I'd suggest investigation, especially if you're looking for something a little more "interesting" than weed. It's a good, non-manufactured alternative.

Anyone else wanna say anything?

- B.

[bloodrayne]

I'll just keep this pithy and logical...

Weed > Alcohol.......For SOOO many reasons, but mainly for health, behavioral and safety reasons

[The_Return]

Originally posted by Cheeba V2.0
(trust me, when I'm drunk, I'm one big, angry, almost unstoppable motherfucker)

CHEEB SMASH!!



Originally posted by BoneSaw
weed is all natural, you pick it, dry it, smoke it.

Just like a banana!




Originally posted by urgeok


alcohol has a high chance of doing the jekyll n hyde dance with most people


Like David Hasslehoff! (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0279887/)


Sorry, Im just in a random mood, lol

[FairyKorpes]

I made the mistake of watching Jeepers Creepers with my ex, high on pot. Well fuck i was scared shittless. I was so involved in it freaked the fuck out, and he just grabbing me a going boo. I almost pissed myself prior to beating the fuck out of him.

But i go for pot although i don't do either regularly:mad:

[zwoti]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/zwoti/legalize.gif

[Vodstok]

I dojnt care for weed at all. Makes me sick, i hate the smell, and i enjoy getting asn alchohol buzz far more. That said, i 90% enjoy alchohol for the flavor. Getting smashed is a nice side effect that i generally avoid.

Being that i am 98% squeeky clean (for mosty of my life), i dont care if weed would make my penis 3 inches longer (like it needs to be, har-har) and give me bionic powers, it's illegal so i wont touch it. Add to this myt wife is a criminal justice major and wants to be a cop, i wouldnt and couldnt try it again if i wanted to.

I think fluff and i might be on the same page for this one.

Last, but certainly not least, pot doesnt come in these cool-ass bottles:
http://www.posterservice.com/bigpics/3577.jpg

[bloodrayne]

LOL...I don't indulge in ANY drugs...Unless you count the occasional Jack Daniels at the club...But, I still have an opinion on the matter............Don't you guys just HATE when someone "doesn't know a fucking thing about it but just HAS to have something to say about it anyway"?...lol...My previous post on this matter is still correct, though;)

[Vodstok]

A quote from southpark:

"Having never done drugs, i can tell you with certainty that they have absolutely nothing to offer."

I am generally against drug use (seen too many people with horribly fucked up lives as a result), but i tell you what, Percocet is a wonderful, wonderful thing. I would say the same thing about demerol, but i was hooked up to the IV for .00000000003 seconds before i was out cold.

[Cheeba V2.0]

Vod, I agree with your choice...I mean, you gotta prioritise right?
If I were in the same situation, I'd be right with ya.

I enjoy a beer here and there to, and have to admit, there's times I still hang with my drinking buds and knock back a few, yknow...not nearly as often as I used to.
Other than that, it's the occasional red wine with dinner, for the whole alleged antioxidant bit...
As for semi-regular use, I just look at which one's personally done me more damage...so yeah, unfairly illegal as it may be, I gotta go with the occasional weed rather than drink.

FK, I have to admit that one time I was too friggin' stoned to watch idol hands...can't believe it, how fuckin' shameful...

- B

[urgeok]

one of the beautiful things about being an older guy is that you get to see the benefits of both drugs and alcohol via friends, family, and aquaintences.

I have never smoked a cigarette .. i've never taken any form of non prescription drug.

I drank a bit when i was a kid .. but as i got older the reality of losing a valuable day on the weekend with a shitty hangover lost its appeal. I hardly drink a damn thing now since my kid was born .. i dont know if i have more than 1 or 2 a month.
If i go out and its appropriate i might have 1 or 2 beer or caesars (something you poor americans havent heard of .. its the drink of the gods)

but although i understand the attraction of a slight happy buzz .. i am a fast drinker and by the time that little buzz comes (if at all) i have already lined up a great deal of alcohol waiting to enter my blood stream .. and i'll end up sleepy - with a headache.

I guess thats my true nature ...a tired guy (re my earlier post)

I dont knock alcohol .. i knock the people who use it to excess that cant handle it.

I'm completely with Vod on the legality issue ..
if i smoked .. i wouldnt think anything about smoking weed .. if it was legal.
Why it isnt legal i dont know since tobacco is .. which is insanely addictive.

therein lies the confusion .. the inconsistency of government and law.

if you are going to make weed illegal then cigarettes and alcohol should be too.

man that was a long note .. i need a drink .... bartender !

[wufong]

Originally posted by Vodstok
touch it. Add to this myt wife is a criminal justice major and wants to be a cop, i wouldnt and couldnt try it again if i wanted to.
[/IMG]
o ya. that'll stop ya alright, cause we all know how cops never condone the use of mara.:rolleyes: im sooooooooooooooo jk.
but on a serious note. what cheeba said about people not driving while effected by the drug isn't quite correct. and its just as dangerous to smoke and drive as it is to drink and drive. just like drunks, stoners will always say and think that being under the influence doesn't effect their ability to drive. i don't know the exact number. but i think the number of car crashes amongst people under the age of 30 have been involved about 60-70% of them had drugs in their system.

[Vodstok]

You are correct there, wufong. ANYTHING that inhibits your concentration or motor skills is dangerous. try having 3 or 4 cigarrettes on an empty stomach. the nicotene goes straight to your brain and makes you woozy.

In Cheeba's defence, though, he said that smoking weed makes you unmotivated to drive in the first place.

[urgeok]

its hard to drive with a pizza in one hand a bag of cheezies in the other and a stack of 'b' horror movies on your lap :)

[bloodrayne]

Originally posted by urgeok
its hard to drive with a pizza in one hand a bag of cheezies in the other and a stack of 'b' horror movies on your lap :) Ohhh...It's not as hard as you might think......... :p

[bwind22]

"God gave you all seed-bearing plants to use."

^^^ That's in the Bible. Also, it common knowledge that our the founders of America farmed hemp. As a matter of fact, the U.S. Constitution is written on hemp. So how, you may ask, did it come to be illegal? Well, well, well... Lucky for you, here comes bwind22 to shed some light.

Ever heard of the movie 'Reefer Madness'? Well, it happens to be the most popular in a wide variety of anti-marijuana propaganda films released to the public in the 1930s. You see, hemp is a more effective form of paper production than trees. That presented a problem for many lumberbarons (Like William Randolph Hearst) and, potentially, threatened their wealth. Lucky for them, they had friends in high places. They called in a few favors and the next thing you know, we have propganda movies like the aforementioned 'Reefer Madness' portraying users of marijuana becoming suddenly unable to control their lust or sporatically plunging through an 8 story window to their death. The rest is history and here we are...

That last paragraph is exactly how and why marijuana is illegal in the USA.

That being said, I've smoked weed pretty consistently for the past nine year. :D

[Vodstok]

bwind... the voice of pro-weed conspiracy theorists.

Not all hemp has THC in it. And our founding fathers werent exactly the most reputable, idealic people we once thought.

[wufong]

Originally posted by bwind22
"God gave you all seed-bearing plants to use."

^^^ That's in the Bible. Also, it common knowledge that our the founders of America farmed hemp. As a matter of fact, the U.S. Constitution is written on hemp. So how, you may ask, did it come to be illegal? Well, well, well... Lucky for you, here comes bwind22 to shed some light.

Ever heard of the movie 'Reefer Madness'? Well, it happens to be the most popular in a wide variety of anti-marijuana propaganda films released to the public in the 1930s. You see, hemp is a more effective form of paper production than trees. That presented a problem for many lumberbarons (Like William Randolph Hearst) and, potentially, threatened their wealth. Lucky for them, they had friends in high places. They called in a few favors and the next thing you know, we have propganda movies like the aforementioned 'Reefer Madness' portraying users of marijuana becoming suddenly unable to control their lust or sporatically plunging through an 8 story window to their death. The rest is history and here we are...

That last paragraph is exactly how and why marijuana is illegal in the USA.

That being said, I've smoked weed pretty consistently for the past nine year. :D
yup hemp is a fantastic plant. and not just for smoking. the tasmainian goverment here has just allowed trials on this generic engineered plant. to be used for paper ropes ,clotheing. or w/e. the only diff between this plant and a regular plant is that you would have to about a acre of the stuff to just geta slight buzz. in fact they said you'll be dead from smoke inhalanation before ya could get buzz.

[newb]

I think most of you know which one I would pick.
http://www.wagnerur.hu/itallap/pia21/thumb/t_img-beer.jpg


I tried the maryjane when I was younger and didn't like the paranoid feeling I would get.

Of course growing up with a cop for a dad may have had some bearing on my choice of substance.

[bwind22]

Originally posted by newb
I think most of you know which one I would pick.
http://www.wagnerur.hu/itallap/pia21/thumb/t_img-beer.jpg


I tried the maryjane when I was younger and didn't like the paranoid feeling I would get.

Of course growing up with a cop for a dad may have had some bearing on my choice of substance.


But... but... but... You're Budman! :eek:

I thought for sure you were a toker! :)

[urgeok]

wrong bud, mon :)

[bloodrayne]

Originally posted by bwind22
But... but... but... You're Budman! :eek:

I thought for sure you were a toker! :) Oh Great...Thanks, Bwind..Now I've got that song stuck in my head.....





...a joker....a midnight toker....





lol





Dammit....

[tachii]

i actually prefer to be droned (drunk and stoned). absolutely cannot stand the smell of ciggs so never went near that crap, i've actaually gone through two pipes (one i broke, another a friend broke) and am on my third. i've learned to keep back ups

[bwind22]

There is no logical, non-conspiracy way of explaining why alcohol is legal and pot is not. A pothead is not going to slam into you head on going 95 with no headlights on a freeway. Drunks can and do, all the time.

Gateway drug, my ass! I guarantee most pot smokers had a puff of a cigarette before they had a puff of weed. Why isn't tobacco the gateway drug? It's all about money.

Take 1 look the number of fatalities attributed to each substance each year and I think the numbers will speak for themselves...

There is no fucking way that marijuana is anywhere near as dangerous for the user (and those around them) as alcohol.

If anyone can show me one single piece of evidence to contradict that, I'll gladly eat my words, but until then I have to say that alcohol has no place being legal in a society that bans marijuana. It's fucking ridiculous!


Legalize the herb!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/zwoti/legalize.gif

(Thanks Zwoti!)

[allmykids]

Originally posted by Vodstok
A quote from southpark:

"Having never done drugs, i can tell you with certainty that they have absolutely nothing to offer."

I am generally against drug use (seen too many people with horribly fucked up lives as a result), but i tell you what, Percocet is a wonderful, wonderful thing. I would say the same thing about demerol, but i was hooked up to the IV for .00000000003 seconds before i was out cold.

Alcohol is for sure worse than weed!! Now let's talk about Percocet, demerol and all that great candy!! I will probably be sorry for telling you guys this but here goes.........I have a major problem with pain pills. I have had alot of surgerys like 30 something. It snuck up on me. hell it's legal or so you lie to your self and say i need this and at first you do. then one day you wake up and find you can't stop. I have been fighting this for 20 years . I have had it under control off and on. but I am loseing the battle. It has ripped my life apart more than once. I am clean right now but god it's fucking hard. I think about and when i sleep i dream about it!! half of me wants it so bad and the other half knows it WILL be the death of me.
well for the people that did like me i guess i just lost alot of you by telling on myself. I'll shut up now I'm starting to ramble!!

[bwind22]

I never had a problem with you and now I like you even more. Pass the Vicodin.

[allmykids]

Originally posted by bwind22
I never had a problem with you and now I like you even more. Pass the Vicodin.

And there's the problem in a nutshell. It feels so fucking good.
The worst thing is my oldman has 120 Vicodin the 10 mil. kind. so it is in my face.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by allmykids
Alcohol is for sure worse than weed!! Now let's talk about Percocet, demerol and all that great candy!! I will probably be sorry for telling you guys this but here goes.........I have a major problem with pain pills. I have had alot of surgerys like 30 something. It snuck up on me. hell it's legal or so you lie to your self and say i need this and at first you do. then one day you wake up and find you can't stop. I have been fighting this for 20 years . I have had it under control off and on. but I am loseing the battle. It has ripped my life apart more than once. I am clean right now but god it's fucking hard. I think about and when i sleep i dream about it!! half of me wants it so bad and the other half knows it WILL be the death of me.
well for the people that did like me i guess i just lost alot of you by telling on myself. I'll shut up now I'm starting to ramble!!

i'd like to think that the folks here are understanding enough to reserve judgement on something that is a very common problem.
ask several sports pros ....

[Vodstok]

Ever listen to "Mother's Little Helper" by the Rolling Stones?

Sorry, its topical.

[EXTR3MIST]

Hey, mix both together in the same session for fun, fun, fun!

[ShankS]

Alcohol and weed can be as bad as each other, but what allows them to be bad, is the weakness in humans which allows themself to be consumed by the 'drug' and to push limits to excess.

This debate shouldnt be about which one is chemicaly worse or more chemicaly dangerous than the other, but how people have made these 'drugs' dangerous.

Alchohol and weed, both contain natural elements found or grown naturaly in the environment.... hemp and hops. They were not geneticaly produced to create the byproduct, they grew as natural plants.

Then along came human intervention, be it Monks, hundreds of years ago, who first discovered the process to make alcohol and its intoxicating effects, and the people who discovered, that burning processed hemp plant leaves would produce intoxicating fumes given off, when the oils in the leaves were heated. It was all about discovery, and how things could be modified and produced, to highten pleasure.

It wasnt until the past few years, that these 'drugs' have been taken more seriously by the medical profession. Studies and Lab results have shown that both alcohol and weed contain elements that are beneficial to health. But these benefits, just like the benefits you can receive from all the other health food stuffs, will only be any good, if they are taken in a controlled way.

We lack this control in life, and decide to use alcohol and weed or both to feed our own desires for pleasure, and more often than not, this craving for pleasure leads excessive use.... the weakness in ourselves produces the 'danger' in these substances, and not the natural substances in the 'drugs' being dangerous.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by ShankS
Alcohol and weed can be as bad as each other, but what allows them to be bad, is the weakness in humans which allows themself to be consumed by the 'drug' and to push limits to excess.

This debate shouldnt be about which one is chemicaly worse or more chemicaly dangerous than the other, but how people have made these 'drugs' dangerous.

Alchohol and weed, both contain natural elements found or grown naturaly in the environment.... hemp and hops. They were not geneticaly produced to create the byproduct, they grew as natural plants.

Then along came human intervention, be it Monks, hundreds of years ago, who first discovered the process to make alcohol and its intoxicating effects, and the people who discovered, that burning processed hemp plant leaves would produce intoxicating fumes given off, when the oils in the leaves were heated. It was all about discovery, and how things could be modified and produced, to highten pleasure.

It wasnt until the past few years, that these 'drugs' have been taken more seriously by the medical profession. Studies and Lab results have shown that both alcohol and weed contain elements that are beneficial to health. But these benefits, just like the benefits you can receive from all the other health food stuffs, will only be any good, if they are taken in a controlled way.

We lack this control in life, and decide to use alcohol and weed or both to feed our own desires for pleasure, and more often than not, this craving for pleasure leads excessive use.... the weakness in ourselves produces the 'danger' in these substances, and not the natural substances in the 'drugs' being dangerous.


thats what i was touching on earlier .. the human element ..
whatever it is in each particular person that triggers the good or bad response.

it applies to anything really ...
a hammer is used to create things .. was designed for that.
put it in the hands of an idiot and it becomes a weapon.

no difference with religion, the written word, or booze and drugs..

[Vodstok]

Or spaghetti.

[bwind22]

Shanks and urgeok, I see the points that you are trying to make... That too much of anything is not good. It's not good to use anything in excess... And I agree with that, but how can you say weed is as dangerous as beer?


How many people die each year from smoking themselves to death from too much marijuana?

How many people die a year from drinking too much alcohol?

How many people die each year being hit by a stoned driver?

How many people die each year being hit by a drunk driver?

And just for the sake of argument, how many people die each year because of smoking cigarettes?

Think about it. Marijuana is far and away the least physically harmful to society. That can't really be argued. The absolute worst thing that happens if someone gets too ridiculously high is that they might get the spins and/or puke. A half hour later they are tired, and that's pretty much it.

Now think about the worst case scenario for a night out drinking... I mean, come on...

How can anyone say with a straight face that weed is just as harmful to society as alcohol (or even cigarettes?)

[Vodstok]

Why not ask the government to legalise it?

[Kemal]

I don't mess with either, but I think that as a matter of personal liberty, marijuana should be legal.

The history of why certain drugs became illegal in the U.S. is long and tortured. It happened over a period of several decades. There was a time when products containing cocaine and opium were sold over the counter. They were sold as cures for a variety of ailments. During the progressive era of the early 20th century drugs became more regulated, first at the state level, then at the federal level. At first it was more about "truth in advertising" - forcing companies to label the ingredients of their products and that sort of thing. There was a time when you could still these drugs with a doctor's prescription.

During the 1910's and 20's various laws effectively outlawed cocaine and opiates(heroin, etc.). Racism against blacks and hispanics played a role in the passage of these laws.

And everyone knows about prohibition, of course. Note that alcohol prohibition (1919-1933) in the US required a constitutional amendment. There is no similar constitutional amendment authorizing the government to prohibit drugs like marijuana. It's all justified under the government's power to tax and the power to regulate interstate commerce. The first federal anti-marijuana law was the Marijuana Tax Act passed in 1937. It didn't outlaw marijuana per se, because you could technically possess it if you paid the government a special tax for a permit. But the government simply didn't issue any permits. (I think some clever dealer actually had one issued to him once somehow, but I don't remember the story.)

The other authority comes from the interstate commerce power. According to the government, damn near everything affects interstate commerce these days. In the medical marijuana case before the court now one of the issues is: does the government's power to regulate interstate commerce extend to people who grow marijuana for personal use, if the marijuana doesn't move interstate and isn't sold? The government's lawyers argue yes, because the production of marijuana increases demand, and that will lead in interstate commerce in marijuana. Personally I think the prosecutors in this case are full of shit and they should be out locking up terrorists, not sick people.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by bwind22
Shanks and urgeok, I see the points that you are trying to make... That too much of anything is not good. It's not good to use anything in excess... And I agree with that, but how can you say weed is as dangerous as beer?


How many people die each year from smoking themselves to death from too much marijuana?

How many people die a year from drinking too much alcohol?

How many people die each year being hit by a stoned driver?

How many people die each year being hit by a drunk driver?

And just for the sake of argument, how many people die each year because of smoking cigarettes?

Think about it. Marijuana is far and away the least physically harmful to society. That can't really be argued. The absolute worst thing that happens if someone gets too ridiculously high is that they might get the spins and/or puke. A half hour later they are tired, and that's pretty much it.

Now think about the worst case scenario for a night out drinking... I mean, come on...

How can anyone say with a straight face that weed is just as harmful to society as alcohol (or even cigarettes?)


actually i've been saying from the beginning that the negative social ramifications caused by alcohol is far greater than weed ..
I dont smoke it - nor will i (legal or not) but i definately think it should be legal.

many people can handle alcohol .. but many people cannot .. and it hurts the community.
If weed became legal and widely used we might find out that some people cant handle it but i think that would be by far the minority and the negative aspects wouldnt be the same or as dire as alcoholism. (i may be wrong but i dont think so)

[urgeok]

Originally posted by Kemal


During the 1910's and 20's various laws effectively outlawed cocaine and opiates(heroin, etc.). Racism against blacks and hispanics played a role in the passage of these laws.



curious about this part .. what is the tie in here ?

(i dont know the history and you certainly seem to ...)

[Cheeba V2.0]

BWind...You consistantly make good, well thought out points. (glad you're on this side :D )
It's funny, the majority in here seem to be all for legalisation. What's the "average" over in the US...how do the majority view the marijuana thang?
As for whoever said alcohol and tobacco being legal was all about the money, I couldn't agree more...
I guess the current laws show how harmful and addictive both tobacco and alcohol really are...it must be a pretty bad problem among a lot of people if laws actually protect the sale and consumption of these products, there are SO many issues that simply get overlooked.
I simply cannot see how growing and smoking your own could possibly do harm enough to have been outlawed, by comparison to the drugs that are still legally sold despite the various forms of damage they do, or AT ALL for that matter.
I'm not saying that I think alcohol should be banned by any means, (although moderation seems to be more of a problem for the drinkers I've known) just that I find it more than a little unfair how unbalanced these laws seem...it's like saying that assault with a deadly weapon is ok, but armed robbery will get your ass grilled.
Doesn't make all that much sense to me...

[ShankS]

You guys seam to be overlooking that actual damaging effects that cannabis / weed has on the body, particularly the lungs and nervous system.

As I said in my other post, about the beneficial effects from both alcohol and weed in small quantities, but these are completly outwayed by the negative and damaging effects when taken everyday or on a regular basis. These Uk medical study results, which I've been searching for on-line, have shown that .....(dont quote me on this)...... smoking a single joint does as much harm to the lungs as smoking 3 or 4 cigarettes in sucession... now tell me that aint damaging.

You'll also find that excessive use, which can be smoking just several joints a day, does have long term effects, not only on respiratory, but circulation, and mental health problems.

Alcohol will cause most of the above sysmptoms, except lung disease. However, it will take a lot longer and far greater abuse to the body before the physical damage is apparant, i.e. liver sclerosis takes many many years to have effects since the liver and other organs that deal with processing alcohol are far stonger than the Lungs. Lung Disease is one of the biggest killers world wide.... far greater than traffic accidents caused by intoxication through weed or alcohol use.

I drink in moderation now, far less than I used to, since going thorugh some rough patches. I also smoked weed pretty much every day a long time ago, and from experience I can tell you the weed affected me mental far greater than alcohol..... take into account though, all people are affected differently, but inevitably face the concequences of abuse.

[urgeok]

thats why i've never smoked anything ..

[wufong]

Originally posted by Kemal



During the 1910's and 20's various laws effectively outlawed cocaine and opiates(heroin, etc.). Racism against blacks and hispanics played a role in the passage of these laws.

coca cola/ coke wasn't called that because it sound neat. LOL

[Gothic-chick]

Each year in the United states the FACTS are.....



Alcohol kills about 80,000 Marijuana kills 0.

Personally I think in moderation Booze and pot are both ways to escape or enhance any situation.

But in the hands of an addict, booze ruins lives and pot makes you unmotivated.

I've witnessed both of the scenarios and I have to say if I had to choose between having an alcoholic or a pothead in my life I'll take the pothead any day!


Hell, I'd take 2 or 3 potheads over an alcoholic!

[bloodrayne]

Originally posted by Gothic-chick
Hell, I'd take 2 or 3 potheads over an alcoholic! I DEFINITELY agree!

[urgeok]

weeeeeeeell

there is only one arguement against that ...


girls gone wild.

drunk girls are more fun than stoned girls.

but drunk guys are far worse than stoned guys.

and there is one of the greatest mysteries of the universe,
and one of the only true differences between the sexes.
(that and how we buy shoes)

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by bloodrayne
I DEFINITELY agree!

no doubt,

alcoholics are selfish whiney assholes and potheads are for the most part just goofy and hungry!

[ShankS]

Originally posted by Gothic-chick
Each year in the United states the FACTS are.....



Alcohol kills about 80,000 Marijuana kills 0.

Personally I think in moderation Booze and pot are both ways to escape or enhance any situation.

But in the hands of an addict, booze ruins lives and pot makes you unmotivated.

I've witnessed both of the scenarios and I have to say if I had to choose between having an alcoholic or a pothead in my life I'll take the pothead any day!


Hell, I'd take 2 or 3 potheads over an alcoholic!

I agree, and have not dissagred that alocohol does kill many thousands of people each year. As for saying weed kills '0' people each year, I think you'll find that figure completely wrong and missleading.

With alcohol abuse, the syptoms and damaging effects are far more apparant... the damage that alocohol does to the body can be seen, be it looking unhealthy, bad mood swings and being socialy unaceptable. What you see with marijuana abuse is not apparant. It is far more difficult to see that someone is abusing their body and causing damage, simply because the only long term apparant effects are not visible, i.e. lung and respiratory damage.

Now, going back to the above point. The figures for Yearly death results, due to alcohol and marijuana never take into account long term abuse, they only show year on year figures. What you will find though, is the weed 'death' figure should actually be much higher than it is, due to this fact, that the long term lung disease it causes is far less apparant. People who are dying today from lung disease include a large proportion of people who smoked weed during the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s right upto this more recent decade...this is long term disease, something of which is continuing but goes unnoticed by the general public , unless made aware. This is also the reason why the figures for weed smoking deaths is so missleading. Government figures do not and never take this fact into account, because all Government lung disease figures are put down as smoking cigarettes or polution related.

So how many people die each year from Lung disease, due to smoking cigarettes and weed in combination, from previous years long term abuse.......I dont know a figure off hand, but I can assure you it is far greater than those that die of alcohol abuse. Why do you think that politicians world wide are now lobbying Governments to take these figures more seriously, because they now recognise that all types of smoked substances have always been the major factor in long term unaccountable lung disease figures, and always will, so long as people continue to smoke these substances. Unless change is made.

[voltron]

pot heads usede to have the excuse that no one had died from THC-but didn't someone overdose after years of smoking a while back?

[bwind22]

Originally posted by voltron
pot heads usede to have the excuse that no one had died from THC-but didn't someone overdose after years of smoking a while back?

No. The only way it could get enough THC into your system to OD would be to inhale like a whole building full of smoke at the same time. A person's lung aren't big enough to contain that amount of smoke, there for it's not possible for a human to OD on mary jane.

[bwind22]

Originally posted by urgeok
drunk girls are more fun than stoned girls.

but drunk guys are far worse than stoned guys.

and there is one of the greatest mysteries of the universe,
and one of the only true differences between the sexes.
(that and how we buy shoes)


Hahaha. That's funny because it's absolutely holds true from my experiences.

[Cheeba V2.0]

"pot heads usede to have the excuse that no one had died from THC-but didn't someone overdose after years of smoking a while back"

Not that I'd call myself a FULL pothead or anything, but I myself don't use that "excuse", I don't think anybody had died from a THC o.d of any kind, but that's not to say that lack of moderation hasn't lead to eventual death.
Anyone who doesn't moderate to a point is an idiot. An addict. Everyday use of ANY of these substances is probably not the best idea (although red wine does have its merits).
I care about my lungs enough NOT to mix tobacco in with mine, as many people seem to...that and I'd rather it didn't taste like COMPLETE shit.

There IS a difference between an alcoholic, and a drinker - I FULLY ACKNOWLEDGE THIS.
Same as there's a difference between a toker, and a pothead.
All about moderation. I've seen people go both ways, on both substances...both can CLEARLY lead to health issues.
Still, from my point of view, it's not REALLY about the damage you do to yourself...I mean, sure, that does come into it, but those that partake are usually aware of the risks involved.
My main consideration is the damage done to those around the user.
From both personal experience, and the HUGE statistics on alcohol related injuries, crimes and deaths, more of which effect the innocent, I choose marijuana as my drug of choice out of the two.
Sure, it might kill motivation, but if it kills the motivation to go out and do something stupid or violent, I'm all for it.
I'd rather kill motivation than myself or someone else, ANY DAY.

For the record...My - - I mean "stoned" girls can get pretty damn freaky too...trust me. They might not be EASY like a drunk girl, but they sure know how to please... ;)

[Cheeba V2.0]

*BUMP*

C'mon...there's more people here than ^this^...

[Gren the cake]

just something i read in my book i thought id share

"A strong associatoin exists between substance abuse and inmate status. For example, 1 study of 400 Teas inmates found that almost 75% suffered from lifetime substance abuse or dependence disorder, ....... about 80% of inmates report using drugs at some time durin their lives, and more than 60% are regular users. About half of the inmates reportbeing either drunk, high, or both when they committed the crime that landed them in prion. Considering this backgroud, it shuold come as no surprise that more inmates die from HIV related disease than from prison violence"

theres probbaly more to it than that in another chapter. but just something interesting

[meetthecreeper]

I never ever heard of anyone going into a pot induced coma.

Nor have I ever heard of anyone getting violent and beating thier child half to death when they were stoned.

Havent smoked it in a while, sometimes I miss it. My woman needs it, so she will calm the fuck down.

Rarely do I drink, and when I do its the hard shit only.

Sometimes I like to get Jacked up til I bleed:p

[allmykids]

Originally posted by meetthecreeper
I never ever heard of anyone going into a pot induced coma.

Nor have I ever heard of anyone getting violent and beating thier child half to death when they were stoned.

Havent smoked it in a while, sometimes I miss it. My woman needs it, so she will calm the fuck down.

Rarely do I drink, and when I do its the hard shit only.

Sometimes I like to get Jacked up til I bleed:p

Jacked up till you bleed. What do you mean??

[ChEEbA]

I think it's prison slang for rough anal intercourse:p

[Sedated_replica]

Okay read this... I used to be the BIGGEST FUCKING POTHEAD ON THIS FORUM. This is all 100% true.

I used to wake up and smoke , smoke before school, during lunch, and everytime of the day.

If you could overdose from Weed I'd be the first.

The marijuana laws are fucking CRAZY!

Alcohol leads to fights, death and babies. (no, not all the time).

I've used a lot of fucking drugs. Weed is totally fine, but getting addicted it will control you like any drug. Sleeping and eating.

If you never smoke pot and your going to try it out. Just take a couple hits and depending on the weed, you'll get a good feeling.

I abuse every drug but I could give a shit because being sober fucking sucked and I'm sedated everytime I post here. :p

Fuck Alcohol it kills innocent people

[Sedated_replica]

Originally posted by Gren the cake
[B"A strong associatoin exists between substance abuse and inmate status. For example, 1 study of 400 Teas inmates found that almost 75% suffered from lifetime substance abuse or dependence disorder, ....... about 80% of inmates report using drugs at some time durin their lives, and more than 60% are regular users. About half of the inmates reportbeing either drunk, high, or both when they committed the crime that landed them in prion. Considering this backgroud, it shuold come as no surprise that more inmates die from HIV related disease than from prison violence"
[/B]

They're High because they're life sucks. Criminals aren't the same as people who use drugs. They committed Crimes because they're Criminals and don't give a fuck, not because they're high.

How many people have you heard say "I didn't know what I was doing I was drunk" FUCKING BULLSHIT! YOU KNEW!

And the Hiv isn't from always needles its from fucking nasty bitches.

That was the stupidest ignorant quote I've ever read

[FairyKorpes]

Originally posted by Sedated_replica
Okay read this... I used to be the BIGGEST FUCKING POTHEAD ON THIS FORUM. This is all 100% true.

I used to wake up and smoke , smoke before school, during lunch, and everytime of the day.

If you could overdose from Weed I'd be the first.

The marijuana laws are fucking CRAZY!

Alcohol leads to fights, death and babies. (no, not all the time).

I've used a lot of fucking drugs. Weed is totally fine, but getting addicted it will control you like any drug. Sleeping and eating.

If you never smoke pot and your going to try it out. Just take a couple hits and depending on the weed, you'll get a good feeling.

I abuse every drug but I could give a shit because being sober fucking sucked and I'm sedated everytime I post here. :p

Fuck Alcohol it kills innocent people

Hi i'm Bob and i abuse everything.

*Group replies*

HI BOBBBBB!

[Sedated_replica]

Originally posted by FairyKorpes
Hi i'm Bob and i abuse everything.

*Group replies*

HI BOBBBBB!

I never know what the fuck your replies mean.

Rehab is for quitters
your way to cool for me :cool:

[FairyKorpes]

Originally posted by Sedated_replica
I never know what the fuck your replies mean.

Rehab is for quitters
your way to cool for me :cool:

Are you serious? You never get what i'm saying...EVER? This could be a big indication to the looks i get:(


i'm more lukewarm then cool lol.

[Gren the cake]

Originally posted by Sedated_replica
They're High because they're life sucks. Criminals aren't the same as people who use drugs. They committed Crimes because they're Criminals and don't give a fuck, not because they're high.

How many people have you heard say "I didn't know what I was doing I was drunk" FUCKING BULLSHIT! YOU KNEW!

And the Hiv isn't from always needles its from fucking nasty bitches.

That was the stupidest ignorant quote I've ever read

yes.. what retards for printing this book and distributing it to academies across the nation...

[Rotting Eye]

i didn't bother reading all the other posts, so i'm just gunna post my own opinion :P

it all depends on the person. from my own perspective, weed is worse than alcohol by a long shot. of course, my opinion is biased due to the reaction i get from bud. terrible trips.. ugh.. definately bad times.

plus, anyone who says weed is healthier than alcohol hasn't done their homework. well, actually, it depends on which part of your body you want to damage. yes, alcohol does kill brain cells and yes it does damage to your liver. however, weed has a large amount of tabacco in it, which still coats the shit out of your lungs. i believe there's nicotine in bud also... i forgot the exact numbers/statistics, but smoking one joint, or one bowl, or however you do it, is equivalent to several cigarettes. i can't say that bud fucks with the chemicals in your mind to cause permanent damage, because from what i've read, it doesn't. only downside is the damage to your lungs. so what's healthier? it's a matter of opinion. besides, bud is a stimulant. raises blood pressure, heart rate.. sometimes by up to 50%. your heart only has a certain amount of times it's going to beat in your lifetime.. :P

alcohol is a depressant, no that doesn't mean it makes you depressed (i hear that a lot <_<) it means it slows down your system. no risk of heartattack, etc etc

i dunno, from experience i just happen to like alcohol much better than bud anyway

[Angelakillsluts]

Originally posted by Rotting Eye
plus, anyone who says weed is healthier than alcohol hasn't done their homework.

weed has a large amount of tabacco in it, which still coats the shit out of your lungs. i believe there's nicotine in bud also.

hmmm...

[Rotting Eye]

i hate it when i'm wrong. hmmm, well, the homework that i did said tobacco was in bud /shrug. who knows

well, irregardless of what i said, or what you look up. what it all comes down to is preferance. it's all relative.. like most things :p

[Angelakillsluts]

You are however on the right track with lung damage. Smoking a joint is more harmful to your lungs then smoking a single cigarette. Most regular cigarette smokers still do a lot more damage to their lungs than regular pot smokers though.

[ChEEbA]

Yeah...good thing tokers don't smoke like 15 JOINTS a day, eh?
At least, not on most days...

RE - Simple mistake, both tobacco and weed contain TAR.

[Angelakillsluts]

ignore...

I'd delete this, but I can't...

[ChEEbA]

;)

- I didn't really get it either...
But I think your basic point was that moderation is cool, in all cases, right?
In which case, I agree wholeheartedly.

[Rotting Eye]

THAT'S IT!! tar... something kept nagging in the back of my mind that tobacco wasn't right. so replace tobacco with tar and my post will be more or less correct heh

in any case, i agree - most things, while done in moderation, are alright. hell, i'd probably smoke bud if i didn't get bad trips, but hey, whatcha gunna do.

i'll stick to alcohol and hookahs :cool:

[ShankS]

Originally posted by Rotting Eye
i didn't bother reading all the other posts, so i'm just gunna post my own opinion :P

it all depends on the person. from my own perspective, weed is worse than alcohol by a long shot. of course, my opinion is biased due to the reaction i get from bud. terrible trips.. ugh.. definately bad times.

plus, anyone who says weed is healthier than alcohol hasn't done their homework. well, actually, it depends on which part of your body you want to damage. yes, alcohol does kill brain cells and yes it does damage to your liver. however, weed has a large amount of tabacco in it, which still coats the shit out of your lungs. i believe there's nicotine in bud also... i forgot the exact numbers/statistics, but smoking one joint, or one bowl, or however you do it, is equivalent to several cigarettes. i can't say that bud fucks with the chemicals in your mind to cause permanent damage, because from what i've read, it doesn't. only downside is the damage to your lungs. so what's healthier? it's a matter of opinion. besides, bud is a stimulant. raises blood pressure, heart rate.. sometimes by up to 50%. your heart only has a certain amount of times it's going to beat in your lifetime.. :P

alcohol is a depressant, no that doesn't mean it makes you depressed (i hear that a lot <_<) it means it slows down your system. no risk of heartattack, etc etc

i dunno, from experience i just happen to like alcohol much better than bud anyway

this is similar to what I've been saying all along .....but potheads always deny the facts....speak to an alcoholic and they no they've got a problem 100% .......alcohol addiction is different from drug addiction. Drug addiction causes denial...due to chemical inbalance in the brain....these chemicals arnt increased or present during alcohol abuse, so the symptoms are different.

[Rotting Eye]

i wouldn't say all alcoholics know they have a problem. they go through denial as well. i have a friend who downs probably a 12 pack of MGDs a day, and won't admit that he has a problem. first thing in AA meetings? "hi i'm soandso and i have an addiction." sure they can admit it then, but it always takes them a while to attend the AA meetings

i also have friends that are potheads, and know they have a problem. hell, i have one friend who's been a pothead for two years, and quit about a month ago cold turkey. as far as i know he hasn't lit up since... i mean i could be wrong, but he still knows that he has a problem. i have several friends like that actually.. friends that have been through rehab, etc etc

anyway, the subject of this thread is weed. i dunno if i'll agree that bud causes permanent chemical imbalances in the brain. while you're trippin it does, but as far as long term effects? i have my doubts. other drugs, such as coke, heroine, meth, etc etc.. those i will agree cause chemical imbalances, and fuck up your mind longterm. but as i said: this concerns weed

i still stick to my previous statement, alcohol and weed effect differently people differently, such as all drugs.

[ChEEbA]

".....but potheads always deny the facts....speak to an alcoholic and they no they've got a problem 100% "

- Cmon shanks, don't geralise...

[ShankS]

Originally posted by ChEEbA
".....but potheads always deny the facts....speak to an alcoholic and they no they've got a problem 100% "

- Cmon shanks, don't geralise...

I speak the truth... you know I do :D

[ChEEbA]

No.
I'd agree in some cases, definately for BOTH.
Not in mine.
That's not a denial, it's a factual statement.

[FairyKorpes]

Lmao @ irregardless

[Angelakillsluts]

"[Probably blend of irrespective, and regardless.]

Usage Note: Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. Coined in the United States in the early 20th century, it has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir- prefix and -less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably argue that it is no different from words with redundant affixes like debone and unravel, it has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so."

:p

[Vodstok]

Originally posted by Angelakillsluts
"[Probably blend of irrespective, and regardless.]

Usage Note: Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. Coined in the United States in the early 20th century, it has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir- prefix and -less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably argue that it is no different from words with redundant affixes like debone and unravel, it has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so."

:p THANK YOU!!!!


Irregardless is in the dictionary to say that it is improper, much like Ain't.


"What pacifically are you talking about? Expecially Irregardless of it's inflamability. It doesnt take a nukular scientist to know you can read about foilage in a libary."


God i hate the speaking ability of the average human....

[Kemal]

Originally posted by urgeok
curious about this part .. what is the tie in here ?

(i dont know the history and you certainly seem to ...)

When it came to drugs, you saw pretty blatant racism in the press accounts and statements by elected officials. Back in the early 20th century, cocaine abuse became associated with blacks, who would supposedly go on rampages under the influence. Marijuana, in turn, was associated with Mexican immigrants as well as blacks. Opium was associated with Chinese immigrants. Racial fears were used by officials and pundits who called for prohibition against all these drugs. You know - "they'll ravage our white women", that sort of thing.

[Vodstok]

And them ravaging our women is a problem, because if they are ravaging them, we drunk white guys cant rape and beat them.

Funny how that works, eh?

[bwind22]

I'm not sure where everybody's from, but here in Minnesota 'tripping' is something totally different than smoking weed and 'being high'. 'Tripping' usually involves mushrooms, acid or other hallucinogens and is a much more visceral experience. Getting high on weed is much different than that.

RE, if the weed you are smoking makes you trip, I'd ask your friend if it's some sort of hash or what it's laced with because that's not normal.

so what's healthier? it's a matter of opinion.

No, it's not. Look at the number of deaths attributed to each on the highways each year. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a no contest.

[Rotting Eye]

hmm... so is this turning into a grammar/word war then? :p i happen to like irregardless, and i'll use it if i want so nyah!

i call tripping and getting high the same thing, sorry for not being a druggie and using the proper lingo heh. no, it didn't make me trip, i didn't start hallucinating and seein shit. imagining stuff was happening? sure. most of the times i smoked i thought i had a heartattack that lasted the entire time. i was flippin out, got paranoid as shit. it's not cool.

and i knew someone was going to bring up the "well, then what you got probably wasn't good stuff" card. weed has different effects on people. accept that fact :P it wasn't laced with anything, and it wasn't hash. i smoked with three different potheads, each chronics for two years. i have a feeling they knew what they were doing.

i was saying which is healthier regarding biological function :rolleyes: not what impairs your judgment more when you're driving down the highway at 80 mph.

[Sedated_replica]

Originally posted by Kemal
When it came to drugs, you saw pretty blatant racism in the press accounts and statements by elected officials. Back in the early 20th century, cocaine abuse became associated with blacks, who would supposedly go on rampages under the influence. Marijuana, in turn, was associated with Mexican immigrants as well as blacks. Opium was associated with Chinese immigrants. Racial fears were used by officials and pundits who called for prohibition against all these drugs. You know - "they'll ravage our white women", that sort of thing.

Your absolutely right. Thats how drugs became illegal because of white fear. It still happens today about getting attacked again.
Its easier to blame other races then to blame themselves.

They're called Republicans, people scared of change.

And yes, I'm white

[Sedated_replica]

Originally posted by Rotting Eye
most of the times i smoked i thought i had a heartattack that lasted the entire time. i was flippin out, got paranoid as shit.

You have anxiety or panic attacks. You just can't smoke weed because the chemical it realeases in your brain. Thats why I had to quit.

[Sedated_replica]

Originally posted by Gren the cake
yes.. what retards for printing this book and distributing it to academies across the nation...

Yes and retards that believe the shit.

[Sedated_replica]

Originally posted by FairyKorpes
i'm more lukewarm then cool lol.

You see.. What the fuck is lukewarm? never can understand

[Rotting Eye]

i wouldn't say drugs became illegal because of white fear. there's a reason why drugs are illegal in most everywhere else in the world, places that aren't inhabited by a majority of white folk :rolleyes:

besides, even if drugs were legal, i'm sure they would be illegal sometime or another

and don't get me wrong here, i think drugs should be legalized. i don't think crime, murder, rape, etc etc would go up significantly. what people want to do to themselves is up to them, i couldn't really care. as long as you're not hurting me, or anyone else, i'm fine with it

and i'll agree that republicans don't like change.. i'm pretty liberal, don't like religion, don't like republicans :P

and i know i have panic attacks, it sucks ass. every time i've smoked it happens. another thing i have is acid reflux, which happens every once in a while, but smoking bud induces it. i can feel my stomach and those muscles down there spasming, but when high i think it's my heart spasming and not my stomach muscles.. which is bad... cuz my chest hurts for several days after the fact, and i know it's from acid eating the shit out of my esophagus. bad times

[FairyKorpes]

Originally posted by Sedated_replica
You see.. What the fuck is lukewarm? never can understand

It's not hot it's not cold. It's in the middle.

[ShankS]

whants not hot, I thnk a pussy is hot in het middle but it gets cold if it's dont get enough frition.

[FairyKorpes]

Who highlighted my irregardless lol.

The only people that use it are on Jerry Springer or who are just trying to sound smart, not realizing if they thought about it A) it's not a real word B) it means the same fucking thing.

Don't be thinking i use that word damnit.

[ChEEbA]

Murder murder murder murder
ya never heard-a
redrum in reverse?
bodies in the hearse,
Now ur lifes gona cos' we wanted you to die
time to kis your ass goodbye, dont ask why...

[bwind22]

Originally posted by Rotting Eye
i was saying which is healthier regarding biological function :rolleyes: not what impairs your judgment more when you're driving down the highway at 80 mph.

I was saying which is healthier to the overall existence of the user and those around them.

[urgeok]

the one thing i cant get my head around in deliberately inhaling smoke.

There is a filtration system in your body that is designed to prevent crap from getting into your lungs which are crucial and fairly delicate.

Smoke is the worst kind of garbage you could inhale so with smoking not only is it inhaled .. it's voluntarily forced there.

Eventually the small walls of the lungs get coated, rotted, and the surface area for oxygen to blood transfer is reduced leaving you in poor health.
Not everyone is effected the same way or at the same speed but its pretty simple science.

Alcohol is a form of poison (like chocolate :)
Some areas of expertise say that in moderation, it can be benifical. I don't know the facts to back that one up.

The real problem is twofold.

Smoke of any kind is pretty obviously a bad thing to do to your lungs.
Excess of smoke is as bad as excess of anything else . if you hava an addictive personality and cant afford it, then it can have a social impact as well.

Alcohol in moderation isnt a big deal but if its abused it has more immediate ramifications, socially and healthwise.

Bottom line is that both have negatives .. no denying that.
Both have positives.

For me the negatives outweigh the positives re. smoking
I'm not an alcoholic so i dont have any health or social problems taking a couple of drinks a month.

Should pot be legal ?
Absolutely - as long as cigarettes and alcohol are legal there is no logical reason why it shouldnt be.

[Vodstok]

urge, you and your "logic".


Get your ass and your sense making the hellout of here. I want to stay in ignorant limbo where my beliefs are the only ones, and everyone els eis the enemy.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by Vodstok
urge, you and your "logic".


Get your ass and your sense making the hellout of here. I want to stay in ignorant limbo where my beliefs are the only ones, and everyone els eis the enemy.


'I'm Godzilla, and You're Tokeo, mutha-fuka !)


hehehehehehehehehe :)

[Sedated_replica]

Originally posted by urgeok
the one thing i cant get my head around in deliberately inhaling smoke.


Whats not to understand? Getting High makes you feel better. People depressed or bored. Don't really give a shit about they're health. A Body grows unhealthly just with age. And getting old is fucking depressing to me,

So why not get High and feel good in the moment?
But if you feel good as it is than just be grateful you don't have a shitty life.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by Sedated_replica
Whats not to understand? Getting High makes you feel better. People depressed or bored. Don't really give a shit about they're health. A Body grows unhealthly just with age. And getting old is fucking depressing to me,

So why not get High and feel good in the moment?
But if you feel good as it is than just be grateful you don't have a shitty life.

i didnt say i wouldnt eat the brownies :)

seriously .. when you hit my age you start seeing the evidence of what the prolonged effects of smoke can have on the body. ..
when you see someone coughing up black lung tissue to begin each day ... then they start thinking about the health thing and wishing they had of given a shit 15 - 20 years earlier.

I had a shitty life by the way - until i was mid 20s or so .. but its good now.
I'm a poster child for 'things can get better'
and yes .. i'm grateful of it ... but it could easily have gone the other way .. part luck, part tenacity.

[ChEEbA]

Yknow, I didn't expect this thread would hit so many ppl...I had no idea it would be under discussion for so long.

I thanks everyone to post their thoughts thus far. It's been interesting, and informative....
Please, continue as you will - I'm content to sit and watch for now.

[Sedated_replica]

Originally posted by urgeok

when you see someone coughing up black lung tissue to begin each day ...

I just turned 20 and I've smoked for 4 years striaght. This is my first year clean from smoking.

I cough up black shit every morning. But I think its better out than in. :D

But seriously, it sucks. Drugs have already tooken there toll on me. Hopefully I can recover. I'm still young.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by Sedated_replica
I just turned 20 and I've smoked for 4 years striaght. This is my first year clean from smoking.

I cough up black shit every morning. But I think its better out than in. :D

But seriously, it sucks. Drugs have already tooken there toll on me. Hopefully I can recover. I'm still young.

absolutely .. at your age your lung tissue will heal...

[insane78]

Cheeba, I agree with you and you're absolutely right on all your points on why weed is better. Also, think about this: I recently saw something on the History Channel about weed and they said it was made illegal not cause it was bad for you, because of immigration. Supposedly Mexicans were coming in and taking american jobs and I guess maybe making more than the average american at the time, so the goverment trumped up some phony myths and stereotypes about mexicans to get them and their weed out of the country. I guarantee you if weed were made legal in this country, it would outsell alcohol 10 times out of 10. Hell, my own grandmother said if she had to choose, she'd rather see someone smoke a joint than drink a beer. So light up!

[cheebacheeba]

It's funny how your perspective changes...since this time, I've found the initiative that just wasn't there to do something real with my life...was it that I smoked weed that kept me from doing this? I'll never know.
I mean, that would be the assumption, yeah, but...I still made the conscious decision to start my studies and do something I'd always thought about, also the conscious decision to cut right the hell down on the weed, and reach the stage where I've all but stopped now. However, I WAS able to make this decision while still smoking relatively regularly. But then again, I'd probably have made this decision so much quicker without it.

My "weed vs alcohol" opinions still stand in regards on my thoughts that regular alcohol useage seems more harmful...

HOWEVER, from my current viewpoint, in hindsight, thinking about where my life is now, compared to where it was then...I actually have people seeking me out for work now, have more expendable cash, I'm thinking much further ahead, working, learning...I'm busier and I guess therefore not finding myself at the same loose end I used to when I was smoking regularly...what came first, the smoking or the loose ends? Well, maybe if I hadn't smoked so much I'd remember.
So yeah, I think weed as a recreational thing here and there, AND alcohol for that matter is all good, well not ALL good, but health risks aside - moderation is still the key. I think it's when these things become or are habitual, it's time to examine the situation, maybe take a few weeks off and see if your head clears enough to formulate a completely unclouded and unbiased opinion. I know now, that this is what I did, and needed to do to make a real move into well, reality.
I'll still have a tequila night here and there, I'll get rowdy and blaze up...and yknow what? it's not only healthier, but much more fun when you're not doing it every other day.
One important thing...
Boredom is a pitiful excuse. I know this, becuase that's the same one I used to fall back on to try and justify what I was doing, to myself. Again, if you drink, smoke, or do anything that alters your mental state habitually or on a regular basis...step off for a few weeks, and clear your head.

PS - Whoever with their fake name decided to drag up this thread, it's pretty obvious. However, thankyou. It gave me a chance to ponder, and reflect.

- B

[Posher778]

How about neither. I refuse to throw my life out the window. However, (when i'm at age), I might be a social drinker, but only occasionally.

[SKOOFx]

.......................

[Posher778]

That's coming from the viewpoint of a smoker.

[cheebacheeba]

Just as your views are from a non-smoker...so?
Lets not get into "I'm right and you're wrong" mode, we've managed to keep the thread away from that so far.
I like ideas on both sides...both have validities. So, if you wanna discuss, discuss. No point being judgemental or anything...

[Posher778]

Originally posted by cheebacheeba
Just as your views are from a non-smoker...so?
Lets not get into "I'm right and you're wrong" mode, we've managed to keep the thread away from that so far.
I like ideas on both sides...both have validities. So, if you wanna discuss, discuss. No point being judgemental or anything...

Yes, I am a nonsmoker, so my view does come from that, I was just pointing it out that it ALWAYS seems like smokers think everyone's against them while nonsmokers think that smokers are all wrong. I don't really care either way as long as no one breathes smoke in my face.

[SKOOFx]

.........................

[Posher778]

Well, i'm going to stick to my side that all illegal drugs are bad, but I understand what you're saying completely.


All except the kinds that doctors can give such as morphine.

[pinkfloyd45769]

I've never been into pot really. The smell makes me sick and i always went to sleep instead of having any fun. I would go for a drink any day,in about 5 months i'll have one again!! I don't say anything bad about people who choose to smoke pot, it's not for me to say shit. I used to love pain killers and alot of people disagree with that. I say have fun while you can, life is waaaayyy to short to judge!!:D

[SKOOFx]

.......................

[ItsAlive75]

Two completely different kinds of fun with booze and weed. I prefer weed on weekdays, cuz I don't like to move around that much... but on weekends I gotz to git fonky wit da likka.

[PR3SSUR3]

If you absolutely must play alcohol and cannabis off against one another, it should be noted nobody has ever officially died from cannabis abuse.

However, more people die directly from smoking than from alcohol - and tobacco is often an integral part of inhaling cannabis.

If it is smoked on its own, it leaves the harmful psychotic effects of long term use. Scientists are certain cannabis can serve as a trigger of latent schizophrenia, a possibility that seems highly likely to anyone who has ever experienced disorientation, confusion and paranoia after smoking a joint - i.e. everyone.

There is a large defensive crowd of dope-takers, and it is often applauded as a safer alternative to alcohol - that it is a peaceful, sociable drug as opposed to the violence and anti-social behaviour attributed to hard drinkers.

Cannabis is generally illegal because the consequences of its use lead to a more damaged society than with alcohol, not because of taxation.

I doubt many constant heavy users have ever reached professional and respected heights through the lethargic and introspective nature of the drug, and by contrast many achievers have been brought down by alcohol.

[SKOOFx]

....................

[stubbornforgey]

Hrmm...i tend to disagree..
if it smokes it floats ..if it floats ..other people inhale.
It has been proven that a person dakking it up in a room full of people..the non dakkers will always be affected..possibly come out as stoned.
There is no justification for either smokers,
or drinkers.
'note' em a tobacco smoker' so em not trying to come across holier than thou'.
The original arguement is weed vs alcohol..
Heres my theory...if it enables you to think straight or perform normally ..then its harmful.to yourself.
I personally will not sit n attempt to hold a conversation with a drinker or a dakker once they have had a few..its like talking to a newborn baby.

[The Mothman]

Easily alcohol. i think weed is kind of boring and it makes me feel like shit for some reason, and I gain a rediculous amount of weight everytime i smoke it because i cant stop eating, and it kills too much coordination, and its easy to get tested for. just a couple reasons of why i dont like it. mixed with alcohol, its great. but on its own, alcohol totally wins.

[PR3SSUR3]

Nontheless, cannabis remains illegal in most quarters, while alcohol is not.

If the drug was made legal, children would have far easier access to it and there would not be such a stigma attached to indulging in getting stoned. There should be a stigma attached to using cannabis - it is increasingly leading to psychosis in regular users.

I have doubts about there being many many successful wealthy happy healthy people who SMOKE every single day in the world (let alone ones you know), but I'm sure most pro-cannabis users will make similar claims. Try taking away their dope then, and saying "no more" - do you think they will still be happy? The detached "high" provided by the THC is an addictive altered state.

Lots of professional people consume alcohol on a daily basis, but in order to remain professional, they must restrict their units of intake. Getting stoned every night leads to respiratory and psychological trauma quicker than any liver-damaging effects of alcohol.

There is of course no right or wrong in the case of any recreational drug (Ecstasy or Acid? Speed or Cocaine?), and it is up to the user to decide his or her intake. The real problem is when it stops becoming fun (which it does, and quicker than most people think) but must continue as a habit, as a need - all the while further deteriorating health with the fun and the old buzz long gone.

[stubbornforgey]

Children as young as 10-12 are easily accessing marijuana now..
It has nothing to do with legalisation..its more to do with control.
Right now there is no legal age to buy a tinnie..even though its not right and shouldnt be done...its happening.
I live in south auckland ..NZ ..equivelant to
the bronx in the usa...
Ths is the trend we found a copycat from what they have seen on movies..
old man befreinds child..
offers child money...xboxes..clothes..drugs.
old man now turns out to be a gang prospect who tells the child that they owe big time for all the gifts..
child is sent to recruit his/her mates..hitting the schools.
We have in the past year expelled five 12 yr olds.
If govt made it legal then age restrictions can be put in place..etc...
However ..for as long as there are elders who are willing to buy alcohol/smokes for under age youths ..then we are hitting a dead end .
Now..marijuana is being laced with 'P' to get them hooked faster and on a more deadlier drug.

[Elvis_Christ]

Originally posted by stubbornforgey
Now..marijuana is being laced with 'P' to get them hooked faster and on a more deadlier drug.

That is total crap. Don't beleive eveything the news tells you. For one thing what dealer is going to waste money lacing tinnies with P? This is just media feed scaremongering.

and South Auckland is hardly like The Bronx dude.

[October]

alcohol can be fine in moderation, just as weed can be devostating when overused.
pot makes you lazy to a ridiculous degree, unfocused, uncoordinated, forgetfull, unable to remember anything new, and will eat your money as anything else would.

its really unfair to say alcohol is worse when you are thinking of an alcoholic versus an ocasional smoker. besides not everyone is violent when drunk. and you can drink and not get smashed to shit. these things really should get considered...

i really have a problem with pot because i have personally known people to get lost and throw everything away for it. it's pathetic and sad and really hurts the people who love you. its a selfish drug. (not to say that others arent....)

so really if you are going to compare, you have to be spacific about the usage quanity to be fair about both substances.

[stubbornforgey]

Originally posted by Elvis_Christ
That is total crap. Don't beleive eveything the news tells you. For one thing what dealer is going to waste money lacing tinnies with P? This is just media feed scaremongering.

and South Auckland is hardly like The Bronx dude.

how the fuck would u know elvis..??
when was the last time u came to south auckland..????????
For your information...'p' laced marijuana is
very high over here ..thats how ppl are getting addicted to the shit.
Reply to something you know about..
do a fact search before disreputing something you know nothing about..
South Auckland has been my home for many years and my group and i see it all the time !!
we have kids out here as young as 10 addicted to the crap..we are the fuckers who clean up the mess...
they now wear red and blue bandanas..they carry weapons as deadly as sawn off shotguns..
You know jack shit about it..!!Fucking research it before opening thine fat mouth .
It has nothing to do with whats broadcasted on the news..we see it on a daily basis..how the hell do you think the news got statistical fact to report it.
Fuckers like us teachers n social workers who are out there trying to save these kids from doing a repeat of the michael choy murder..
NOTE: michael choy was a pizza delivery man who was conned into making a phony delivery to a desserted house where upon he was set upon with baseball bats and a hammer..was robbed of the 20$ cash he was carrying
and the pizzas ..he managed to crawl to his fathers house 4 blocks away ..where he eventually died on the doorstep.
The kids who did it were high on 'p' and the youngest was only 12 at the time is serving a jail term of 15 years..
this all happened 2 streets away from me..(for those who dont know)

[October]

its true.
and the pot in the states (i dunno know if its still going on but a year ago it was) is being laced with heroine. heroine wasnt selling well in mexico so they'd lace the pot and export it to the states to get people hooked to boost sales.

[Spallalala]

Originally posted by October
pot makes you lazy to a ridiculous degree, unfocused, uncoordinated, forgetfull, unable to remember anything new, and will eat your money as anything else would.


Thats a load... It doesn't make everyone like that. Especially lazy. Usually when cheebs and I smoke we will roll a blunt and go for a long walk. Sometimes even have a cone or 2 and go for a bike ride.
Hell. I have been known to get off my ass and start cleaning the house haha.
It doesn't really eat my money. Just due to the fact that a small amount goes a very long way.

I know people that make weed there main priority. Its just stupid.
Here in sydney. Weed is sometimes laced. You just gotta look at it and you can tell. Big thick ass crystal looking things all over it.

Someone mentioned drinking and smoking on daily basis.. I think it was skoof in regards to knowing people who do this.
After a while you can tell the difference between a daily smoker and a daily drinker.
The drinker is usually more annoying to be around then the smoker. Well. The ones I know of anyway haha.

[PR3SSUR3]

Sounds like you're in a happy place - good for you.

October's comments are validated by science, however - just as alcohol makes you aggressive and overconfident.

Going for a bike ride on alcohol probably wouldn't be a good idea, but then again neither would going for a night out high on cannabis.

If I was to try heroin or crack, I might be able to get on with my life almost as normal at first. I might even defend it as fairly harmless - after all, none of those so-called side-effects affect me in that way... it's all under control.

If not as quick or obviously, cannabis and alcohol can both destroy lives too.

[Haunted]

I miss pot.:(

If a genie popped up right now and gave me three wishes I'd say:

1. A never ending bag of the best pot
2. The measurements 36 24 36
3. Sephiroth (You can take that in Qabalistic terms if you so desire)

That's because part of me is silly shallow and undersexed.

[Posher778]

Originally posted by Haunted
I miss pot.:(

I miss my pickle chips:o

[stubbornforgey]

For some ungodly reason..pot or alcohol did nothing for me..except make me sick..LOL.
but ironically its true..
gangs like the black power and mongrel mobs are lacing marijuana with 'p' in order to get youngsters hooked..
Obviously we researched this by sending in a dummy buyer to get a tinnie then have it tested.
The tinny house has since been shut down
in our street but has re opened in another
in another part of town...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10376102

This whats been happening on a regualr basis now in south auckland , especially.
em trying to find the other link as to what was found on them...a tinny laced with 'p'

[Spallalala]

Originally posted by PR3SSUR3
Sounds like you're in a happy place - good for you.

October's comments are validated by science, however - just as alcohol makes you aggressive and overconfident.

Going for a bike ride on alcohol probably wouldn't be a good idea, but then again neither would going for a night out high on cannabis.

If not as quick or obviously, cannabis and alcohol can both destroy lives too.

I would rather have a night out being stoned then I would when im drunk. At least I may actually pay attention to what is going on during the night and not pick fights like most drunks do(not that im a crazy drunk. Im usually the one taking care of everyone else's ass).

I have done the bike ride when drunk. Was the longest ride home but funny as hell.

I will always say that alcohol is worse. I have seen more bad things happen to people when they drink then when they have been smoking.

[monalisa]

Originally posted by Cheeba V2.0
Just thought I'd get a few peoples perspectives on the whole deal...I myself had to justify myself to a friend who drinks on a regular basis.
To me, it's just a matter of how each would effect you personally.
I'm not here to try and change anyones opinions or anything...so yeah, here's my side of things, I'll just repost my side of the convo I had earlier...

"I personally think it's a little more sensible than drinking...but that's only from my individual perspective, I don't expect anybody to have to adopt my views on the matter. The way I see it, if it's done in moderation, there shouldn't be a problem with it.
I don't drink alcohol (apart from y'know occasions n shit), or smoke tobacco...so overall my body is in better shape than the majority.
For at least myself, weed does not induce violent behaviour, and you'll be WAY less likely to be involved in a car accident.
Why? Because alcoholics seem to think it's a good idea to drink drive when they're wasted, where those that are stoned simply cannot be bothered to.
I'm kinda sick of getting judged about this, yknow?
I mean a lot of people that have worse, more self destructive, and more REGULAR habits (eg smoking and drinking) actually put shit on me, simply because of the legality issue, or using the same old "it's a gateway drug" line, yet to date, all I've tried is weed, and 'shrooms (once), and nothing manufactured.
Again, I maintain that I'm doing my body far less damage with what I do, and I'm also less of a public threat this way...dont ya think? No secondary smoke for others, no getting into fights (trust me, when I'm drunk, I'm one big, angry, almost unstoppable motherfucker), no drink driving...see, when you just THINK about it, it's pretty much better for the user, and the general public than either drinking OR smoking...
As for the legality issue, in my opinion, this was clearly a law created to benefit the drinkers.., and enforced by those that aren't prepared to meet half way. Laws aren't always fair.

So...thoughts?
Let's try to keep it mature, shall we?


One question, are you a cop?

[cheebacheeba]

Yes...I'm a cop, a marijuana cop, and my jurisdiction is worldwide.

[Spallalala]

Originally posted by monalisa
One question, are you a cop?



hahahahaha.. How many times have ya heard that cheebs?.. Always manages to make me laugh.

[monalisa]

Originally posted by Spallalala
hahahahaha.. How many times have ya heard that cheebs?.. Always manages to make me laugh.

Yep, keep laughing right up until they turn your arms in angles they don't normally turn in and tell you to stop struggling and slam the cuffs on you. Anyone who has watched one of the "cops shows" knows that. Ya think they don't go fishing online? Guess again sweetie.:cool:

[monalisa]

Originally posted by cheebacheeba
Yes...I'm a cop, a marijuana cop, and my jurisdiction is worldwide.

Then, you suck and should shove a nice tasty, smelly bud right up your ass Cheeba. Or add it to one of your sauces, whichever works best for you. ;)

[Spallalala]

Originally posted by monalisa
Yep, keep laughing right up until they turn your arms in angles they don't normally turn in and tell you to stop struggling and slam the cuffs on you. Anyone who has watched one of the "cops shows" knows that. Ya think they don't go fishing online? Guess again sweetie.:cool:

Well.. It just so happens that Im not in the USA.. We dont get treated like shit here.

But thanks for looking out for me. :rolleyes:

[Haunted]

Originally posted by Spallalala
Well.. It just so happens that Im not in the USA.. We dont get treated like shit here.

But thanks for looking out for me. :rolleyes:

We're setting a record here, lala; this is actually twice where we are in agreement. ;)

Marijuana laws in other parts of the world aren't always nearly as strict as those imposed by the ridiculous lawmakers of the US of A. Also, in many places, the police aren't quite as... how should I put it?.... enthusiastic? about catching and detaining their perpetrators.

Many US cops aren't quite so brutal. My brother is pretty cool with normal folks that break the law by smoking pot. He hates taking them to jail. He doesn't believe that mary jane should be illegal, but fact is that in the US it IS illegal. Hopefully that will change at some point.

But yeah, from what I've heard about Australian culture, I don't imagine that lalala's arms are going to be twisted up in weird angles, put into a wrist lock, and shoved into a police car just for enjoying a Sunday blunt or anything elso short of a very violent crime. They have a little more...tact, shall we say.

I'm not coming down on you, Mona, but you just gotta understand that the US doesn't set the bar on how police operate around the world.

[Spallalala]

Originally posted by Haunted
We're setting a record here, lala; this is actually twice where we are in agreement. ;)




Dont make this a habit. We could end up bitch slapping each other again .. :)

[Haunted]

Or kissin' in the ladies' or some fucked up shit like that. 'Course, Cheeba'd probably remove my trachea with a spork.:D

[Posher778]

Originally posted by Haunted
Or kissin' in the ladies' or some fucked up shit like that. 'Course, Cheeba'd probably remove my trachea with a spork.:D

a wooden spork!

[PR3SSUR3]

Cannabis makes you introspective/self-pitying.

[Haunted]

That depends on the mood you're in before you smoke. Sometimes I've introspective enough to enjoy the more positive perks of my personality or to at least have a really good conversation over a good cup of coffee (pot makes me crave coffee).

If I'm smoking refer, and I start feeling sad, I quickly find something to divert my attention. I want to enjoy myself. In fact, I've been a blubbering basket case when I was drunk way more times than I've ever been while high. I mean if I have to watch all the 'toons at illwillpress.com a million times or get up and dance, that's what I'm gonna do.

You can't stick one emotional lable on marijuana because a. it effects everyone differently, b. you have a certain amount of control over how you want your experience to be, and c. if you've never smoked before and just seen people high it doesn't make you any sort of judge as to the effects of marijuana.

They don't know the total effects of THC on the brain, that's why my psychiatrist recommends that people on psychotropic meds don't smoke it. There are millions of studies, billions of theories, and zero conclusions.

[monalisa]

Originally posted by Haunted
We're setting a record here, lala; this is actually twice where we are in agreement. ;)

Marijuana laws in other parts of the world aren't always nearly as strict as those imposed by the ridiculous lawmakers of the US of A. Also, in many places, the police aren't quite as... how should I put it?.... enthusiastic? about catching and detaining their perpetrators.

Many US cops aren't quite so brutal. My brother is pretty cool with normal folks that break the law by smoking pot. He hates taking them to jail. He doesn't believe that mary jane should be illegal, but fact is that in the US it IS illegal. Hopefully that will change at some point.

But yeah, from what I've heard about Australian culture, I don't imagine that lalala's arms are going to be twisted up in weird angles, put into a wrist lock, and shoved into a police car just for enjoying a Sunday blunt or anything elso short of a very violent crime. They have a little more...tact, shall we say.

I'm not coming down on you, Mona, but you just gotta understand that the US doesn't set the bar on how police operate around the world.

Well, thank God (or whoever) for that! I know there's other countries that are more intelligent with how they treat people, and there are actually good cops in the US, unfortunately I think they are the minority. Ever notice how the cop cars no longer have the "To Protect and Serve" logo on them, at least they don't up here any more. OK, I'm done with my little rant, just be careful folks, ya never know who's watching, and no I'm not overly paranoid, I speak the truth, trust me.

[Spallalala]

Originally posted by Haunted
Or kissin' in the ladies' or some fucked up shit like that. 'Course, Cheeba'd probably remove my trachea with a spork.:D

uh...sorry haunted. You just dont do it for me.

How about we go back to smacking each other around.. :)

[PR3SSUR3]

That depends on the mood you're in before you smoke. Sometimes I've introspective enough to enjoy the more positive perks of my personality or to at least have a really good conversation over a good cup of coffee (pot makes me crave coffee).

If I'm smoking refer, and I start feeling sad, I quickly find something to divert my attention. I want to enjoy myself. In fact, I've been a blubbering basket case when I was drunk way more times than I've ever been while high. I mean if I have to watch all the 'toons at illwillpress.com a million times or get up and dance, that's what I'm gonna do.

You can't stick one emotional lable on marijuana because a. it effects everyone differently, b. you have a certain amount of control over how you want your experience to be, and c. if you've never smoked before and just seen people high it doesn't make you any sort of judge as to the effects of marijuana.

They don't know the total effects of THC on the brain, that's why my psychiatrist recommends that people on psychotropic meds don't smoke it. There are millions of studies, billions of theories, and zero conclusions.


I would say you could emotionally label it as much as you can label alcohol with 'aggression' and 'confidence'.

These might not be constant, guaranteed traits of the drugs, but they sure are popular symptoms - which let's face it is what leads us as users and scientists as researchers to draw their conclusions in respect of the effects.

I've seen heavy smokers go down the same mental path - they do an awful lot of planning, moaning and reflection with a distinct delusion of grandeur... maybe the dope gives them insight and good ideas, but carrying them through is another matter.

[Haunted]

Originally posted by Spallalala
uh...sorry haunted. You just dont do it for me.

How about we go back to smacking each other around.. :)

Yeah, that's probably true, but I'm really not up for the smacking around bit anymore. After that last round I said to m'self, "Heather me girl, you're never too old to lighten up."

I mean, I don't know you. I don't know the things that go on in your daily life. I don't know when your feelings are hurt and you're angry. I can't really judge you, you know.

You don't know me. You don't know that I have a disabling dose of bipolar disorder, one of the five mental disorders that is actual a scientifically shown medical/psychiatric problem that can be detected on various and sundry brain scans. So you wouldn't know whether I'm having a manic episode or a depressive episode.

In summary, fighting about shit that in reality doesn't matter a whole hell of a lot is sorta kinda pointless. I can promise you this: I'm not going to start anything. I'm especially not going to make anymore below the belt comments. If there's an intense interesting discussion going on, and we disagree, I'm probably going to agree to disagree so as not to start any kind of bull poop at all.

Am I becoming a passive? Hell no. Passiveness isn't in my vocabulary. However, I'm learning how to pick and choose my battles. I'm only going to fight for something that benefits a greater good, and a "greater good" does not include my ego.

Allow me to quote a short song by Ani Difranco called "Joyful Girl"

i do it for the joy it brings
because i'm a joyful girl
because the world owes me nothing
and we owe each other the world
i do it because it's the least i can do
i do it because i learned it from you
i do it just because i want to
because I want to

everything i do is judged
and they mostly get it wrong
but oh well
'cuz the bathroom mirror has not budged
and the woman who lives there can tell
the truth from the stuff that they say
and she looks me in the eye
and says would you prefer the easy way?
no, well o.k. then
don't cry

and i wonder if everything i do
i do instead
of something i want to do more
the question fills my head
i know that there's no grand plan here
this is just the way it goes
and when everything else seems unclear
i guess at least i know

i do it for the joy it brings...

[wood_elf_pansy]

I would rather smoke a little(or a lot) of weed than drink any alcohol. I mean, to drink is all good and whatnot but, I'd rather not feel like shit afterward.

I haven't smoked weed in at least two months. :( I wanna get high so bad.

Maybe one reason that I don't like to drink other than the not wanting to feel shitty part is that my husband, my father, my grandmother, my brother(sooner or later), and so many more people in my family are alcoholics and it has ruined them in so many ways.

Someone mentioned that people call weed a gateway drug but, in my opinion, alcohol is a gateway drug. My dad is addicted to crack or coke or whatever(I don't know shit about drugs because i'd rather not) and he didn't start until after he got drunk one day with a friend, or so he says.

Well, my opinion has been told...

Bebo the pansy wood elf

[stubbornforgey]

At the end of day..each to his own.
Drugs are everywhere..whether we want to admit or not..all of us divulge every once in a while in the substance..
its in our coffee...its in the perfume we use...its even in our cokes..
why do you think these things are so addictive.?
If ppl choose to smoke it in thier homes or with freinds...who are we to judge..?
If ppl want to sniff it up thier noses..who are we to judge..??
My only concern is how readily available these things are to our children...and easily accesible.
These ppl don't care because it all comes down to the $$s.As long as theres a
buyer...there will always be a seller.
Last year there was a huge march here in NewZealand..protesting against a pathetic issue.ownership of the seabed and foreshore.
Maori tribes and leaders ..united and
1000's upon 1000's took a week long march to parliment in protest.
Last month..a sole grandmother tried to start up a march against the sale of 'p' cos of the damaget it has done to her own children/grandchildren alike...
She called upon the maori to join her as it effects them more deeply than any other race...
a whole 50 ppl turned up...and they marched from one end of the street to the other..then went on home.
As long as they got thier faces in the paper..they were happy.
And only one maori leader turned up.
Was the same as the march against child abuse..but in that case..100 or so
showed up.
The priorities are all fucked up in my opinion.

[Haunted]

You make a lot of good points, Stubborn. I think which is to say that, it's just me, but reality, not even from a metaphysical perspective, is just sorta up to people. This because every method or law just isn't true in every situation. Some things are true 99.9999999% of the time but you still have to allow for that .000000001% may switch everything around and dump everything you've thought on it's head.

Is it all ineffable or do we just see where it goes?

[stubbornforgey]

Ironic as this may sound..
Its like hittng your head on a brick wall.
Everybody who indulges in drugs n alcohol
always have an excuse for their habits..
alike the religion and abortion debate..nothing can be said or done to change ones veiws on the matter.
As i mentioned earlier..it only bothers me where our young ones are concerned.
What gets me is this..most of
these people have children of thier own,
they keep poisons out of thier reaches,
they make sure that sharp objects are locked away from them..they protect their children in any way possible...and yet..
they think nothing of keeping bottles of alcohol in their fridges or cabinets..
some even go as far as driving drunk with their kids in the cars.
Same as weed...some parents think nothing of smoking it in front of thier kids
or leaving it in full veiw..because as they mildly put it ...its their right as adults to do as they please.
Its like how hypocritical we are when we teach our kids about stranger danger..
As adults we know damn well santa does not exist..and yet we allow our babies to sit on an old mans lap who is dressed in a red suit..or chase after
ronald macdonald..some weirdo in a gay costume.
'shakes her head'
oh and by the way..I told my children , when they were old enough to understand about believing in santa.

[Haunted]

Anybody who indulges in anything, be it icecream or caffeine makes excuses for what they do. Jesus christ, food can be an addiction.

I grew up with beer in the fridge. I knew that it was an adult drink and that if I touched it I was in trouble. I'm not a raging alcoholic. As a matter of fact, I don't even like alcohol that much.

I mean, sure, I don't want kids to smoke and drink. Humans don't stop developing until they're at least 18. Those types of behaviors can really fuck up a kid's developement. That's why, in the US, we have laws about when someone can start drinking, and if we were to have laws legalizing marijuana, that limit of 21 would apply also.

Furthermore, you can't judge parenting by your own mold. Some people just don't fit and they're doing fine. This is an extreme example, but it proves my point. One of my best friends is a genius. That's not an exageration, that's not a pet term. It's a fact. He's so fucking brilliant it's not funny. His mom smokes pot, and he smokes pot. Do they fit the mold? No. Smoking a joint to them is what having a glass of wine is to other people.

Not everybody reacts to whatever media source you tune into or whatever your neighbor's kids are doing. However, that's possibly why it's so dangerous, because it's unpredicable.

[stubbornforgey]

Exactly..
they lowered the drinking age here to 18..but younger are being supplied by thier parents.
The whole..'well its ok because..i want my child to be able to be drink in a safe enviroment'..then the same parents allow thier kids to jump behind the wheel n
drive or be a passenger in which a mate of thiers is driving...its ridiculous..
Their have been many road casualties over here concerning young kids from this whole ordeal..
If i could only go back n paste you the amount of news items concerning the deaths...and the pics of the very same parents scratching their heads and asking themselves..'why'
Your lucky to have been disciplined enough sister boo to not touch the liquor in the fridge...in reality now..its not that simple anymore.
Alot has to do with peer pressure etc..
'yawwwwwwwn'..(soz)
have been up for a few hours now..em very sleepy.

[Haunted]

Yeah, kids are dying by the bunches here in NC for driving drunk. I, of course, will never say this to my kids, I might just have to be a hypocrite and keep my kiddies off the sauce and weed. I'd actually rather have my kids drive stoned then drunk.

Driving Stoned:

Person stoned: Okay... Oh! A red light! Okay, I have to stop! I'm stopping. Is there anybody coming? No. *taps wheel* Okay, green. I can go. What's the speed limit? 45? Am doing....46!% Shit! Slow down to...43, just to be safe. Okay, stop sign. Coming to a stop. Stopped. Anybody coming? *looks both ways* Anybody coming? *looks both ways* Can I go? *Goes*

Basically, a twenty minute trip home takes nearly forty minutes, because you're driving like you're ninty

[PR3SSUR3]

Personally I find stoned and drunk the worst combination.

Not even to excess - half a joint and a couple of pints warp your senses more significantly than more of one or the other.

[Haunted]

One question. Have you ever actually been stoned? I must have missed whether you've said you have or have not. I'm just curious for my own sake.:)

[PR3SSUR3]

Yes, though I try not to be these days because it gets in the way - in the way of work, of good health and generally getting things done.

Most people assume detractors of dope to be non-smokers, but that is not always the case.

I would prefer to look at it as 'putting the toys away', as moving on from a once fun, but increasingly dangerous and deluded altered state.

[lovecraft]

You could say pot is physically harmless, that is debatable.
But it is harmful in other ways, such as a parent not keeping a job because they refuse a drug test. THis doesn't even have to be a parent. Or how about a child who has parents that are diehard pot heads and they are forced out of the house or shut in their room until all the friends are gone. Sounds harmless but its not. So for some people, it is harmless, for others it not much like eveything in the world. I just want to give another perspective.

[PR3SSUR3]

Smoking causes cancer.

Without tobacco, smoking cannabis is thought to cause cancer.

If not cancer, negative respiratory effects are unchallenged - dope smokers don't cough for no reason.

[cheebacheeba]

I think inhaling ANY substance into your lungs that comes off burning material is a bad idea to start with. I mean sure, I do it here and there, but I'll never debate that the health issues are there. My main issues are based on my personal experiences - how my body has reacted to both these things, and my observation of others also. It DOES seem that alcohol is not only more addictive, but used far more regularly, and in greater quantities than most green smokers...I mean, weed is more expedient and potent in it's effects, I guess that's why.

Again, it's a moderation thing...going into excess with either can hurt you, but I've seen a lot more go down the "occasional alcohol use to complete alcoholism" road than "occasional toke to complete pothead" path. So I gotta remain slightly biased to that extent.
As for mixing tobbacco with it...nah...unless it's a blunt in which I'll use the least chemically altered tobbacco available to me.

Or how about a child who has parents that are diehard pot heads and they are forced out of the house or shut in their room until all the friends are gone.
As I've said, I don't really indulge enough anymore for this to be an issue, but all the same...
I would never smoke weed anyplace around a child. I probably wouldn't get tanked around a kid either. Smoking, definately not...because I'd never do anything that's going to fuck with a childs health in their formative years. They don't have a choice in where they live until theyre 16 (here), I think they should at least have the choice of clean air in their lungs. This wouldn't only be to set an example, but very much moreso to protect the health of the child. I think parents that smoke ANYTHING near/with their children ought to have a little more respect, and understand that responsibility doesn't stop at feeding, clothing, and giving a roof to their child.

[SKOOFx]

Originally posted by PR3SSUR3
Smoking causes cancer.

Without tobacco, smoking cannabis is thought to cause cancer.

If not cancer, negative respiratory effects are unchallenged - dope smokers don't cough for no reason.
Actually, certain chemicals in marijuana actually effect the lungs in POSITIVE ways. They reverse the effects of tobacco smoke, they open up the poars in the lungs. (Thats why if you know anyone who has asthma, they can smoke a J and go about their day, but if they take a puff of a cig, they will literally have an attack. (I will find the supporting documents , i understand that you will probably call a bluff on this one too)

I truly beleive that everyone is free to beleive whatever they want, and i will NEVER force my opinion onto others.

but I definitly beleive that alcoholism and cig addiction is 10x WORSE than pot. Yet because its "legal", its ok for bars to be packed on the weekends with people getting wasted, yet a couple at home smoking a joint = wrong.

You said that you call my bluff on knowing successful wealthy pot smokers. And thats fine, but its actually the truth. I know lawyers, doctors and bussiness men who all love to smoke. My doctor even recomended it for my anxiety attacks. (After i told her I do not want to take the pills she prescribed , which are FAR worse)

ReeferMadness over the past century has distorted the facts about marijuana.

TOBACCO
ALCOHOL,
All our addictive.
EXCEPT weed. (psychologically yes, but if someone cant get their hands on pot after being an avid smoker (daily basis), once a full week passes, they no longer bitch or moan about craving it, and the body only goes through minor withdrawls, like difficulty sleeping, and slight grumpiness.
(UNLIKE BOOZE , CIGS & CERTAIN PHARMACUTICAL DRUGS, WHICH ARE PUSHED HARDER THAN CRACK- ALL IN THE NAME OF MONEY)

Any addiction is bad. I agree, even WEED.

But i hate how, weed smokers = bad

while cig smokers and alcohol users = THE NORM.


EVERYTHING IN MODERATION.
THE WORLD REALLY NEEDS TO DE-BRAINWASH THEMSELVES FROM THE "ABOVE THE INFLUENCE PROPOGANDA".
Its as if NON weed smoker, feel like better people. I know. I was HIGHLY against drugs till the age of 20. I was wrong.

As for medicinal purposes, weed can assist MANY MANY things, but the pharm companies would never allow that to become legit. $ will be lost. And they are in the bussiness of selling chemicals, NOT helping people.
(Not all, but the majority)
Ask anyone who has ever been on an anti depresant, after they come off it, ask them how USED they felt, especially, if they came to beleive that a little weed now and then, could have balanced them out better than PUMPING MAOI and other serotonin level modification drugs into their head.

[Despare]

How does marijuana affect the lungs?
Scientists believe that marijuana can be especially harmful to the lungs because users often inhale the unfiltered smoke deeply and hold it in their lungs as long as possible. Therefore, the smoke is in contact with lung tissues for long periods of time, which irritates the lungs and damages the way they work. Marijuana smoke contains some of the same ingredients in tobacco smoke that can cause emphysema and cancer.

Can marijuana cause cancer?
Marijuana smoke has been found to contain more cancer-causing agents than is found in tobacco smoke. Examination of human lung tissue that had been exposed to marijuana smoke over a long period of time in a laboratory showed cellular changes called metaplasia that are considered precancerous. In laboratory test, the tars from marijuana smoke have produced tumors when applied to animal skin. These studies suggest that it is likely that marijuana may cause cancer if used for a number of years.


I drink, not too often but rather heavily when I do.

[SKOOFx]

.....................

[Despare]

80 and 88? Didn't coffee cause cancer then?


June 22, 2005
A research team led by SIUC biotechnologist David A. Lightfoot has found that tobacco equipped with an extra gene can produce markedly larger amounts of 159 chemical compounds. Fourteen of these could become the drugs of tomorrow, fighting off tumors, treating epilepsy and Parkinson's disease -- maybe even curing the common cold.

That doesn't mean it's good to smoke...

[Haunted]

I realize that people have problems with psychotropic medications (antidepressants, anti-anxiety, anti psychotics, etc), but please leave them out of this argument as the do not compare. Take it from me. I actually have to take some of these for my health the same way a diabetic would have to take glucose or any other example of a chronic illness.

Many people are given these meds irresponsibly, and I know that. However many people, like myself, are given these meds because our brain chemistry zigs when it should zag. If you gave me a shot of a glucose based radioactive isotope dye and took a P.E.T scan of my brain, you'd be able to see the imbalanced chemical exchanges that go on causing me to have a severe case of Bipolar disorder.

F.Y.I However, progressive neuropsychiatry is finding out that anticonvulsant medications such as those given to patients with epilepsy are more effective in treating mental illness than the aforementioned psychotropics. However, I still maintain that they should be left out of this argument.

[PR3SSUR3]

Some critics exaggerate the dangers of marijuana smoking by fallaciously citing a study by Dr. Tashkin which found that daily pot smokers experienced a "mild but significant" increase in airflow resistance in the large airways greater than that seen in persons smoking 16 cigarettes per day.1 What they ignore is that the same study examined other, more important aspects of lung health, in which marijuana smokers did much better than tobacco smokers. Dr. Tashkin himself disavows the notion that one joint equals 16 cigarettes....etc.etc.

Hmmmm, but you should really quote your cut & paste sources.

Actually there are some interesting points made here:-


http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3475

[ItsAlive75]

Dude, everything and anything can kill you, so just let me enjoy myself with whatever I want until I die.

[Haunted]

I have to say that IA makes a good point. However, I will concede to bitching about fast food. I think it's probably the deadliest habit in the world. Well, parts of the world where they have fast food chains (which is damn near everywhere) anyway.

[PR3SSUR3]

Dude, everything and anything can kill you, so just let me enjoy myself with whatever I want until I die.

Go for it.

We'll discuss it here.

[ItsAlive75]

Originally posted by PR3SSUR3
Go for it.

We'll discuss it here.

I'm sure you will. My death will be a monumental incident that the entire world will be talking about.

By the way, I'm guessing you haven't smoked, drank or done anything fun during your lifetime.

[insane78]

I've been both high and drunk before and I really didn't have any problems that night. I did like 2 nights after that when I drank some cheap vodka, but I wasn't high that night.

[Despare]

I don't care if people do or don't smoke weed, it doesn't bother me in the least. I like to drink and loved to smoke (wish I still did). The problem is that people try to justify weed and say that it isn't bad for them. Drinking is bad for you, pot is bad you, sitting too close to the friggin' TV is bad for you. I could care less if you smoked a pound a day and always had a pinner hidden in your shoe, just don't think me ignorant enough to believe that it's good for you.

[bwind22]

~
~
~
lllZZZZZZZZZZZZZ> :D

[PR3SSUR3]

By the way, I'm guessing you haven't smoked, drank or done anything fun during your lifetime

Does my informed commentary really give you that impression?

It's the dope you see - makes me spout a lot of self-important bullshit.

:p