Horror in movies and video games

[Media_Guy_Josh]

ive played doom 3 lately, and the violence in it matches and in some cases, overwhelms even the biggest slasher flick....what do you guys out there think about the level of violence in video games...i need responses for my media project too...:p

[wufong]

in games where its just killing with out a reason, it's boring(except for battle field 1942) but games like get away where the killings are for a reason then its more fun.

[Media_Guy_Josh]

can games teach you to kill? you use the example of battlefield 1942...can it aid hand eye co-ordination in relation to a gun? they say Doom was played extensivley by the collumbine high school killers...

[wufong]

well normally I'll say no. but I was watching this show one night, where they were doing a piece on school yard killings. ( I don't know the school I think it might have been colubine. I'm not sure.)
And this cop was talking about the number kids who died from head shots, he said a good 90% of the victims wounds were from head shots. And he was saying how that it just a amazing and that they were better shots than the swats guys. anywho it turns out the boys who did it fav game was one of those ones where you actually hold a replica pistol and shoot at the screens. supposedly they would spend hours playing it. I'm not saying the game turned them in to killers, but it help with the killing or so they say

[urgeok]

people who are already fucked will be drawn to things that attract them.
pedophiles will get off on the underwear section of a kids clothing catalogue. Those catalogues didn't turn people into pedophiles ...
Everyone who played doom didnt turn into a pathetic loser without the ability to seperate fantasy from reality. Otherwise half the kids in every school would be dead.

The idiots who blame the games, movies, music, are taking the easy way out. Crazy people will always find something to fuel their madness.
It could be the news or history books ...are we going to ban them ?

Flys are attracted to lights. The lights didnt turn them into flys.

what happened is that these kids were either wired wrong at birth or their parents weren't doing their job - or both.

In Doom you kill monsters ... when you start seeing your classmates as 2 dimentional computer generated monsters then you have problems bigger than any game could have given you.

[Media_Guy_Josh]

yeh i kno about this one! it was in a book i read, the kid shot eight times and hit eight kids... cops only manage half that... waht im getting at tho is that whilst as a pc gamer from time to time, i dont have the killer instinct...you need more than the skills to kill sum one... that was the problem in WW1- loads of guys shot to miss cos they werent trained to blindly kill, kids are inteligent and can define right and wrong.....and why am i telling you this?... whats youre oppinion?

[Media_Guy_Josh]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by urgeok
[B]

Flys are attracted to lights. The lights didnt turn them into flys.

what happened is that these kids were either wired wrong at birth or their parents weren't doing their job - or both.

the point is a good one... but there must be some accountability on the part of the game... the US govenment use Doom as a training simulator...obviously this game either desensitises humans of makes them better at killing

anyone play doom3? its not V good... gimicky and stereotypical...

[wufong]

i hear a lot of those drones that the army uses to spy with have controls a lot like ps2

[urgeok]

but there must be some accountability on the part of the game... the US govenment use Doom as a training simulator...obviously this game either desensitises humans of makes them better at killing

[/B]

i think that you have to realize what the mindset is going into the game ..
if the military is using it then people are entering the game knowing what their goal is.

what kid buys doom as a learn how to kill kit ?

i think what it does teach is reaction time and hand eye coordination.
Desensitizing ? maybe ... hard for me to see but possible.
I think maybe moreso with Grand Theft Auto or games like that where people are killing people. They are dissrespectful of human life in general and i agree that there should be some sensitivity and responsibility shown by the makers of these games as they know that kids will be playing them no matter what.
Its not the game that devalues human life as much as the acceptance of it.

I wouldnt have a problem with my kid playing a monster killing game vs a people killing game. Actually we dont even have toy guns around at this point because it's not fantasy anymore.
When i was a lid we played guns - cops and robbers - or the politically incorrect cowboys and indians because we were kids in a small town where these things were as foreign and fantastic as pirates or spacemen.
these days with kids bringing guns to school .. its too much of a reality.

[voltron]

Guns don't kill people, video games kill people.

[Media_Guy_Josh]

guns kill people in the same way knives of bombs do... to suggest video games kill people exclusivley is insane

stoping children playing games amongst themselves is a bit too politicaly correct for my taste...but its not my call...

[Kemal]

The so-called "first person shooter" games are basically off-the-shelf combat simulators. There was once some interest by the military in using these games, including Doom. I don't know how far they took it, but if they're using these kinds of games today, I would imagine they'd program their own.

While games are good at imparting some hand-eye coordination, problem-solving skills and team tactics, they can't teach you to shoot. That's a different set of motor skills.

And I don't think that violent games encourage actual violence. Millions of people enjoy violent games not to mention violent movies, violent books, etc. and lead perfectly normal lives.

[Media_Guy_Josh]

thank you! thats the point im trying to elicit from people... you can learn all about guns, god knows i do... but you have to be predispososed to kill...Doom doesnt give you blind rage.

by the way...the army uses doom and others like it...the aliens somehow desensitise the men

you said tactics cant be taught by a game, i cant agree with this- medal of honor, full spectrm warrior, socom, and MGS all do this...

[urgeok]

i think you misread .. he said you can learn those things from the games to some extent.

just not the actual shooting to which i agree ... picking up a heavy gun, dealing with recoil .. aiming ..

a lot different than rolling a mouse around .. or even a plastic gun wired to a game.

[Death By Jell-O]

I'll speak on behalf of console games, because I don't play computer games....

Wow, ignorance amazes me sometimes........Why come here and ask for opinions, but by your own admission aren't looking for someone's opinion, you're trying to illicit a point....That's irrelevant though....

Games do not teach people to be stone cold killers.....I personally play SOCOM quite a bit, and while it is somewhat strategic, it in no way can teach you actual military tactics....This doesn't make me want to go out and kill anyone......

Games cannot aid in hand-eye coordination with a gun because there's a big difference in aiming and shooting a rifle, rather than using your thumbs to move a cursor to simulate aiming a rifle or hand gun.......They are in no way similar......Even with a hand held shooting device, in now way does sitting 6 feet from a TV screen improve your marksmanship.....Ever hear of anyone going on a "duck hunt" rampage after playing their NES? Didn't think so.....

As for your comment on the Columbine shootings, that's rediculous...That was one person......It's not as if a whole school full of Doom players all went on a rampage shooting everything in sight with a rocket launcher.........As for the kid shooting 8 times and managing 8 hits while cops only manage half of that........It's easy to hit 8 people out of however many HUNDREDS there were in that room.......You could close your eyes and fire into a crowded room and hit 8 out of 8..........That point holds no weight with me at all.......

And as for being able to "learn about guns" from a video game....Impossible....In real life the guns portrayed in video games are either fictional, or just a general representation of the real thing......

Ok I'm rambling with really no point other than Video games cannot desensitize people....Movies? Maybe, but only to a point.....The truth is, you can turn on the news and see death, violence, rape, etc. etc....Same in movies and TV shows.......But if you were to walk down the street and see someone in front of you lose the back of their skull to a gunshot, you're not gonna be desensitized to that.......They are only desensitized to it to the extent that they are safe at home, in the safety of their living room.......Look at the soldiers that came back from Vietnam....Think they got desensitized to death and violence while shooting at people, and having to kill women and small children to save their own lives while fighting in a war? Don't think so.......How many ended up with severe emotional baggage? Lots......Probably most of them....

So even if you play every violent game out there, and watch every violent movie you can, it's not going to make you a killer...it's not gonna hone in that killer instinct......

[urgeok]

well, thats pretty much what the rest of us has been saying ...

[Death By Jell-O]

I know....I just thought I'd consolidate it all, add my own wording, and have the definitive answer........For those that don't read everything.......:rolleyes:

[urgeok]

i think the last thing to say would be that if your kid is a little degenterate misfit unsocialble wierdo that likes to torture small animals and write fan letters to charles manson ...

you might not want to let him/her play violent video games.

[Death By Jell-O]

So in the end, it all comes down to Parenting.......

THE END

[urgeok]

undeniably - yes

[Iniquity]

Originally posted by Media_Guy_Josh
you said tactics cant be taught by a game, i cant agree with this- medal of honor, full spectrm warrior, socom, and MGS all do this...

"tactics" are alot easier to come by whilst sitting in the comfort of your lazy boy recliner, feet propped up, and of course the ability to press PAUSE, to either reflect, or take that proverbial nature break. Try learning tactics while the whizz of a projectile barely misses your face and you can feel the heat almost sear your flesh. Try learning tactics while you crawl through a field, attempting to do so while not being discovered, then all of a sudden the sky illuminates showing your exact position, and the mortars start rocking the earth beneath you as you feel that all too familiar warmth of shitting your pants and there isnt a damn thing you can do about it except hope they either run out of ammo or think they have killed you and stop firing.

[Media_Guy_Josh]

quote:
the soldiers that came back from Vietnam....Think they got desensitized to death and violence while shooting at people, and having to kill women and small children to save their own lives while fighting in a war? Don't think so.......How many ended up with severe emotional baggage? Lots......Probably most of them....

this begs the question of how they did it at the time, a human being is programed at birth to respond in a certain way to a person in danger, it goes againstr the thing that defines us from most animals...to kill a person is to go against everything that makes us civilised, and is not undertaken (usualy) lightly...a GI does basic training to become able to kill...fieldcraft comes into it, but mostly to learn to kill.

quote:
As for your comment on the Columbine shootings, that's rediculous...That was one person......It's not as if a whole school full of Doom players all went on a rampage shooting everything in sight with a rocket launcher.........As for the kid shooting 8 times and managing 8 hits while cops only manage half of that........It's easy to hit 8 people out of however many HUNDREDS there were in that room.......You could close your eyes and fire into a crowded room and hit 8 out of 8..........That point holds no weight with me at all.......

there were 2 people in collumbine...im nitpicking, were talking a headshot here...dead with a single bullet.

Quote:
Wow, ignorance amazes me sometimes........Why come here and ask for opinions, but by your own admission aren't looking for someone's opinion, you're trying to illicit a point....That's irrelevant though....

well, sorry

thanks for the response

[urgeok]

Originally posted by Media_Guy_Josh
quote:
to kill a person is to go against everything that makes us civilised, and is not undertaken (usualy) lightly...a GI does basic training to become able to kill...fieldcraft comes into it, but mostly to learn to kill.




actually the most importand training a GI gets (other than to handle his weapon) is how to obey orders without question.
This is neccessary in war .. you arent supposed to think, just react. Higher ranking soldiers do the thinking.
This is why your will and individuality is broken in training .. you have to bond as a group and work as one man.

The most powerful tool in enabling someone to kill a person from another country they've never met before (other than self survival) is propoganda.
The enemy on bothe sides paint the other as being the devil.
I agree that it would be very hard for me to knowingly shoot some kid with a life of his own .. as equally scared as me ...just because our governments told us too.
We are taught from birth that killing is wrong, live and let live .. and then along come these circumstances that throw all of that back in our face.

I'm glad i never had to participate in anything like this.
I have a problem with athority and i would probably have been excecuted for shooting my own commanding officer.

[Vodstok]

Okay, my opinions started piling up to the point where i couldnt read any more, so sorry if any of this has been covered.

For the rexcord, the MArines used a version of doom for training. It was used to train the soldiers to work as a team, so basically tactics. I am an incredible shot within the world of video games. However, in real life, i am a terrible shot. Hand eye coordination used in operating a mouse is entirely different from the hand eye coordination used in aiming a gun. there is 0 correlation between the two.

I would like to see a reliable source on the supposed kid making 8 headshots in 8 shots. sounds like a case of "a kid at my school saw this magazine article when he was on vacation, so trust me, its reliable":rolleyes:

there is 0 Accountability on the creators of violent video games for desensitization or killing. this is why there are ratings on games. a 12 year old will not turn into a murderer/rapist from killing hookers in GTA. Killing demons in doom will not desensitize a kid to the deaths of fellow students. Playing games will not make a kid a marksman.

The world has been and will be filled with sick people. It is also filled with lazy assholes that will jump ion any bandwagon necesarry to further their own agendas. Does the average 60+ year old person incongress LIKE video games? Do they like horror movies? Music Videos? Rap or Metal? No. they are trheatened by what is new and different. Plus, too many of them are in the "Religious Majority". In many cases. their views are almost naziesque. Did watching TV make them like this? Did repeated viewings of Leave it to Beaver give them a fear of everything that isnt Christian and White-bread? nope. it was the same thing that makes kids kill, and turns harmless nerds into serial killers:

Upbringing, and whatever psychological issues they developed on their own.

You cant even blame violent porn for creating a rapist. The ju7mp from fantasy to creatying a reality is entirely in the hand sof the individual.
if a generally "good" person stumbles over some child porn on the net and then starts molesting kids, there wiring was bad to begin with. there is a choice made, even if he suddenly realises he has an impulse upon seeing these things. He can report it to the FBI. He can avoid that page and pretend he never saw it. he can act out on what he saw, performing the same crime.

Everyone is responsible for their own actions. When it is determined that they arent, it still isnt the fault of the "influential media". if a person can be swayed by these things, they are not emotionally or mentally fit to exist innormal society ANYWAY, so they should be locked up/institutionalised.

End of story.

now, if i could only convince congess of this...

[urgeok]

Originally posted by Vodstok
Okay, my opinions started piling up to the point where i couldnt read any more, so sorry if any of this has been covered.



yep it was all covered...

read the posts next time you lazy bugger :)

[EXTR3MIST]

Speaking of Columbine, try and find Duck! The Carbine High Massacre created by the very promising William Hellfire & Joey Smack.

There was brief unease about Manhunt in the UK over some copycat incident or other... the protracted death scenes in this game are fucking awesome, and get more savage as the game progresses.

Now, pass me that sickle!

[Vodstok]

Anyone here feel like committing a homicide?

Me either.

I am such a fan of violent media, that i aspire to produce it in almost every form (art, games, literature, film). i cant wait until i get blamed for something awful happening.....:rolleyes: