Who do you think won the Presidential debate?

[Stingy Jack]

Personally, I think Kerry won the debate easily. The whole theme of this debate, that I saw, was whether or not a President should admit he made a mistake when he does make one and change his course of action to fix the mistake.

It is a fact that the war in Iraq was, is, and continues to be a mess. This mess was caused by the errors in judgement committed by Bush. Last night, Kerry tried to get Bush to admit that he did not handle the war situation in the best possible way, but Bush refused to admit to making an error. Instead, Bush blasted Kerry for suggesting that we change how the war is operated, saying that to do so would "send mixed messages" to the world that the American President doesn't know what he's doing -- a message that would be devastating. Kerry, on the other hand, argued that "if you make a mistake, fix it!" Don't continue down the same path errors just to avoid admitting you were wrong. It would be like me in the classroom: Let's say I've developed a certain teaching strategy that I was certain would work. However, when I implement this strategy in the classroom, it is a huge failure. Kids aren't learning, they're constantly confused, and they begin to misbehave because they don't know what's going on in the lessons. Bush's response to this would be: "Keep going with the same strategy. If you change now, it would send a message to the kids that you are an uncertain teacher who doesn't think through what he does. You will lose their respect that way." Kerry's response: "Change the way you teach. It is far less damaging to admit you were wrong and try to repair the error, than it would be to continue with this same line of devastating action."

I agree with Kerry, and I think Bush made himself out to look pretty foolish last night.

[zwoti]

the king of the long posts returns to form :D

unfortunately being from the uk and having absolutely no interest in any form of politics.....this is the limit to my contribution to the subject.

[FreddyC.Krueger]

Originally posted by Stingy Jack

I think Bush made himself out to look pretty foolish last night. He does that every time he opens his idiotic mouth, the dumbass baster. Kerry won, hands down. I still say Jerry should be the president. "Screw Kerry! Vote Jerry!"


Kerry/Edwards For President--it's the better and right choice.

And welcome back ol' mighty king. Still serching through the pupkin path?

[amycutthroat]

My biggest beef, if you will, regarding iraq was that implications were made relating it to the 9/11 terrorist attacks and we were told that inteligence reports that WMD are being harbored and that is the purpose of our going against the UN to invade iraq.

then, oh snap, no WMD but we did capture a genocidal dictator and we're going to establish a new regime -- Mission accomplished.

how is the mission accomplished if the mission was based on fictional WMD?

That aside, how hypocritical that we should ignore so much that happens in the world yet step in in Iraq. We waste our lives and resources on the newly fabricated mission where we turn our backs on so much suffering that happens elsewhere, often at our hands?

eff that, yo.

[Gothic-chick]

The most disturbing thing I heard during the whole debate was when Kerry said the USA should open bilateral talks with North Korea. What the fuck? God help us if that man gets elected.....



George Bush is a great American and Leader! Hopefully he will continue to be our President for the next 4 years........ he's no doubt got my vote again.

[ShankS]

Originally posted by zwoti


unfortunately being from the uk ......this is the limit to my contribution to the subject.

ditto.

we only get to see clips of it on tv(dont have satellite tv) so dont really get to follow whats happening.

[Haunted]

Kerry, hands down. I was applauding when he discussed extra protection for nuclear and chemical plants. My father, literally, did Homer Simpson's job at a nuclear station. I don't want to be sitting in Three Mile Island.

Kerry 2005!

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by amycutthroat
My biggest beef, if you will, regarding iraq was that implications were made relating it to the 9/11 terrorist attacks and we were told that inteligence reports that WMD are being harbored and that is the purpose of our going against the UN to invade iraq.

then, oh snap, no WMD but we did capture a genocidal dictator and we're going to establish a new regime -- Mission accomplished.

how is the mission accomplished if the mission was based on fictional WMD?

That aside, how hypocritical that we should ignore so much that happens in the world yet step in in Iraq. We waste our lives and resources on the newly fabricated mission where we turn our backs on so much suffering that happens elsewhere, often at our hands?

eff that, yo.




The biggest problem the whole world faces is radical Muslim terrorists. Don't you get it??? They will not stop and the will not rest until they have killed everyone on this planet who doesn't share their beliefs and live under their rules.

The reasons for the war in Iraq go WAY beyond WMD's.. Those poor people along with millions of others spread across the globe have been and still are praying for someone"America" to come help them.

It's pretty clear to me that our Country needs to be lead by someone who understands that completely and has the intestinal fortitude to do what it takes to make our world safer from these maniacs ( not someone who changes his mind to go along with whatever the current polls state).

War sucks, yeah and nobody wants it (except the terrorists) You can NOT get through to those people with words, they don't care about anything but killing and destroying the west.


They do not think the same way we do... Would you strap a bomb to yourself and walk into a crowd of innocent people so you could have 72 virgins in heaven? Would you chop off a mans head who is in your Country to help your people? Would you strap bombs to children and force them to walk into a building that has just been built to provide fresh water to thousands of people?

Yeah, lets sit and talk with these motherfuckers! Maybe we can change their minds and live in a perfect Utopia with them...

The reality is we have to kill them before they get ahold of Nukes because they WILL use them!

[amycutthroat]

I feel that it is very narrow-minded to belittle others' religious beliefs because they differ from your own. I also feel that you're making unfair generalizations and assumptions due to this.

That aside, the main purpose of the war in iraq, which is entirely seperate, mind you, was that they were supposedly harboring WMD. We go there and find no WMD, but capture saddam. If that was the intent from the begining, why did our President not position that to us?

[Haunted]

Um...he (Kerry) doesn't want to "talk" to the terrorists. He specifically said that he wanted to "kill" them. He wants to "talk" with the nations of the world to help solve this problem.

Just wanted to clear that up.

[MichaelMyers]

Bush came across as a blathering idiot. His awkward pauses, long moments of silence and inability to say anything other than stupid, catch phrases really bothered the hell out of me.

Kerry destroyed Bush in this debate. Period.

That said, Kerry came across to me as a naive and idealistic. However, the independent, American voter who doesn't know where Iraq is let alone North Korea and the complexities of our relationships around the world won't even realize it.

I have no idea how one can be so unprepared for a debate.

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by amycutthroat
I feel that it is very narrow-minded to belittle others' religious beliefs because they differ from your own. I also feel that you're making unfair generalizations and assumptions due to this.

That aside, the main purpose of the war in iraq, which is entirely seperate, mind you, was that they were supposedly harboring WMD. We go there and find no WMD, but capture saddam. If that was the intent from the begining, why did our President not position that to us?



He did,

WMD's are what the media decided to focus on resulting in tons of people thinking that was THE only reason. Just because we didn't find Wmd's YET doesn't mean they're not there.. Saddam had plenty of time to pass them over to Syria or where ever... It is common knowledge that he had them and used them in the past.. The point is Saddam posed the biggest threat to the world.. He would, could, and probably did put them into the hands of radicals.

Saddam needed to be eliminated as the financial source of Palestinian homicide bombers, and Al Qaeda operations . He paid 25 grand to the family of anyone who would strap a bomb to themselves.
Iraq was home to Ansar Al- Islam another terrorist group. He used WMD's on thousands of Kurds and slaughtered 200,000 Iraqis. He attacked Iran with WMD's.

Iraq deserved to be liberated, they've been waiting for a long time for help from the west...

The reason the war happened when it did is because of September 11th. It was an eye opener to say the least. The biggest threat to the world in this new day of Terror on US soil was Saddam and everyone knew it.

The UN bullshit was all for France, Russia, and Germany to cover their asses because there was a paper trail leading to each one of them.

43 Countries were for using force if Saddam did not comply which he didn't. This was based on the international laws he had continued to break. That had nothing to do with WMD's....


Fuck the UN , that's like asking all of your neighbors to vote on whether or not you should lock your doors at night. We don't need anyone's permission to protect ourselves. Iraq was a good place to start.

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by Haunted
Um...he (Kerry) doesn't want to "talk" to the terrorists. He specifically said that he wanted to "kill" them. He wants to "talk" with the nations of the world to help solve this problem.

Just wanted to clear that up.


Talking with North Korea won't solve anything...

[brideofcthulu]

We as Americans do a lot of flip flopping, first we say why didn't you stop 9/11 if you had any idea that it MIGHT happen. Then we turn around and say why did we start a war over what MIGHT be there. Make up your mind!
One thing is an absolute certainty, terrorists hate us and our way of life. If we do nothing, it will be destroyed.
The very things that make us free, make us vulnerable.
The fact that we can disagree with and criticize our government and its actions, is a freedom. That we can discuss it here openly without worrying someone may find out who we are and imprison us or persecute us, is a freedom. We can speak out, or we can remain silent, it is our choice. We don't realize that our civil liberties, our freedoms, are what they hate. They want us to live in fear with a government that knows everything about us, where we shop, where we talk, who owns a gun, who disagrees with the government, who doesn't. They want us to live like they do, I make the rules, you follow them, or you die!
I agree that the war in Iraq has degraded into a mess, but WHAT DO WE DO? Because doing nothing and living in fear, is exactly what they want us to do.

[amycutthroat]

per michael moore who i don't necessarily like, but he has made some good points here:

"I am so confused. Where exactly do you stand on the issue of Iraq? You, your Dad, Rummy, Condi, Colin, and Wolfie -- you have all changed your minds so many times, I am out of breath just trying to keep up with you!

Which of these 10 positions that you, your family and your cabinet have taken over the years represents your CURRENT thinking:

1983-88: WE LOVE SADDAM. On December 19, 1983, Donald Rumsfeld was sent by your dad and Mr. Reagan to go and have a friendly meeting with Saddam Hussein, the dictator of Iraq. Rummy looked so happy in the picture. Just twelve days after this visit, Saddam gassed thousands of Iranian troops. Your dad and Rummy seemed pretty happy with the results because ‘The Donald R.’ went back to have another chummy hang-out with Saddam’s right-hand man, Tariq Aziz, just four months later. All of this resulted in the U.S. providing credits and loans to Iraq that enabled Saddam to buy billions of dollars worth of weapons and chemical agents. The Washington Post reported that your dad and Reagan let it be known to their Arab allies that the Reagan/Bush administration wanted Iraq to win its war with Iran and anyone who helped Saddam accomplish this was a friend of ours.

1990: WE HATE SADDAM. In 1990, when Saddam invaded Kuwait, your dad and his defense secretary, Dick Cheney, decided they didn't like Saddam anymore so they attacked Iraq and returned Kuwait to its rightful dictators.

1991: WE WANT SADDAM TO LIVE. After the war, your dad and Cheney and Colin Powell told the Shiites to rise up against Saddam and we would support them. So they rose up. But then we changed our minds. When the Shiites rose up against Saddam, the Bush inner circle changed its mind and decided NOT to help the Shiites. Thus, they were massacred by Saddam.

1998: WE WANT SADDAM TO DIE. In 1998, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and others, as part of the Project for the New American Century, wrote an open letter to President Clinton insisting he invade and topple Saddam Hussein.

2000: WE DON'T BELIEVE IN WAR AND NATION BUILDING. Just three years later, during your debate with Al Gore in the 2000 election, when asked by the moderator Jim Lehrer where you stood when it came to using force for regime change, you turned out to be a downright pacifist:


“I--I would take the use of force very seriously. I would be guarded in my approach. I don't think we can be all things to all people in the world. I think we've got to be very careful when we commit our troops. The vice president [Al Gore] and I have a disagreement about the use of troops. He believes in nation building. I--I would be very careful about using our troops as nation builders. I believe the role of the military is to fight and win war and, therefore, prevent war from happening in the first place. And so I take my--I take my--my responsibility seriously.” --October 3, 2000

2001 (early): WE DON'T BELIEVE SADDAM IS A THREAT. When you took office in 2001, you sent your Secretary of State, Colin Powell, and your National Security Advisor, Condoleezza Rice, in front of the cameras to assure the American people they need not worry about Saddam Hussein. Here is what they said:

Powell: “We should constantly be reviewing our policies, constantly be looking at those sanctions to make sure that they have directed that purpose. That purpose is every bit as important now as it was 10 years ago when we began it. And frankly, they have worked. He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors.” --February 24, 2001

Rice: “But in terms of Saddam Hussein being there, let's remember that his country is divided, in effect. He does not control the northern part of his country. We are able to keep arms from him. His military forces have not been rebuilt.” --July 29, 2001

2001 (late): WE BELIEVE SADDAM IS GOING TO KILL US! Just a few months later, in the hours and days after the 9/11 tragedy, you had no interest in going after Osama bin Laden. You wanted only to bomb Iraq and kill Saddam and you then told all of America we were under imminent threat because weapons of mass destruction were coming our way. You led the American people to believe that Saddam had something to do with Osama and 9/11. Without the UN's sanction, you broke international law and invaded Iraq.

2003: WE DON’T BELIEVE SADDAM IS GOING TO KILL US. After no WMDs were found, you changed your mind about why you said we needed to invade, coming up with a brand new after-the-fact reason -- we started this war so we could have regime change, liberate Iraq and give the Iraqis democracy!

2003: “MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!” Yes, everyone saw you say it -- in costume, no less!

2004: OOPS. MISSION NOT ACCOMPLISHED! Now you call the Iraq invasion a "catastrophic success." That's what you called it this month. Over a thousand U.S. soldiers have died, Iraq is in a state of total chaos where no one is safe, and you have no clue how to get us out of there.

Mr. Bush, please tell us -- when will you change your mind again?

I know you hate the words "flip" and "flop," so I won't use them both on you. In fact, I'll use just one: Flop. That is what you are. A huge, colossal flop. The war is a flop, your advisors and the "intelligence" they gave you is a flop, and now we are all a flop to the rest of the world. Flop. Flop. Flop.

And you have the audacity to criticize John Kerry with what you call the "many positions" he has taken on Iraq. By my count, he has taken only one: He believed you. That was his position. You told him and the rest of congress that Saddam had WMDs. So he -- and the vast majority of Americans, even those who didn't vote for you -- believed you. You see, Americans, like John Kerry, want to live in a country where they can believe their president.

That was the one, single position John Kerry took. He didn't support the war, he supported YOU. And YOU let him and this great country down. And that is why tens of millions can't wait to get to the polls on Election Day -- to remove a major, catastrophic flop from our dear, beloved White House -- to stop all the flipping you and your men have done, flipping us and the rest of the world off.

We can't take another minute of it. "

[amycutthroat]

that aside, in regards to the media implying that WMD was the sole purpose, it was positioned as the Primary purpose, and that aside most media today is biased in many different ways thus allowing ample oppurtunity for any other reasons of high importance to have equal coverage.

[EXTR3MIST]

Hmmm - Kerry's got an awful big face though, hasn't he?

I'm not sure if such an odd looking President would be suitable for World's Most Powerful Man.

[amycutthroat]

Originally posted by EXTR3MIST
Hmmm - Kerry's got an awful big face though, hasn't he?

I'm not sure if such an odd looking President would be suitable for World's Most Powerful Man. I VOTE BASED ON AESTHETICS!

[dantehorrorfan]

what the hell is a democrate and a republican becuase i dont know

[newb]

I'm gonna have to agree on Kerry coming out on top in this debate. I missed the first half hour but from what I did see ,Bush kept on coming back to Kerry's so called inconsistencies. It seemed like that was all he had.IMO
Normally I don't get involved in political threads because of the flame wars that usually follow.
On a lighter note.
Does anyone else see the similarities between Kerry and Treebeard?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v259/rockinmule/KERRY.jpg

[brideofcthulu]

Someone who is a democrat and a republican is some one who is smart enough to admit we're going to be f****d no matter what we do, and honest enough to admit we need a solution no one has

[dantehorrorfan]

oooo uh ok:eek:

[allmykids]

Originally posted by Gothic-chick
The most disturbing thing I heard during the whole debate was when Kerry said the USA should open bilateral talks with North Korea. What the fuck? God help us if that man gets elected.....



George Bush is a great American and Leader! Hopefully he will continue to be our President for the next 4 years........ he's no doubt got my vote again.

Same here!! see I can control myself!!! Yes this subject gets me hot, So I'm going to walk away now!!

[Arioch]

Someone who is a democrat and a republican is some one who is smart enough to admit we're going to be f****d no matter what we do, and honest enough to admit we need a solution no one has

FUCKING A!!!! I cant STAND the bi-party system...and thus, refuse to vote for the "lesser of 2 evils" again....

I think Kerry won the debate, but i dont really care, they are both gonna fuck us (btw you neednt censore your language here my friend) no matter what......the only difference is whether we get lubrication with our raping or not....

[Stingy Jack]

Damn, some pretty long posts here. Gothic-chick is about to overthrow my title! :)

First of all -- The issue as to whether or not Kerry "flip-flops" on his positions is misunderstood by the Republicans. When Kerry voted for tax cuts, he did so because it was the right thing to do at the time, and when he voted against them, it was because it was the right thing to do at that time. Kerry changes his ideas as the politcal/economic environment changes. You vote for tax cuts when the economy needs it, and you vote against them when the economy needs it. This is what Kerry did. Bush, on the other hand, makes one decision and sticks with it ... regardless of whether or not taking a new course of action at some point would be beneficial. The difference between democrats and republicans is that democrats are more willing to adapt to a changing world, whereas the republicans are not (the republicans will probably never allow gay marriages, for example, even though homosexuality has long ago been accepted by the mainstream culture.)

The war in Iraq has been a long time coming, and EVERYONE knew that Dubya wanted to get Saddam Hussein BEFORE Dubya was elected, and not in a small part because his father wanted Hussein when HE was in office and failed to get him. True, Saddam was a threat. True, he should have been removed from power. BUT Saddam had NOTHING to do with the 9/11 attacks and to say that we are going to war with Iraq over terrorism is a lie! Bin Laden was in Afghanistan, not Iraq. Bush used the war on terror to persue his own personal agenda against Saddam, and lied to the American people about his motives (when it was obvious to anyone why he was REALLY invading Iraq).

But, the war was started -- by Bush. And was started messily -- by Bush. But Bush, being the republican he is, won't admit that he made an error, and will keep putting our soldiers in danger and draining our economy just because he's afraid that admitting his mistake would make him look "imcompetent." Republicans, LISTEN UP! Admitting you're wrong is more competent than not admitting you're wrong and keeping us all in a fucked up situation. Get over yourselves and HELP OUR TROOPS

[Arioch]

But, the war was started -- by Bush. And was started messily -- by Bush. But Bush, being the republican he is, won't admit that he made an error, and will keep putting our soldiers in danger and draining our economy just because he's afraid that admitting his mistake would make him look "imcompetent." Republicans, LISTEN UP! Admitting you're wrong is more competent than not admitting you're wrong and keeping us all in a fucked up situation. Get over yourselves and HELP OUR TROOPS

Agreed....thats the number one thing that pisses me off about Bush...he will never admit to the american public, and more importantly, the 9/11 victim's families.....that made me sick...

[Radical Edward]

i didnt get to watch it cuz i was at my friends house studying. they r way conservative

anyway, ill just say this. i mentioned 'oh her name is heinz. haha, thats funny, thats ketchup' and she points out the 'safeway' ketchup they had "yep see, we dont buy heinz"

well i checked it out at home, like DUH they dont only do tomatoes. well in their frigerator they got jack daniels, wesley, about 4 bags of Oreida..... and guess who parents THOSE companies

i love when peopel try and stand for something, make a point, fail to do ANY research, and make complete asses of themselves.

i see her monday, i will bring it up then. i swear, her mom is such a HUGE bush supporter/kerry hater she will burn all those foods the second she finds out.. LOL!

GDIS

[meetthecreeper]

Kerry came off as condescending, being the rich " I know better than you liberal" that he is. Fuck him.

Bush came off as tired and frustrated, I guess being the president isnt all that great of a job. I will give him this, he believes in his heart what he is doing is the right thing to do and doesnt change his ideology based on the political winds. But Fuck him too.

As for Iraq, for the last time the CIA, former KGB, MI6, British intel. the Clinton administration, and most of Congress including Kerry and Edwards thought that Iraq had WMDs. When you get that kind of intel what the hell are you supposed to do??

I know lets wait until a mushroom cloud appears in the middle east and then maybe we can pass another UN resolution right?? Cos' Iraq followed those right? how about another 17 more and maybe something will get done. The Un is nothing more than a paper tiger and couldnt wipe its own ass without the help of the USA.

Lets wait until are kids are face down in the gutter before we tell them about the dangers of using drugs, lets wait until we are HIV positive before using a fucking condom, lets put a loaded gun to our heads and pull the trigger and find out later we shouldnt have done that because why??? it was fucking loaded.

All the dems can do is blame blame blame and have no original ideas of their own and all the republicans can do is deny that mistakes were made. Please tell me how is it we are going it alone when there are 30 other countries that are backing us up??? What is France going to do? throw cheese at the terrorists, I see how well they stood up for themselves during WW2 and Germany, lets appease Hitler good idea. Fuck both of those countries.

We are doing the right thing in Iraq, remember the Kurds??? Do you think Saddam gassed them with fucking kool-aid?? Sooner or later it had to be done, or maybe we should just keep letting terrorists blow up embassy after embassy, barracks after barracks, plane after plane, boat after boat. Appease appease appease.

At least ol Bushie had the balls to do what needed to be done regardless of how unpopular it was.

Flame on muthas!!!!

But before you do that let me say that I am neither Republicrat or Demican, just an independent thinker who is really tired of all this BS.

[Arioch]

What about North Korea and their KNOWN WMD's? No one cares that we arent going over their and doing it to them......:confused: its a pretty big, glaring double standard....

[meetthecreeper]

Good point Arioch, I also wonder why nothing is being done besides CHina stepping in, the way I figure it is

A. Bush felt that by invading Iraq it would be a slam dunk and other countries would step in line, like Libya did, and that would be that, well he was wrong that it would be a slam dunk.

B. The terrorists dont seem to me to be of any Asian decent it seems that most if not all are Arab.

I also think that if we invaded or attacked North Korea, China would defend them and that would turn into a global shitstorm.

[Arioch]

I also think that if we invaded or attacked North Korea, China would defend them and that would turn into a global shitstorm.

Yep....and so we only go after the countries we can pick on and get away with it.....

[meetthecreeper]

What do you expect we're Americans, arrogant as can be. Personally I have had enough of us being the global police department and trying to right every wrong in the world. Some people cant be helped, Somalia for instance, The Balkans, Vietnam, Africa and on and on. Is it right to let all those people be victims of genocide and murder and famine and so on?? NO but we cant fix everything, so who is going to step up to the plate next? Canada??






ANd if I hear how stupid Bush is one more time I am going to vomit, the guy went to an Harvard, last I checked you couldnt get in there if you were stupid. Like we all speak so eliquently. Yea right

[DaBroMain]

Originally posted by Gothic-chick
The most disturbing thing I heard during the whole debate was when Kerry said the USA should open bilateral talks with North Korea. What the fuck? God help us if that man gets elected.....



George Bush is a great American and Leader! Hopefully he will continue to be our President for the next 4 years........ he's no doubt got my vote again.

Agreed... Kerry would fuck this country up sooo bad.. Bush may not be a good public speaker and a jackass when he opens his mouth but fuck i think he is doing a damn good job as pres. Kerry is just a guy who likes to beat around the bush.

[Arioch]

Kerry is just a guy who likes to beat around the bush.

No pun intended right?:p


ANd if I hear how stupid Bush is one more time I am going to vomit, the guy went to an Harvard, last I checked you couldnt get in there if you were stupid. Like we all speak so eliquently. Yea right

One word explains that : $$$$$$$$.....

With the amount of money his family has not only can he get into anywhere he wants, legitimately or not, he can also get out of military duty without going AWOL....

Not saying Kerry is any better, but the only reason we are even talking about both of them at ALL is because they have so much money in the first place.....

Makes the world go round in a fucking sick twisted way....

[friday13thfan]

kerry won no doubt

i could tell he was prebared

bush stutered to much and was no ready for the debate. kerry was fro the ppl bush was for the iraqies. screw bush vote kerry 2004:cool:

[MichaelMyers]

Originally posted by meetthecreeper
ANd if I hear how stupid Bush is one more time I am going to vomit, the guy went to an Harvard, last I checked you couldnt get in there if you were stupid. Like we all speak so eliquently. Yea right

Do you think his dad being a millionaire and President had anything to do with him getting accepted?

[Sam The Egg]

Kerry won, but I've decided to boycot this election due to lack of representation for us Whigs

[meetthecreeper]

Originally posted by MichaelMyers
Do you think his dad being a millionaire and President had anything to do with him getting accepted?

No I dont, Harvard still has a reputation to protect, do you think they would allow Paris Hilton in? Keep underestimating the guy.

Like I said how well do you speak? He sounds like every average Joe that I know.

[Stingy Jack]

Nobody is saying that going to war with Iraq was a bad idea. Not even Kerry. So, I don't know why everyone who defends Bush on this issue uses the argument: "What were we supposed to do? Wait until Sadam blew up the world?" What Kerry is saying (and what the facts point to) is 1.) Bush misled the American people on his motives for going to war with Iraq. 2.) Bush rushed into the war without UN support, without a plan to win the peace, and with troops who were/are seriously lacking in combat defenses. The result is that America has 90% of the casualties and is paying 90% of the cost of the war. We have also discovered that we have basically had to occupy the area in our rush to spread democracy.

Kerry voted for the war, because overthrowing Sadam Hussein was a good idea. However, he did NOT vote that Bush handle the war the way he has. It's not like Kerry is saying: "Good war/Bad war". The war was a good idea, but it is bad because Bush did not initiate it correctly and we now have a huge mess on our hands.

What I would like to know is: Why do people LIKE Bush? What is it about him that is so great? I personally cannot think of a single thing he has done for us here at home since he has been in office. So, I don't see why everyone is so star-struck by this bastard.

[Radical Edward]

Originally posted by Stingy Jack
What I would like to know is: Why do people LIKE Bush? What is it about him that is so great?

easy. he represents everything all american.....

*wonders if bush uses heinz ketchup on his fries*

GDIS

[Hate_Breeder]

Kerry. And im proud :D

[Sistinas]

George Carlin would have verbally destroyed both of them, he has my vote.

[yourlastmistake]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Stingy Jack
2.) Bush rushed into the war without UN support, without a plan to win the peace, and with troops who were/are seriously lacking in combat defenses.

You better check your facts their Stingy. Your boy Kerry has voted down every legislation that was meant to fund the military.
In every way ,shape,and form. I'll gladly post all of the facts, if you would like.

[yourlastmistake]

Here are just a few:
1) In 1993 he voted to cut missle defense funding by $400 million.

2) In 1994 he voted to cut missle defense funding even more-by
$513 million.

3) In 1995, he voted to freeze defense spending for 7 years, slashing $34 billion from Defense Dept. funding.

4) He voted against an $11 billion military construction bill, which included $4.3 billion for military housing.

5) He voted to cut funding for B-2 bombers.

6) He voted again to slash another $300 million from missle defense research and development.

Man... I could go on and on if you want. Not to mention all the military upgrades he has opposed. Like replaceing the B-52 with the stealth bomber. Replacing the Poseidon SLBM ( submarine-launched ballistic missile) with the Trident 1 or 2.
Just think of what those soldiers would be going through if Kerry would have had his way. Oh, I also forgot about his wanting to cut $777 million in National Guard and Reserve equipment.

It's clear he is no friend of the fighting man. I think Zell is right...
if Kerry had his way we would be fighting this war with spitballs.

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by Sistinas
George Carlin would have verbally destroyed both of them, he has my vote.

Please. If we compared them to Carlin then nobody would vote for them. We all have to lower our standards sometimes

[yourlastmistake]

What is John Kerrys plan for peace in Iraq Stingy? How would he have handled things differently, that would included UN support?
He has never once stated how he would have achieved these things. Just that he would have. Talk is cheap. Remember that.

[Sistinas]

I admire the fact that Bush raised our troops salary.I think they are underpaid and underappreciated.

[yourlastmistake]

China would defend North Korea? I doubt that. China is worried about no one but themselves. Last I heard, they were getting pretty tired of KIM Chong-il and his shit.

[yourlastmistake]

Originally posted by Sistinas
I admire the fact that Bush raised our troops salary.I think they are underpaid and underappreciated.

I admire Sistinas.:D

[AmarylandPsycho]

To say Kerry won the debates is one thing...To think that rhetoric and debating will help in making you the right choice for president is insane. What Im looking for in a leader is someone who stands by their word. A person who won't be pressured to change his opinion by the worlds opinion of his/her actions. I was thinking last night that this is what makes this country sooo great that the President and his opposition can debate and campaign and we the people will vote and decide who will be our represenitive to the world will be. This is why I believe we need to be the aggressors for democracy. Will it be easy? NO. Is it right for everyone to have the basic God given rights of Life Liberty and Property? Yes. Its for these reason that Bush remains the horse im backing. No amount of debate and discussion can persuade me to vote for a person who doesn't have the same beliefs I do.

[vampire queen]

Kerry definatley. Bush was stumbling all over himself, and all he could come up with was how a commander-in-cheif is supposed to act, and sounded a whole lot like a broken record. Bush has done nothing for us here at home in his four years...we are just as likely, if not MORE likely to be attacked by WMD,we can pretty much kiss social security goodbye.....I could go on and on...don't even get me started on heath care.
Bush went to Iraq for his own reasons, instead of going after the man who was the biggest threat to US at the time, he went after Saddam. Then when he did track down Bin Laden, instead of sending a special op to kill him, he hires the job out to war lords who were on the other side a week before, and convienently, he escaped.



As far as how stupid Bush is.....yes, he did go to Harvard, and he is a very BOOKSMART man, he lacks a whole lot in the common scense department though, and that comes in very handy quite more often than booksmarts. I feel that who ever is the spokesman for our country, who ever sits down with the leaders of other countries, should at least talk like they are a Harvard grad.


That's just my opinion......

[vampire queen]

I really don't care how Kerry would have handeled the invasion of Iraq..it doesn't matter because it cannot be undone, all anyone can do is clean it up...Bush has had ample time to make progress and get some of our boys home, he hasn't done it, and we are now facing the very real possiblity of starting the draft. All I can say is, Bush didn't do anything.....I'm ready for someone else to try. Alot of my beliefs are shared by Bush, but it seems that's how he got elected the first time.......he says he has these beliefs, but in office, he seems to forget them.

[MichaelMyers]

Originally posted by AmarylandPsycho
Is it right for everyone to have the basic God given rights of Life Liberty and Property? Yes. Its for these reason that Bush remains the horse im backing. No amount of debate and discussion can persuade me to vote for a person who doesn't have the same beliefs I do.

Very eloquent, no doubt, but is it true? If "life, liberty, and property" was a "God given right", it would be far more universal than it is or ever has been, and other cultures would be far more receptive to it than they are. The truth is that "democracy" and "liberty" as most in the West understand them have flourished only in the West and only in fairly recent eras.

What that means is that attempts to implant, spread or enforce democracy where it has no historical roots and doesn't belong will not only fail but will most likely create chaos and eventually tyranny—which is why such policies are a dangerous idea.

[Sistinas]

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose.......

[george]

i cant say??? i didnt watch it! i was pissed because they didnt show CSI. i personally think bush and kerry should have some sicklovechild, then we'd have the almost perfect, akward looking president. ;)

[vampire queen]

Originally posted by Sistinas
Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose.......
Me and my Bobbie McGee......




:D

[Radical Edward]

Originally posted by Sistinas
I admire the fact that Bush raised our troops salary.I think they are underpaid and underappreciated.

i have a special boy in iraq serving right now. hes gets $20 extra, a month. thats like... a DVD! WOWE!

higher officials are paid much more obviosuly, but who are the ones in the line of fire? grunts...

$20... please

GDIS

[Sistinas]

Originally posted by Radical Edward
i have a special boy in iraq serving right now. hes gets $20 extra, a month. thats like... a DVD! WOWE!

higher officials are paid much more obviosuly, but who are the ones in the line of fire? grunts...

$20... please

GDIS



I dont mean getting more because they are in a battlezone.:rolleyes: I mean every soldiers base pay, at home or abroad.

[MichaelMyers]

Bush's debate Notepad.

http://www.thetalentshow.org/images/bush_rules_1.jpg

[dantehorrorfan]

dude.........:rolleyes:

[Sistinas]

Originally posted by MichaelMyers
Bush's debate Notepad.

http://www.thetalentshow.org/images/bush_rules_1.jpg


I am a Bush supporter, but I think that was funny as hell!:D

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by yourlastmistake
Here are just a few:
1) In 1993 he voted to cut missle defense funding by $400 million.

2) In 1994 he voted to cut missle defense funding even more-by
$513 million.

3) In 1995, he voted to freeze defense spending for 7 years, slashing $34 billion from Defense Dept. funding.

4) He voted against an $11 billion military construction bill, which included $4.3 billion for military housing.

5) He voted to cut funding for B-2 bombers.

6) He voted again to slash another $300 million from missle defense research and development.

Man... I could go on and on if you want. Not to mention all the military upgrades he has opposed. Like replaceing the B-52 with the stealth bomber. Replacing the Poseidon SLBM ( submarine-launched ballistic missile) with the Trident 1 or 2.
Just think of what those soldiers would be going through if Kerry would have had his way. Oh, I also forgot about his wanting to cut $777 million in National Guard and Reserve equipment.

It's clear he is no friend of the fighting man. I think Zell is right...
if Kerry had his way we would be fighting this war with spitballs.

Your facts say nothing other than that Kerry voted against military spending when we were at a time of peace and trying to pull our national debt out of the huge-ass hole Bush Sr. sent us whirling into. What, exactly, were you trying to prove with these numbers?

And if you want to analyze Kerry's plan for fixing Bush's mess, go to www.johnkerry.com. There is an outline of his plan there for anyone who wants to access it. Here is some of what is there:

Today, we face three great challenges above all others - First, to win the global war against terror; Second, to stop the spread of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons; Third, to promote democracy, freedom, and opportunity around the world, starting by winning the peace in Iraq. To meet these challenges, John Kerry's national security policy will be guided by four imperatives:

Launch And Lead A New Era Of Alliances:
The threat of terrorism demands alliances on a global scale - to utilize every available resource to get the terrorists before they can strike at us. As president, John Kerry will lead a coalition of the able - because no force on earth is more able than the United States and its allies.


Modernize The World's Most Powerful Military To Meet New Threats:
John Kerry and John Edwards have a plan to transform the world's most powerful military to better address the modern threats of terrorism and proliferation, while ensuring that we have enough properly trained and equipped troops to meet our enduring strategic and regional missions.


Deploy All That Is In America's Arsenal:
The war on terror cannot be won by military might alone. As president, John Kerry will deploy all the forces in America's arsenal - our diplomacy, our intelligence system, our economic power, and the appeal of our values and ideas - to make America more secure and prevent a new generation of terrorists from emerging.


Free America From Its Dangerous Dependence On Mideast Oil:
To secure our full independence and freedom, we must free America from its dangerous dependence on Mideast oil. By tapping American ingenuity, we can achieve that goal while growing our economy and protecting our environment.

[amycutthroat]

Originally posted by Sistinas
Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose.......
Nothing, that's all that Bobby left me

[Radical Edward]

Originally posted by Sistinas
I dont mean getting more because they are in a battlezone.:rolleyes: I mean every soldiers base pay, at home or abroad.

which is exactly all he gets.... $20 extra. whether on field or off.. thats it.. $20. oh but wait, once he gets back to the US that $20, along with his regular pay, will be taxed (tax free right now in iraq). so he'll make slightly less.

then again, this just may be the situation with MY soldier.........

GDIS

[thepsychicfetus]

i think bush is an ass, and he should die

[Sam The Egg]

he will eventually, don't worry

[DaBroMain]

Originally posted by yourlastmistake
Here are just a few:
1) In 1993 he voted to cut missle defense funding by $400 million.

2) In 1994 he voted to cut missle defense funding even more-by
$513 million.

3) In 1995, he voted to freeze defense spending for 7 years, slashing $34 billion from Defense Dept. funding.

4) He voted against an $11 billion military construction bill, which included $4.3 billion for military housing.

5) He voted to cut funding for B-2 bombers.

6) He voted again to slash another $300 million from missle defense research and development.

Man... I could go on and on if you want. Not to mention all the military upgrades he has opposed. Like replaceing the B-52 with the stealth bomber. Replacing the Poseidon SLBM ( submarine-launched ballistic missile) with the Trident 1 or 2.
Just think of what those soldiers would be going through if Kerry would have had his way. Oh, I also forgot about his wanting to cut $777 million in National Guard and Reserve equipment.

It's clear he is no friend of the fighting man. I think Zell is right...
if Kerry had his way we would be fighting this war with spitballs.
No shit kerry is a pussy. And god help us if a pussy ran the US we would have all kinds of countries. Big and Small walking all over us..... We are a fucking super power and being a super power we have to use our intimidation on someone. if not then everyone and there momas would try what the japenese tryed at pearl harbor. and that is the last thing we want.....:D :D

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by dantehorrorfan
what the hell is a democrate and a republican becuase i dont know


Maybe this scenario will help you understand.....


A Republican and a Democrat were walking down the street when they came to a homeless person.


The Republican gave the homeless person his business card, and told him to come to the business for a job. He then took out $20 and gave it to the homeless person.


The Democrat was very impressed, and when they came to another homeless person, he decided to help.

He walked over to the homeless person and gave him directions to the welfare office. He then reached into the Republican's pocket and got out $20. He kept $15 for administrative fees and gave the homeless person $5.

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by Arioch
What about North Korea and their KNOWN WMD's? No one cares that we arent going over their and doing it to them......:confused: its a pretty big, glaring double standard....

China should handle it and probably will eventually.

[thepsychicfetus]

N. korea is a retarded country. china would kill them quickly, and should, as soon as possible, to get it off americas agenda

[meetthecreeper]

Originally posted by Gothic-chick
Maybe this scenario will help you understand.....


A Republican and a Democrat were walking down the street when they came to a homeless person.


The Republican gave the homeless person his business card, and told him to come to the business for a job. He then took out $20 and gave it to the homeless person.


The Democrat was very impressed, and when they came to another homeless person, he decided to help.

He walked over to the homeless person and gave him directions to the welfare office. He then reached into the Republican's pocket and got out $20. He kept $15 for administrative fees and gave the homeless person $5.

Too true LOL

Yeah Stingy Kerry agreed with the war or wait he didnt or wait he did or wait he didnt or he did or well I was in Vietnam and Cambodia or I wasnt well I thought I was or no I wasnt no wait I got 3 purple hearts or was it 4, was I in Vietnam yes or no I wasnt I dont remember for 4 months and I filmed it all but not for any political gain in the future or I did or I didnt, and I didnt reinact anything ir I did but I didnt. I personally committed atrocities or I didnt but I thought I did or well it benefitted me at the time.

Wrong war wrong place wrong time yeah he supports it until he pisses off the Howard Dean base and then he doesnt give me a break
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[MichaelMyers]

Originally posted by DaBroMain
No shit kerry is a pussy.

Kerry went to Vietnam, commanded a Swift boat, saved lives, and earned a silver star and purple heart.

Bush went to Yale and commanded the cheerleading squad.

Pot meet kettle.

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by Stingy Jack
Your facts say nothing other than that Kerry voted against military spending when we were at a time of peace and trying to pull our national debt out of the huge-ass hole Bush Sr. sent us whirling into.


WTF?? When are we supposed increase military spending? During war time when it's too late? Peace time IS THE TIME TO DO IT !!!!!



wake the fuck up man!

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by meetthecreeper
Too true LOL

Yeah Stingy Kerry agreed with the war or wait he didnt or wait he did or wait he didnt or he did or well I was in Vietnam and Cambodia or I wasnt well I thought I was or no I wasnt no wait I got 3 purple hearts or was it 4, was I in Vietnam yes or no I wasnt I dont remember for 4 months and I filmed it all but not for any political gain in the future or I did or I didnt, and I didnt reinact anything ir I did but I didnt. I personally committed atrocities or I didnt but I thought I did or well it benefitted me at the time.

Wrong war wrong place wrong time yeah he supports it until he pisses off the Howard Dean base and then he doesnt give me a break
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:



now that was funny!

[meetthecreeper]

Originally posted by MichaelMyers
Kerry went to Vietnam, commanded a Swift boat, saved lives, and earned a silver star and purple heart.

Bush went to Yale and commanded the cheerleading squad.

Pot meet kettle.

What the Hell does that have to do with it, Kerry is the one who comes back from Vietnam and then proceeds to turn his back on his fellow soldiers. I didnt see Bush doing that. Here comes the "He was AWOL in the national guard" have you ever been in the military? This has never been proven except by Dan Rather:rolleyes:

And let me say this one more time for the sake of those who havent been paying attention, I am not a Bush supporter, nor a Kerry supporter, but I am a little sick and tired of these politcians saying one thing and doing another aka Kerry and the fact that he runs away from his 20 year record in the senate. The guy is anti military, anti gun, and pro big government and pro more taxes.

I base my vote on 2 things leave my money and my guns alone, with those 2 things in place I can live my life the way that I want.

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by MichaelMyers
Kerry went to Vietnam, commanded a Swift boat, saved lives, and earned a silver star and purple heart.

Bush went to Yale and commanded the cheerleading squad.

Pot meet kettle.




Actually Kerry was commander of 2 swift boats in the Mekong Delta in Vietnam, and earned a silver star, bronze star with "V" decoration , and 3 purple hearts for wounds in battle.

Bush was in the National Guard and volunteered to go to Vietnam but was turned down because he didn't have enough flight time as a combat pilot in the F-102 interceptor, which he flew for the Texas National Guard.

In 1992 when Clinton was running and receiving criticism for dodging the draft and then later lying about it Kerry defended Clinton , saying service during the war shouldn't matter. From the senate floor he complained Vietnam had been inserted into the campaign.

When Kerry began HIS campaign for president, suddenly Vietnam service became important for presidential platforms.

ALL military service is commendable , that includes National Guard service as well as peace time soldiers.

Kerry has been exploiting his service for political gain since he requested an early release to pursue anti-war politics.

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by meetthecreeper
What the Hell does that have to do with it, Kerry is the one who comes back from Vietnam and then proceeds to turn his back on his fellow soldiers. I didnt see Bush doing that. Here comes the "He was AWOL in the national guard" have you ever been in the military? This has never been proven except by Dan Rather:rolleyes:

And let me say this one more time for the sake of those who havent been paying attention, I am not a Bush supporter, nor a Kerry supporter, but I am a little sick and tired of these politcians saying one thing and doing another aka Kerry and the fact that he runs away from his 20 year record in the senate. The guy is anti military, anti gun, and pro big government and pro more taxes.

I base my vote on 2 things leave my money and my guns alone, with those 2 things in place I can live my life the way that I want.


I hear ya man! Bravo!

[meetthecreeper]

Originally posted by Gothic-chick
Actually Kerry was commander of 2 swift boats in the Mekong Delta in Vietnam, and earned a silver star, bronze star with "V" decoration , and 3 purple hearts for wounds in battle.

Bush was in the National Guard and volunteered to go to Vietnam but was turned down because he didn't have enough flight time as a combat pilot in the F-102 interceptor, which he flew for the Texas National Guard.

In 1992 when Clinton was running and receiving criticism for dodging the draft and then later lying about it Kerry defended Clinton , saying service during the war shouldn't matter. From the senate floor he complained Vietnam had been inserted into the campaign.

When Kerry began HIS campaign for president, suddenly Vietnam service became important for presidential platforms.

ALL military service is commendable , that includes National Guard service as well as peace time soldiers.

Kerry has been exploiting his service for political gain since he requested an early release to pursue anti-war politics.

Couldnt agree more, I also happen to believe that the reason why Kerry went to Vietnam in the first place was for political gain in the future. I have never heard of anyone reinacting what they did in a war and running around with a video camera doing what he did disgusts me.

I remember him defending Clinton typical politcian, whenever the winds change so does his position.

Like a fish flip flop flip flop

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by meetthecreeper
Couldnt agree more, I also happen to believe that the reason why Kerry went to Vietnam in the first place was for political gain in the future. I have never heard of anyone reinacting what they did in a war and running around with a video camera doing what he did disgusts me.

I remember him defending Clinton typical politcian, whenever the winds change so does his position.

Like a fish flip flop flip flop



yeah the guy is an opportunist to say the least, even his shipmates said so.

Kerry puts his military service on a pedestal while insulting hundreds of thousands of National Guards.

Airforce Reserve units have participated in nearly every conflict fought by the US since WWI.

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by amycutthroat
per michael moore who i don't necessarily like, but he has made some good points here:. "


Well if Michael Moore said it, it must be true! PLEASE!


That guy is a total fucking asshole! When thinking of him, my level of "pissedoffness" raises to the stuck in 2 hours of traffic bar.

[Radical Edward]

funny how people wont even give it a chance, just because its michael moore

whether or not you want to believe it, he DOES bring up good points. many of which are bi-partisan

"we are a nation based on fear. turn to the local newstation and you hear account after account of child abduction. yet child abduction rates have actually gone down in the past decades"

^^^ so whats wrong with sayin that? shit....

you guys get mad at people who say 'BUSH SUCKS AND DID NOTHING GOOD FOR AMERICA!" when in reality, yes he did. the amount is disputed, but he did do some good things. you michael moore dissers are just as bad as the Bush ones. me? i try and take everything for what it is. singularly, im not gonna base Bush off of one event, same with moore, oreilly, etc...

GDIS

[MichaelMyers]

Originally posted by Gothic-chick
Actually Kerry was commander of 2 swift boats in the Mekong Delta in Vietnam, and earned a silver star, bronze star with "V" decoration , and 3 purple hearts for wounds in battle.

Bush was in the National Guard and volunteered to go to Vietnam but was turned down because he didn't have enough flight time as a combat pilot in the F-102 interceptor, which he flew for the Texas National Guard.

In 1992 when Clinton was running and receiving criticism for dodging the draft and then later lying about it Kerry defended Clinton , saying service during the war shouldn't matter. From the senate floor he complained Vietnam had been inserted into the campaign.

When Kerry began HIS campaign for president, suddenly Vietnam service became important for presidential platforms.

ALL military service is commendable , that includes National Guard service as well as peace time soldiers.

Kerry has been exploiting his service for political gain since he requested an early release to pursue anti-war politics.

The bottom line is Kerry went to war in Vietnam, and Bush stayed in Texas.

I don't really care if he's running on his war record or not. The assertion was made that he was a "pussy". Personally, I would much rather be in the trenches with Kerry than George Bush.

I think a civil conversation could be had without any name-calling.

[Radical Edward]

Originally posted by MichaelMyers
I think a civil conversation could be had without any name-calling.

if u r referring to gothic chic, she resorted to that sort of thing in an abortion debate a while back. which is why i tend to keep away from her

GDIS

[AmarylandPsycho]

Originally posted by MichaelMyers
Very eloquent, no doubt, but is it true? If "life, liberty, and property" was a "God given right", it would be far more universal than it is or ever has been, and other cultures would be far more receptive to it than they are. The truth is that "democracy" and "liberty" as most in the West understand them have flourished only in the West and only in fairly recent eras.

What that means is that attempts to implant, spread or enforce democracy where it has no historical roots and doesn't belong will not only fail but will most likely create chaos and eventually tyranny—which is why such policies are a dangerous idea.
If life, freedom and property are not from God then where could they come from? For me, My faith in God is what lets me know that these are rights everyone is entitled to. Now what political system allows people to experience these freedoms is no concern of mine just that they are allowed to have them. In my belief we as humans should not impede anothers availibility to experience these rights. But it is God creation and at any time he may ask us to endure slavery, hardship, and even death.

[yourlastmistake]

Originally posted by Radical Edward
if u r referring to gothic chic, she resorted to that sort of thing in an abortion debate a while back. which is why i tend to keep away from her

GDIS


I don't see where Gothic-chick called anybody a name in this thread other than Michael Moore. What are you trying to do Fluffho? Stir up more trouble?









You better recheck yourself.

[Radical Edward]

1) myers response, including that statement regarding name-calling, were in response to GC's

2) i first met GC during an abortion debate, where she called anyone who believed in abortions all sorts of names....

3) i added 'if u are refering" on the chance that he wasnt talking to her. then even explained #2

4) i didnt stir up the trouble. it was Je. i only added slightly to it (must i explain myself a 5th time... rather not).

so you were saying?

GDIS

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by Radical Edward
if u r referring to gothic chic, she resorted to that sort of thing in an abortion debate a while back. which is why i tend to keep away from her

GDIS




I tend to stay away from you too because you have nothing to say that's of any value to me....


GDYNS !!!!

[Radical Edward]

Originally posted by Gothic-chick
I tend to stay away from you too because you have nothing to say that's of any value to me....


GDYNS !!!!

that is quite a come back......

although i must say i DO commend you on you accurate explanation of the whole .. 'situation'.. for lack of a better term. u had just about 97% of it correct....

GDIS

[yourlastmistake]

Originally posted by Radical Edward
1) myers response, including that statement regarding name-calling, were in response to GC's

2) i first met GC during an abortion debate, where she called anyone who believed in abortions all sorts of names....

3) i added 'if u are refering" on the chance that he wasnt talking to her. then even explained #2

4) i didnt stir up the trouble. it was Je. i only added slightly to it (must i explain myself a 5th time... rather not).

so you were saying?

GDIS

I'm saying..... She called no one a name in THIS thread other than Moore. Why do you feel the need to call her out about another thread in this thread? Unless.... your trying to start something?







As you were saying?

[yourlastmistake]

What's that at the bottom of your page? Looks like your calling everyone a bitch?














As you were saying?

[Radical Edward]

1) #3 from ^^^

2) take a chill pill...... i call everyone bitches.

GDIS

[Angelakillsluts]

Neither of them. And one of these men has to be our president? errr *shoots self

Oh well... ABB.

[Radical Edward]

Originally posted by Angelakillsluts
Neither of them. And one of these men has to be our president? errr *shoots self

Oh well... ABB

so this is what im wondering.. for those who would rather NOT to see any of these guys,.... it seems that they'd go the ABB route. but is there anyone going the other way? or anyone essentialy, throwing away thier vote, either by not voting or just going for nader??

mtv did a special on it, on college campuses and pretty much all of em who didnt care for either, were going ABB

GDIS

[Tubalcain]

first, and this really cracks me up, why is it that bush only has to say"9/11", and everybody forgets 90% of the last four years? not 9/11 mind you, that was horrible, and personally i would have turned the middle-east into the largest parking lot in the world. not just iraq, or afganistan, but every fu***ng country there. but what i'm saying is, i know bush had his hands full, and that there was smoke boiling out of those huge ears. not from anger, mind you, but from the effort that it took for him to think up an option. but he still needed to try and furfill some of his promises that he made, unless he never intended to in the first place. nevertheless, he did manage to do a few things before 9/11. lets take a look at some of his accomplishments. in his first few months in office, bush managed to
1.cut $35 million in funding for advanced pediactric training for doctors.
2. cut funding for research into renewable energy sources by 50%
3. delayed rules that would reduce "acceptable" levels of arsenic in drinking water.
4.cut funding for research into cleaner, more feul efficient cars and trucks by 28%
5.allowed sec. of interior gale norton to request suggestions for opening national monuments for forresting,coal mining, and oil and gas drilling.
6.reduced by 86% the community access program which coordinated care for people without health insurance among public hospitals, clinics, and other health care providers.
7.cut funding for the girls and boys clubs of america programs in public housing by 60 million.
8.cut 200 million from workforce training programs for dislocated workers
9.cut 200 million from the childcare and development grant, a program that provides child care to low income families.
10.eliminated prescription contraceptive coverage to federal employees.
11.cut 700 million in funds for public housing repairs.
12.cot 500 million dollars from the epa budget.
13.announced plans for oil drilling in louis and clark nat. forrest in montana.
14denied college financial aid for students convicted of misdemeanor drug charges, though convicted murderers are still eligible.
15. cut 15.7 mill from programs dealing with child abuse and neglect.
etc.,etc........the list goes and on, just tired of typing, sorry.
and if you can honestly say that none of these things effect you or someone you know, i would like to shake your hand, because you are really lucky. because there are millions of people that it does affect. we need to wake up people, whether bush cuts all the taxes or not, we are still going to have to pay for this war, one way or another.

[MichaelMyers]

Originally posted by Radical Edward
so this is what im wondering.. for those who would rather NOT to see any of these guys,.... it seems that they'd go the ABB route. but is there anyone going the other way? or anyone essentialy, throwing away thier vote, either by not voting or just going for nader??

mtv did a special on it, on college campuses and pretty much all of em who didnt care for either, were going ABB

GDIS

For me, Kerry just sucks less.

[Tubalcain]

and i'll tell you something else, i never had a problem finding a job during clintons term. as for bush, well.....i cant say the same.

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by Tubalcain
and i'll tell you something else, i never had a problem finding a job during clintons term. as for bush, well.....i cant say the same.

Agreed here. This is a good opportunity to point out a difference between republicans and democrats:

Mississippi's governor (Haley Barbour) is a republican. And, in typical republican fashion, he decided that he would save the state some money by laying off over 1000 of the state's public school teachers (of which I am one). Luckily, our district managed to scrape up enough funds to avoid losing any of our teachers, but many districts in the state were not so lucky. Where did the saved money go? Most of it went into the pockets of the university professors and administrators. Republicans have no problem dicking over the poor in order to benefit the wealthy.

Just like our Commander-in-Cheif who went and gave the wealthy in America (Bush and his cronies) a nice tax cut. This money could have been used to help fund this misbegotten war ... but to republicans, politics and big business are one in the same.

Gothic-chick asked the question: "When should we INCREASE military spending? When we're at a time of war and it's too late?" shortly before she proceeded to tactfully request that I "wake the fuck up."

Kerry voted to decrease military spending during the Clinton administration, in the years following the Gulf War when our nation's debt was the worst it has ever been. The Clinton administration not only paid off the debt, but created an economic surplus, which Dubya has not only elminated, but he has also brought us back into the hole that his daddy dug.

Yes, you increase military spending when you are in a time of war, and will not be "too late" when you do so. You sound as if decreasing military spending to help get us out of debt is synonymous with saying "eliminate the military altogether." You decrease the spending when you already have a military that is so over-prepared to go into war that it isn't funny, and when you have a multi-billion dollar national debt. If a short-term war appears, you fight it and increase the spending to make up the losses. If a long-term war appears, you fight it and increase the spending as the war rages on. Decreasing the spending is not going to cause us to lose what we already have.

As for Micheal Moore, I just watched Farenheit 9/11 last night. I agree that this particular documentarian does not present his material without a heap of biases, but the evidence he presents in that film should be startling to ANYONE who watches it (except the Bush administration, who tried to hide this evidence). Even if you don't believe Moore's interpretation of the evidence, you would be hard-pressed to take it on yourself to use this evidence to show that Bush actually had this nation's interest in mind when he took us to war with Iraq.

[yourlastmistake]

Stingy, I got a tax cut. I didn't know I was one of Bush's cronies.

One of my biggest problems with Kerry is the fact that he wants to put our military under the control of foreign govt. when dealing with an issue outside of the U.S.A. Under UN control. I just cannot accept that.

The UN is one big joke. Its obvious they are in control of nothing. The situation in Darfur is a good example. The Sudan govt. and arabic militia are commiting acts of genocide. Killing people of African descent. The UN provides the refugees a so called safehaven(camp). A group of Janjaweed milita come in during the night and slaughter hundreds of women and children. What does the UN force at the camp do.... they stand around and watch and
after its over, they decide they need to have discussion about how to handle something like this in the future. What a joke the UN is.

As far as military funding during peace time. Lets look at military advancements. Kerry didn't want to fund the Stealth program. A technilogically advanced plane that would faze out the B-1 and B-2. If Kerry would have had his way we would be making bombing runs with outdated aircraft. Remember World War 2? We would just have to lay waste to whole cities and towns instead of lazer guided bombs that can hit precise targets in the middle of a city.
I wonder what the body count for innocents would be if we were still using outdated weaponary if Kerry would have had his way.

Stingy, quit crying about the poor. The way I see it people are poor because they want to be. This is America... the land of opportunity. The poor should quit crying about being poor and get off their asses and work harder and strive for more. Instead of expecting a hand out from the govt. I have no sympathy for them. I expect no one to take care of me but myself.

Maybe if Kerry gets in office he can take care of the poor and the rich and middle class can pay for it. If you think only the rich will be taxed under Kerrys administration your fooling yourself.

[meetthecreeper]

Why is it that democrats always fall back on the class wafair argument, tax cuts for the rich, homeless in the streets, blacks hanging from trees, forcing the elderly to eat dog food so they can get their prescriptions. Then accuse the Bush adminstration of using scare tactics to get votes, the democrats have been doing that for as long as I can remember.

Al Gore paraphrased-I met Mrs. JaneQPublic who had to drove across the country in her Winnebago to see me here before this debate, she told me she had to pick up aluminum cans along the way to help pay for her prescription drugs.-HELLO ASSHEAD, Do you know what kind of gas mileage a motorhome gets???? Do you know what the average motorhome costs??? Sell your damn RV so you can afford your prescription drugs jackass.

This country has turned into such an entitlement society it makes me want to vomit. I bust my ass and so does my lady to make a decent living, and I got a tax cut and by John Kerrys thinking I am part of the richest 1 percent???? Really I didnt know that, I dont see a Ferrari parked in my driveway, I dont see a rolex on my wrist, I dont live in a mansion. I started out living on the street at 17 and worked my tail off to get there, the only people I have to thank are myself and the Gods for giving me the strength to deal with it all.

Yea I feel sorry for some of the homeless and poor, the ones that cant help themselves but I dont feel sorry for the inner city folk who are able bodied and sit on welfare their whole lives, popping out babies so they can get an increase in their welfare checks, meanwhile they run around with $90 air jordan shoes, 300 dollar starter jackets and bling bling spinners on their fucking cars.

Do you know how much I give to charity every year?? In the thousands of dollars, in clothing, food drives, toys for tots, and cash money. I try to make a difference in my community to help the people there. So I dont want to hear anymore bullshit about how conservatives, note I didnt say republicans, are all for fucking over the poor to benefit the rich.

People need a hand up not a hand out, the job of the democratic party is to keep the minorities down and disenfranchised so they will keep so they will keep voting for them. I have to talked to some minorities who have finally come to the realization that the democrats havent done a damn thing for them since the civil war.

Al Sharpton said it best, they bring us to the dance but leave with someone else.

[Stingy Jack]

Both of you got a tax cut? I didn't get a tax cut, and my wife and I work our asses off. I went to college to become a school teacher, and my wife manages a branch of a nation-wide franchise. We got a check in the middle of the year that we had to pay back when tax season rolled around.

And both of you also seem to still live under the delusion of The American Dream -- that if you work hard enough, you can have anything you want. That's bullshit. I don't think I need to explain the trickle-down theory of economics to either one of you, but the fact is that 90% of the wealth in this nation is held (and held tightly) by 5% of the population. If I grew up in a elite household, perhaps I would have had a chance. My parents would have been able to afford to send me to a private school, and the university of my choosing. As it was, I had to pay my own way through a state college. Statistics show that, in this country, you basically end up where your parents left off. Sure, there are exceptions, but if you take the idea that "if you work hard, you can be rich, too" to its logical conclusion, you'll see the fault in it. Let's say that EVERYONE works hard, tries their hardest to make it rich. Do you honestly think EVERYONE will share all the wealth? Hell no. The rich stay rich and the poor stay poor, for the most part.

So, you both got a tax cut. Must be nice to have a president that looks out for you folks in your tax bracket. No wonder you stick up for him so vehemently.

[EXTR3MIST]

A horse would do a double-take at the Kerry physiogamy.

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by meetthecreeper
Why is it that democrats always fall back on the class wafair argument, tax cuts for the rich, homeless in the streets, blacks hanging from trees, forcing the elderly to eat dog food so they can get their prescriptions. Then accuse the Bush adminstration of using scare tactics to get votes, the democrats have been doing that for as long as I can remember.

Al Gore paraphrased-I met Mrs. JaneQPublic who had to drove across the country in her Winnebago to see me here before this debate, she told me she had to pick up aluminum cans along the way to help pay for her prescription drugs.-HELLO ASSHEAD, Do you know what kind of gas mileage a motorhome gets???? Do you know what the average motorhome costs??? Sell your damn RV so you can afford your prescription drugs jackass.

This country has turned into such an entitlement society it makes me want to vomit. I bust my ass and so does my lady to make a decent living, and I got a tax cut and by John Kerrys thinking I am part of the richest 1 percent???? Really I didnt know that, I dont see a Ferrari parked in my driveway, I dont see a rolex on my wrist, I dont live in a mansion. I started out living on the street at 17 and worked my tail off to get there, the only people I have to thank are myself and the Gods for giving me the strength to deal with it all.

Yea I feel sorry for some of the homeless and poor, the ones that cant help themselves but I dont feel sorry for the inner city folk who are able bodied and sit on welfare their whole lives, popping out babies so they can get an increase in their welfare checks, meanwhile they run around with $90 air jordan shoes, 300 dollar starter jackets and bling bling spinners on their fucking cars.

Do you know how much I give to charity every year?? In the thousands of dollars, in clothing, food drives, toys for tots, and cash money. I try to make a difference in my community to help the people there. So I dont want to hear anymore bullshit about how conservatives, note I didnt say republicans, are all for fucking over the poor to benefit the rich.

People need a hand up not a hand out, the job of the democratic party is to keep the minorities down and disenfranchised so they will keep so they will keep voting for them. I have to talked to some minorities who have finally come to the realization that the democrats havent done a damn thing for them since the civil war.

Al Sharpton said it best, they bring us to the dance but leave with someone else.





I love this man! :)

[Arioch]

I know this is a heated topic....but please keep your comments directed towards the politicians and the issues, not towards the members of this board....

Not only will that convince no one of your own position, it further degrades your argumentive technique.....and makes you look childish....

[yourlastmistake]

Originally posted by Stingy Jack
So, you both got a tax cut. Must be nice to have a president that looks out for you folks in your tax bracket. No wonder you stick up for him so vehemently.


No wonder you stick up for Kerry so vehemently. You expect a hand out from the rest of us....:rolleyes:

[yourlastmistake]

Originally posted by Arioch
I know this is a heated topic....but please keep your comments directed towards the politicians and the issues, not towards the members of this board....

Not only will that convince no one of your own position, it further degrades your argumentive technique.....and makes you look childish....


That was uncalled for. All I said was"Quit your crying"

[Arioch]

What uncalled for is your bashing stingy's liking a certain candidate because of your perception of him....its neither political nor relevant...

The so called "point" your trying to make is "quit your crying" and accept YOUR point of view? How the fuck OLD ARE you? Are you really that out of ammo, intellectually speaking?

[yourlastmistake]

Quite a bit of favoritism is displayed around here.

[Arioch]

Even Gothic-Girl who has displayed quite a bit of name calling in the past, has presented clear well thought out arguments here, on issues i quite dissagree with her on...

Your the one thats out of line, and cant make an argument...and if i was displaying favoritism you would already be banned.....as i dont, you are not....

Not only that, the threads not even locked so you can replay once again....

[Arioch]

Come on....

*Drinks beer....awaits further slander*

[yourlastmistake]

Im sick of you and your mightier than thou attitude.

[Arioch]

Maybe Bush should have used that....

"Quit your crying Kerry!"

Ya, that would have swung the Debate around the other direction wouldnt it:rolleyes: ....

You did make some good points earlier tho.....its a shame you ran out of steam apparently....

[Arioch]

Not high and mighty, just anti-flame war...and your comments are boarderline, conservatively speaking....

If you could regress to your previous posting style....id have no beef, and consequently, no reason to remove your posts....its funny, no one else has problems with any of my moderating techniques....

And for the record, look at my responses to you, vs. your responses to me....i explain my position, to you and why i moderate accordingly, you further insult.....

[yourlastmistake]

Its funny how you take the sides. I thought you were above displaying any forms of favoritism as a moderator.

[Arioch]

I am, and if i wasn't being impartial, believe me, Gothic girl would have gotten it far worse than im giving you now....

This has nothing to do with your point of view and everything to do with the immature way you tried to express yourself....

Now, it has become self defeating, and consequently, i must retire from the thread.....as my attempt to stop a flame war has ignited one.......irony knows no bounds.....

But if you could possibly refrain from making other posters the target of your opinions.....you and i will get along fine......

[amycutthroat]

Originally posted by yourlastmistake
Its funny how you take the sides. I thought you were above displaying any forms of favoritism as a moderator. it's funny how you're a broken record. you've said your piece, let it die.

[EXTR3MIST]

If John Kerry won the presidential debate, why the long face?

[yourlastmistake]

All I said was Ouit your crying. Thats so immature?
Why dont you get the last word in and then lock the thread. Like your known to do. Your something else. The word hypocrite does cross my mind.

[yourlastmistake]

Originally posted by amycutthroat
it's funny how you're a broken record. you've said your piece, let it die.

Who's talking to you? Not me.

[amycutthroat]

Originally posted by yourlastmistake
Who's talking to you? Not me. hey dipshit, it's a public forum. shut your cockhole, thanks.

[EXTR3MIST]

Parading around a public forum with an open cockhole?

That's just wreckless.

[yourlastmistake]

Originally posted by EXTR3MIST
Parading around a public forum with an open cockhole?

That's just wreckless.


lol

[Arioch]

Poisoned Pathos: Authority ALWAYS gets questioned...You have to accept that...It comes with the title........

Very true....question away.....

Let the debate rage on folks....LBM, my point has been made....

[amycutthroat]

Originally posted by yourlastmistake
Now thats what I call intelligence and maturity. Come now Arioch, she called me a name. Delete it. But she is liberal and a Kerry supporter. So that probably makes it ok. so wait, since i oppose bush I support Kerry? assumptions are not your friend.

Besides I was simply giving back what you put out, sugar.

[Arioch]

So.......who do you guys think one the debate.....

[bloodrayne]

Originally posted by Gothic-chick
Maybe this scenario will help you understand.....


A Republican and a Democrat were walking down the street when they came to a homeless person.


The Republican gave the homeless person his business card, and told him to come to the business for a job. He then took out $20 and gave it to the homeless person.


The Democrat was very impressed, and when they came to another homeless person, he decided to help.

He walked over to the homeless person and gave him directions to the welfare office. He then reached into the Republican's pocket and got out $20. He kept $15 for administrative fees and gave the homeless person $5. And I thought that I was the 'Queen Of The Analogy'...lol...I'd hand you my crown, but I happen to like it right where it is....


BTW...YourLastMistake...Remember that thing you said that you were gonna do just for me?...Now would be a good time, Sweetie;)

Everyone sit back from the comp a little...Take in a deep breath, and let it out real slow...........There ya go

[yourlastmistake]

Originally posted by bloodrayne
And I thought that I was the 'Queen Of The Analogy'...lol...I'd hand you my crown, but I happen to like it right where it is....


BTW...YourLastMistake...Remember that thing you said that you were gonna do just for me?...Now would be a good time, Sweetie;)

Everyone sit back from the comp a little...Take in a deep breath, and let it out real slow...........There ya go

I will. I'm through.

[Arioch]

My contradiction has been removed LBM.....

On with the debate....

[amycutthroat]

*has shut own cockhole for the sake of getting along*

[Arioch]

As have i.....except we both keep posting.....maybe we can bury the transpirings thus far....

[yourlastmistake]

:)

[bloodrayne]

Originally posted by yourlastmistake
I will. I'm through. Thank you...Much appreciated:)...I love it when a man keeps his word;)

[Arioch]

So uh....ya.....the topic?

[Radical Edward]

Originally posted by EXTR3MIST
Parading around a public forum with an open cockhole?

That's just wreckless.

i dunno why but that sounds SO DISGUSTING!

on with the flame wa..... debate :cool: lol

GDIS

[DaBroMain]

Originally posted by Arioch
As have i.....except we both keep posting.....maybe we can bury the transpirings thus far....

Can we say Post whoring WHOOT WHOOT. LOL gotta love the post whoring lol.. *lub*:D

[Fluff the Ho]

actually ive seen a LOT of post whoring by AR lately

eg "*bumps for _______________ *"

GOOD FORM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D lol

GDIS

[Arioch]

"Ya ive been on alot more lately, since the Kpro thing i have felt the need to be more present in not only moderating but the community with you guys"

Uh.....i dont know why i quoted that....:confused:

[Fluff the Ho]

*sniffles*

you really DO care!! GROUP HUG!

GDIS

[meetthecreeper]

Stingy, you didnt get a tax cut? Then maybe you A. dont make enough to even pay taxes or B. make to much and dont deserve a tax break.

My lady and I together make just over 6 figures a year thats right a married couple making just over 100k a year got a tax break. Whoop te do I must be rich and didnt know it. I didnt know that auto mechanics were so highly paid that all of the sudden we are rich folks. My lady is an accountant going to school full time, working for her CPA. And we pay for school out of our pockets no grants, no loans nothing, thats right nothing.

I left home at 17 with the clothes on my back and about 20 dollars in my pocket, I had no money and no where to live, you want to know what I did? I worked 3 jobs to save enough money for me to go to tech school and get an education. No elite household here my friend. My wifes father was on the verge of being bankrupt and was told NO you cnat get a loan for your daughter to go to school. No elitist household there either. I didnt go to a private school and neither did my wife we work hard and I will be damned if I am going to give away my money to the government because they know better than me. Yea what innere city youths need is midnite basketball, how about some parenting skills people and stop having children to increase the welfare check. I am in no way rich my friend and dont expect that I ever will be, and if you arent making enough money where you work then maybe you should find something better. I will give you this, I believe that highly qualified teachers are out there and are few and far between and for sure they do not get paid enough to educate children, but that is for another discussion. When are people going to learn that the in order for the democrats to stay in power they have to keep the poor and the minorities down. Oh wait Gods forbid that a minority makes it in life and does something with themselves, then they have sold out and are Uncle Toms right, aka C. Thomas, Condi Rice, George Wahington Carver, Colin Powell, those arent really black folks they are OREOS right. Race relations in this country I believe can be attributed to the democratic party continually driving a wedge between whites and blacks to support their own gains. There is more homeless, drug addicts, and welfare recipients now than there were before FDRs great society. Cant you see, the government has no power if people are not dependent on it.

By the way I never said that I was sticking up for Bush, I simply pointed out my point of view in politics, no one ever said I was a Bush supporter but I will say I will never support John Kerry. ANd how funny it is about how Kerry says he is for the little guy and doesnt want tax breaks for the socalled rich, thats fine John I expect that you will be giving that tax break that you got back to a charity of your choice at any moment. I wont hold my breathe.

I am of the opinion if you pay taxes you get a tax break, just because someone who makes a million dollars a year got more of tax break than myself doesnt mean anything to me what it does mean is that he paid more taxes than I did.

One more thing before my head explodes, trickle down economics works like this. A rich guy, ( I am so jealous of him) takes his capital (his money) and invests it, whether it be the stock market, a business or whatever, thats where the jobs come from. If the rich guy didnt invest in business there would be no business, thus there would be no jobs, thus more dependency on the gummit.

Take Illinois for example, our great gov. is very business unfriendly, guess what lots of people downstate have lost their jobs because the businesses couldnt make money doing business here so they left the state. Now I have to pay more taxes to take care of those on unemployment and welfare because our great DEMOCRAT GOVERNOR decided to raise taxes and fees to run a business here. Dont think the tax the socalled rich plan is working, by the way a rich guy gave me my job, and another rich woman (a conservative woman business owner:eek: ) gave my wife her job. Funny I couldnt get that welfare mom with 18 kids to give me a job.

[meetthecreeper]

Originally posted by Gothic-chick
I love this man! :)

right back at ya Gothic-chick:D

[meetthecreeper]

Stingy,

politics aside, I luv ya man and I really do hope that you do well for yourself and your family.

Even though you probably think I am a ruthless cold hearted conservative rich guy.:p

[bloodrayne]

Originally posted by Arioch
"Ya ive been on alot more lately, since the Kpro thing i have felt the need to be more present in not only moderating but the community with you guys"Hmmm...Something is missing here....Let me think....OH YEAH...You forgot the part about how you can catch up to kPro's post count, now that he's no longer posting...lmao...


You know that I'm kidding ;)







Or am I?:p

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by meetthecreeper
Stingy,

politics aside, I luv ya man and I really do hope that you do well for yourself and your family.

Even though you probably think I am a ruthless cold hearted conservative rich guy.:p

No, I don't think that about you at all. Although, you and your wife make a little more than double what my wife and I make. And I did have to pay taxes last season, although I'll grant it wasn't much (a little over a hundred dollars.)

But as far as the democratic party keeping the minorities down so they can stay in power .... that's nothing short of silly. Affirmative action is a democratic idea (one that I disagree with, by the way), and so is welfare (another one that I don't necessarily disagree with, but I think needs a massive overhaul). But, you say that if the minorities were no longer strapped for cash, they would not need to vote democrat? Am I following you? The democrats are keeping the minorities down? Come on! If the republicans had their way every time throughout history, blacks and women would still be dreaming of the opportunity to go to the voting booths!

P.S.: I wouldn't say I that I love you back. I sort of keep you on the backburner when all my other dates have fizzled out. :p

[bloodrayne]

I interrupt this thread to inject it with a bit of humor...If you think that the political debating gets hot HERE...You should read THIS...

The Silliness... (http://horror.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10481)

[Arioch]

If the republicans had their way every time throughout history, blacks and women would still be dreaming of the opportunity to go to the voting booths!

Agreed.....You say conservative...i say intolerant.....gay marriage is the new discrimination.....

[meetthecreeper]

Originally posted by Arioch
Agreed.....You say conservative...i say intolerant.....gay marriage is the new discrimination.....

funny I am conservative, I also am a practicing witch for nearly 20 years (ssshhhh dont tell anyone otherwise they will come tear up my GOP membership card:rolleyes: ) not exactly mainstream neo-christian is it.

I dont have a problem with gay marriage, as a matter of fact I dont even understand why it is an issue. Dont confuse conservative with Republican there is a difference.

By the way good one Bloodrayne it seems that even the teachings of Christ cant bring people together.

[meetthecreeper]

Originally posted by Stingy Jack
No, I don't think that about you at all. Although, you and your wife make a little more than double what my wife and I make. And I did have to pay taxes last season, although I'll grant it wasn't much (a little over a hundred dollars.)

But as far as the democratic party keeping the minorities down so they can stay in power .... that's nothing short of silly. Affirmative action is a democratic idea (one that I disagree with, by the way), and so is welfare (another one that I don't necessarily disagree with, but I think needs a massive overhaul). But, you say that if the minorities were no longer strapped for cash, they would not need to vote democrat? Am I following you? The democrats are keeping the minorities down? Come on! If the republicans had their way every time throughout history, blacks and women would still be dreaming of the opportunity to go to the voting booths!

P.S.: I wouldn't say I that I love you back. I sort of keep you on the backburner when all my other dates have fizzled out. :p

Stingy, like I said I think that teachers should be paid a hell of a lot more than they are, it is one of those things that drives me crazy. Football, basketball, etc stars, movie stars etc get paid millions of dollars for playing games and for so-called acting while people that deal with the nations children,such as yourself, get paid, well lets just say not so well. Me thinks that is one of the biggest problems in society today is too much emphasis on things that are not important. You must be really dedicated to those kids to do what you do and I commend you for that.

This is what I am saying, I listen to a gentleman on the radio, his name is Tony Brown, on WLS out of Chicago, I believe you can listen on the web, he had made the remark that for too long the democratic party has taken the minority vote for granted, that no matter what they are going to vote that way and meanwhile what do the politcians do? Give them lip service and no substance. I am not saying that if minorities werent strapped for cash they wouldnt vote democratic, what I am saying is that they dont get diddly for their vote. Honestly I dont really care for what either party has done for this country, in a way I dont see much difference between the 2 and I think that it is time for some fresh blood and new ideas, AKA Libertarian party, populist, constitutionalist, whatever. I also dont buy the arguement that republicans would try to keep minorities and women away from the polls, after all the South was and I believe still is predominantly Democrat.

Affirmative action was a good idea at one time, but I think it has gotten abused and misused, much like the welfare system which was also a good idea at one time. I just think that giving people a hand out isnt going to help them. Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime.

By the way I am a sure thing and a cheap date LOL:p

[Tubalcain]

give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. teach a man to fish, and he'll eat for a lifetime. now, if you send the river across the ocean, where the water is cheaper, you end up with a man standing around with a fishing pole, starving his ass off. i agree that the welfare system is messed up, and there should be some major housecleaning done. but not done away with.because if there is even one person recieving it that really needs it, then its worth it. if we take these welfare mothers and give them jobs, they still wouldn't be able to work without daycare. and unless you create jobs that pay decent wages, or establish workplace childcare, they still wont be able to afford to work. what i dont understand is why the gov. doesnt go back to the old ccc days of the thirties. after high school, allow the people who cant afford college, and dont want to be crippled by student loans(another issue entirely),and dont want to join the army, to go to work for the gov. working on roads, in the forrests, cleaning up this place, while at the same time offer them technical training so that they can be competetive in the job market. make them sign a contract, and hold them to it. or after working for a number of years, pay for college like the military. i think it would eliminate the problem of illegal imigration (or at least make it a little better). oh well, i guess it goes back to the old saying, do onto others as you would have them do onto you, at least in some since.

[Fluff the Ho]

good one. as in, just cuz theres a couple of shitheads in there doesnt mean the whole bunch should be made to suffer.

GDIS

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by meetthecreeper
Stingy, like I said I think that teachers should be paid a hell of a lot more than they are, it is one of those things that drives me crazy. Football, basketball, etc stars, movie stars etc get paid millions of dollars for playing games and for so-called acting while people that deal with the nations children,such as yourself, get paid, well lets just say not so well. Me thinks that is one of the biggest problems in society today is too much emphasis on things that are not important. You must be really dedicated to those kids to do what you do and I commend you for that.

This is what I am saying, I listen to a gentleman on the radio, his name is Tony Brown, on WLS out of Chicago, I believe you can listen on the web, he had made the remark that for too long the democratic party has taken the minority vote for granted, that no matter what they are going to vote that way and meanwhile what do the politcians do? Give them lip service and no substance. I am not saying that if minorities werent strapped for cash they wouldnt vote democratic, what I am saying is that they dont get diddly for their vote. Honestly I dont really care for what either party has done for this country, in a way I dont see much difference between the 2 and I think that it is time for some fresh blood and new ideas, AKA Libertarian party, populist, constitutionalist, whatever. I also dont buy the arguement that republicans would try to keep minorities and women away from the polls, after all the South was and I believe still is predominantly Democrat.

Affirmative action was a good idea at one time, but I think it has gotten abused and misused, much like the welfare system which was also a good idea at one time. I just think that giving people a hand out isnt going to help them. Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime.

By the way I am a sure thing and a cheap date LOL:p

Hey, I appreciate the support you have for us who go into the trenches everyday here at home. I had a conversation once with a man who kept trying to talk to me about football. I hate football, always have, and I finally told him so. When he asked for an explanation, I basically told him what you said here in your post. That America has its priorities all out of whack. The entertainers get paid millions, whereas teachers and police officers are at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to professional pay. He just blinked and looked at me and said: "That's because nobody wants to pay to listen to a teacher teach." Yeah, I know, guy! That's my point! People would shell out 60-70 dollars for decent football game tickets with no problem, but would probably not even show up to enlighten their minds to a free lecture/seminar! But, what can you do?

And The South is predominantly republican. You can check that on any political map on the web. I live in Mississippi, and am well aware that I am surrounded by republicans on a daily basis.

But, you say you are a practicing witch for 20 years. I find this very interesting. I know you are not republican, but I would also like to point out that the republican party (if they had their way) would saturate this nation with Christianity. If you have children, you would realize how frightening this idea is. I'm an atheist, and have to send my daughter to a public school. And even though the law doesn't allow it, the teachers (at least in this area) take it upon themselves with every opportunity to bring god into the classroom. This is my MAIN problem with the republican party. It all boils down to separation of church and state. I'm tired of the decisions a president makes having a basis in his faith. Stem-cell research, for example. Logically, it is a necessity. Many Americans could benefit greatly from the results of this research, and to ban the practice of stem-cell research is simply immoral -- unless you fall back on religion to support your decision against it. It blows my mind.

[jay o2 waster]

kerry won

[movieman64]

Kerry won for delivery, and Busch won for substance.

I'm voting for Busch

[meetthecreeper]

But, you say you are a practicing witch for 20 years. I find this very interesting. I know you are not republican, but I would also like to point out that the republican party (if they had their way) would saturate this nation with Christianity. If you have children, you would realize how frightening this idea is. I'm an atheist, and have to send my daughter to a public school. And even though the law doesn't allow it, the teachers (at least in this area) take it upon themselves with every opportunity to bring god into the classroom. This is my MAIN problem with the republican party. It all boils down to separation of church and state. I'm tired of the decisions a president makes having a basis in his faith. Stem-cell research, for example. Logically, it is a necessity. Many Americans could benefit greatly from the results of this research, and to ban the practice of stem-cell research is simply immoral -- unless you fall back on religion to support your decision against it. It blows my mind. [/B][/QUOTE]

Oh dont get me started on religion, I dont care what anyones religion is and I dont force mine on anyone, but it seems that Christianity feels the need to do so. More people have died in history in the name of Christianity than all of the wars combined. Yea I agree there are alot of fundamentalist Christians in the republican party, one reason I dont care for them either. THe Bush administration made a point of saying that Pagans and or Wiccans and the like is not a legit religion, who the hell are they to decide that. Here is where I see the intolerance. I also agree with you whole heartedly on stem cell research, if it would save lives....I just happen to be in a tough position with how I vote and The lesser of 2 evils doesnt work for me. If I had to choose I would vote for Bush as much as he pisses me off at times, I just cant bring myself to vote for Kerry, I just dont believe that he believes in anything except how to get elected. I really like Howard Dean, even though I didnt agree with everything he said especially the war on terror, but the media made him out to be a nutjob and the democrats abandoned him. Shame, I think its 3rd party voting for me again which gets me nowhere.

[Arioch]

Id just like to say goodform on both Stingy AND Creepers back and fourth debating here....

You guys raise the bar as to the maturity and well formed arguments here....A grand example to the rest of we posters....

Goodform...

[meetthecreeper]

Originally posted by Arioch
Id just like to say goodform on both Stingy AND Creepers back and fourth debating here....

You guys raise the bar as to the maturity and well formed arguments here....A grand example to the rest of we posters....

Goodform...

Thanks bro, yea its better to have a serious discussion instead of taking it down in the gutter and name calling.

On that note, Stingy, I think that you are in a unique position being an atheist, whereas someone who is a christian, buddist, Pagan, Wiccan, or whatever, they have as myself do convictions to follow, and dont get me wrong I am not saying that you dont have convictions, but what I am saying is that it is hard for an individual not to make decisions based on thier faith.

I try to do right by folks and have respect for Nature and Mother Earth. I take only what I need and try to live my life by a certain philosphy. After all I think that religion is philosphy and it all depends on how you look at it. If W believes in his heart that stem cell research is wrong because of his religious beliefs I cant fault him for that as much as I disagree with him on that issue. Of course there are those that claim to be religious and then do things that are against everything that they claim to believe, some want to have it both ways. I guess all you can do is try to live life the best way you know how and in your heart you know if something you are doing is right or if it is wrong.

This is the problem I have with Kerry, he changes his position too many times so it is really hard to figure what he really believes. I prefer someone who can tell me what they think or feel and then not change that position based on polls or pressure.

Example: Alan Keyes- this guy is a right wing nut job to most, but he says what he thinks( I have heard the guy speak on several occasions) and he has never changed his position on what he has said. He said he thought that homosexuality is wrong, when asked about Cheneys daughter, he said that just because its CHeneys daughter makes no difference to him, he still believes it is wrong and condemns her for it. Now I dont think that is right by any stretch of the imagination, but the guy sticks to what he says and what you see is what you get. I would really like to see someone in politics like this, not his positions but his taking a stand whether it be unpopular or not.

[brideofcthulu]

They say never to discusss religion or politics. No one ever sees someone else's point of view no matter how well argued or construed that point is. I wondered how long it would take the argument to come down to Christ and gay marriage. All I can say on that is, I can't you believe in the 21st century IN AMERICA people are telling others who they can and can't marry. I can't believe that people don't realize marriage and love are basic rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Why you would care who someone else marries or worships is beyond me. How could two people getting married effect you. I think this election should be won or lost on issues that affect all of us, all of our defense, all of our taxes, all of our health. Not on if two people who want to, get married. It seems laughable that that is even an issue.

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by brideofcthulu
They say never to discusss religion or politics. No one ever sees someone else's point of view no matter how well argued or construed that point is. I wondered how long it would take the argument to come down to Christ and gay marriage. All I can say on that is, I can't you believe in the 21st century IN AMERICA people are telling others who they can and can't marry. I can't believe that people don't realize marriage and love are basic rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Why you would care who someone else marries or worships is beyond me. How could two people getting married effect you. I think this election should be won or lost on issues that affect all of us, all of our defense, all of our taxes, all of our health. Not on if two people who want to, get married. It seems laughable that that is even an issue.

I agree, it seems laughable. But it really isn't. I'm not the type of person that can stand by and idly let an egregious wrong occur to someone else when it is in my power to stop it. If the government is stomping on the rights of ANY of its citizens, be them black, gay, christian, wiccan, atheist, old, young, stupid, or suffering from rectal prolapses, and I have the power to vote those responsible out of office, I'll go ahead and do it. True, gay marriage does not affect me personally. But, I won't put my vote behind a candidate who does not practice tolerance and understanding.

[brideofcthulu]

Eloquently put. The point that I was trying to make exactly. I believe that marriage is an intrinsic right, not one to be debated. I can't believe that people don't understand that. Did you think I meant something else?

[world_destiny]

Honestly right now we all know kerry is in the lead by a small fraction but my opinion is still set on Bush he is a good man a great leader and in the end people will realize who they realy want as their leader for the next four years. Kerry is way to undeciceve about everything i mean just look at how many times he has gone back and fourth about the war. O h by the way im Destiny AMK babygirl and im 15 and glade to meet you all.:D

[allmykids]

I'm sure you can all tell she's a chip off the old block!! LOL

[Steve_Hutchison]

I'm Canadian so my opinion doesn't count. I want Bush out, he scares me. If the world was better made, Arnold could be president.

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by brideofcthulu
Eloquently put. The point that I was trying to make exactly. I believe that marriage is an intrinsic right, not one to be debated. I can't believe that people don't understand that. Did you think I meant something else?

Yes, I misunderstood you. I thought you meant that these topics were not worthy of debate and should not be considered when choosing who you're going to vote for. My bad.

;)

[brideofcthulu]

So what do Canadians think of gay marriage and religion

[Stingy Jack]

I grew up in Canada, and can tell you that they are far more accepting of differences than people are here in the US.

[Tubalcain]

creeper, before i say anything else, let me first say this. i mean you no disrespect in anything i say, just genuinely curious. you say you are a practicing witch, and have respect for nature, which is honorable, and yet you say that if you had to choose between the two candidates you would choose bush. yet in the short period before 9/11, bush did several things to rape the natural resources of our countries, including cutting the epa budget, opening up talks about drilling and logging in our national forests, etc... i admit that i dont know as much about the wiccan religion, but doesnt this weigh on your mind. im christian, and it bothers the hell out of me. sorry, no offence intended, like i said, im just curious.

[brideofcthulu]

I applaud openminded people Stingy jack. Wish there were more

[Tubalcain]

sure canada is opened minded, they let anyone in. including terrorists.

[Tubalcain]

i'm sorry, that was wrong. i just have a lot of border patrol agents it the family, and im subjected to their rants. i guess canada is alright. one thing i did like, though. i saw on bowling for columbine michael moore was going door to door, opening peoples doors, because he heard that noone locks their doors. and after he opened them the people came out and they weren't man. we dont lock our doors where i live, but if someone walked into my house, it would be hard not to attack them. sorry though, please forgive.

[Steve_Hutchison]

Originally posted by brideofcthulu
So what do Canadians think of gay marriage and religion
Canadians don't share one brain but we even have gay divorces now. Cool EH?

[Steve_Hutchison]

Originally posted by Tubalcain
sure canada is opened minded, they let anyone in. including terrorists.
There are no green cards here! If I could, I'd move to NYC. I like Canada tough.. just not my place. But our healthcare is really good... then again our taxes are high.

[Arioch]

They say never to discusss religion or politics. No one ever sees someone else's point of view no matter how well argued or construed that point is. I wondered how long it would take the argument to come down to Christ and gay marriage. All I can say on that is, I can't you believe in the 21st century IN AMERICA people are telling others who they can and can't marry. I can't believe that people don't realize marriage and love are basic rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Why you would care who someone else marries or worships is beyond me. How could two people getting married effect you. I think this election should be won or lost on issues that affect all of us, all of our defense, all of our taxes, all of our health. Not on if two people who want to, get married. It seems laughable that that is even an issue.

Agreed.....very well put.....its just another form of discrimination...why dont we just have all the gays work cotton fields for us....:o

[Steve_Hutchison]

Originally posted by Arioch
Agreed.....very well put.....its just another form of discrimination...why dont we just have all the gays work cotton fields for us....:o
I should be free to marry to 4 women at once.

[DaBroMain]

Originally posted by Arioch
Agreed.....very well put.....its just another form of discrimination...why dont we just have all the gays work cotton fields for us....:o


LOL nice.....:D :D

[Arioch]

I should be free to marry to 4 women at once.

Haha....agreed....

[Arioch]

So anyone see the last debate tonight?

I thought Kerry laid it down over and over about the Top 1% tax cuts bush has initiated.....

But other than that, it was really even.....

[MichaelMyers]

I thought it was a tie. I was hoping for some kind of "zinger" from either side...none really, though.

[newb]

Originally posted by MichaelMyers
I thought it was a tie. I was hoping for some kind of "zinger" from either side...none really, though.

Agreed. Same ole same ole.

[Arioch]

I was REALLY dissapointed that they BOTH thought Religion was such a big issue with legislating.....NIETHER of them said anything about the SEPERATION that SHOULD exist between their religion and the laws they make governing the rest of the country.....and us hethens....

[last bad move]

Originally posted by Arioch
I was REALLY dissapointed that they BOTH thought Religion was such a big issue with legislating.....NIETHER of them said anything about the SEPERATION that SHOULD exist between their religion and the laws they make governing the rest of the country.....and us hethens.... actualy i was just thinking that i only cought a little of it but i was disipointed that they made no statment about what you just said

[newb]

We interrupt this political debate for an important message.

The Red Sox just lost another one.


THE CURSE LIVES ON.


Now back to our regular programming.

[last bad move]

i swear it makes me sick to even watch that shit any more.they just bullshit its fucking discusting and we have to pick one of them to be our president. it impossible to tell who is honest or shit. war, health care, freedom. they say what people want to hear empty lies. ok ill shut up im just bitching now.

[Arioch]

i swear it makes me sick to even watch that shit any more.they just bullshit its fucking discusting and we have to pick one of them to be our president. it impossible to tell who is honest or shit. war, health care, freedom. they say what people want to hear empty lies. ok ill shut up im just bitching now.

Why i dont vote sir....i refuse to perpetuate the problems inherent in a 2 party system....

[Stingy Jack]

I watched the debate last night, and was really looking forward to it because domestic issues are a major concern for me. I agree with Arioch in that I was disappointed in how much clout both candidates put in faith. But I can understand it. If you're going to win the votes of as many Americans as you can, you'd better talk about how faith and religion are important (even if you don't believe it). I think Kerry did a better job than Bush in emphasizing that people of all faiths (and even those of us with no faith at all) deserve equal rights. And Kerry was more clear with the point that he would not legislate in such a way that his faith is pushed on others (hence his stances on abortion, stem cell research, and gay marriage.) Granted, he does agree with Bush that "marriage" is defined as the union between a man and a woman. But Kerry is more accepting of gay couples than Bush is, and is willing to extend the same rights to gay couples that married couples already enjoy. Basically, even though Kerry did talk about how his faith is important to him (he HAD to say that -- anything else would have been death for him, unfortunately), he was pretty clear -- albeit, in a roundabout way -- that he does not believe in governing a nation in such a way that everyone is forced to conform to the religious ideas of the President -- meaning: he is so very much for separation of church and state.

Can't say the same for Bush.

[movieman64]

Busch won last night, and will go on to defeat Kerry in November. I also felt bringing Chaney's daughter into it was unnecessary.

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by movieman64
Busch won last night, and will go on to defeat Kerry in November. I also felt bringing Chaney's daughter into it was unnecessary.

Why do you keep spelling Bush's name like the beer? Is it some kind of joke (like: "I hope the beer wins the presidency!"?)

I agree that Kerry shouldn't have mentioned Cheney's daughter. Not really anybody's business.

[movieman64]

Originally posted by Stingy Jack
Why do you keep spelling Bush's name like the beer? Is it some kind of joke (like: "I hope the beer wins the presidency!"?)

I agree that Kerry shouldn't have mentioned Cheney's daughter. Not really anybody's business.

OOOP's, habit I guess, thank you for correcting me.

On that note isn't the Owner/CEO of Coors's running for Governor in Colorado?

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by movieman64
OOOP's, habit I guess, thank you for correcting me.

On that note isn't the Owner/CEO of Coors's running for Governor in Colorado?

lol I don't really know. Not sure how I would feel about that, though.

[Ninja Moo]

War issues aside, we need a democrat in the house.

Simple as that.


Republicans care about the upper class.

Democrats care about the people.

You want more jobs in this country? You want to bring back the jobs Bush sent overseas so that the rich got even richer? You want our economy to get better? You want the middle and lower class people to have more money and food on their tables?

Then you need Kerry in the White House.


I'm about this country, and our people, I've felt firsthand what the job loss has done, what this fucked up economy has done.

It's time to fix it!

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by Ninja Moo
War issues aside, we need a democrat in the house.

Simple as that.


Republicans care about the upper class.

Democrats care about the people.

You want more jobs in this country? You want to bring back the jobs Bush sent overseas so that the rich got even richer? You want our economy to get better? You want the middle and lower class people to have more money and food on their tables?

Then you need Kerry in the White House.


I'm about this country, and our people, I've felt firsthand what the job loss has done, what this fucked up economy has done.

It's time to fix it!

It's too bad you're married. (sigh). Then again, I'm married too ... forgot about that.

[allmykids]

AAAHHHHH!!!! :( No more please! it's on every chanel. Make it stop!!

[Ninja Moo]

Originally posted by Stingy Jack
It's too bad you're married. (sigh). Then again, I'm married too ... forgot about that.

It wouldn't work anyways... You're an English teacher ... I'm going to school to be an English teacher.. We'd spend our whole lives correcting one another .. and neither would be able to add worth a shit. :D

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by Ninja Moo
It wouldn't work anyways... You're an English teacher ... I'm going to school to be an English teacher.. We'd spend our whole lives correcting one another .. and neither would be able to add worth a shit. :D

You have a total of 6 uneeded ellipses points in that entry. Edit, please.

:eek:

You might be right! :D

[Ninja Moo]

:) I never use sentences on the 'net ... I use ellipses.. They're cute...

My husband and I work out just fine ... He's the "math and computer guy"... I correct his spelling and speech ... he adds for me.. and fixes my computer..

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by Ninja Moo
:) I never use sentences on the 'net ... I use ellipses.. They're cute...

My husband and I work out just fine ... He's the "math and computer guy"... I correct his spelling and speech ... he adds for me.. and fixes my computer..

The wife is the cold voice of logic and reason (she majored in philosophy). So, basically I say or do something ... and she points out how ridiculous what I just said or did was. Then I write her an "I hate you" poem, which she doesn't get because it has symbolism and figurative language throughout.

[Ninja Moo]

Originally posted by Stingy Jack
The wife is the cold voice of logic and reason (she majored in philosophy). So, basically I say or do something ... and she points out how ridiculous what I just said or did was. Then I write her an "I hate you" poem, which she doesn't get because it has symbolism and figurative language throughout.

That's good stuff.

My husband just laughs at me when we shop. Because I never add correctly.

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by Ninja Moo
That's good stuff.

My husband just laughs at me when we shop. Because I never add correctly.

My wife won't let me have any money, because I never add correctly. She'll tell me "Here's twenty dollars. You can only spend ten." I'll come home after spending the whole twenty, and writing a check to cover what I didn't have in cash. Of course, she just doesn't understand how I needed both the copy of Jack-O and the special edition of Fulci's Zombie.

[Ninja Moo]

Originally posted by Stingy Jack
My wife won't let me have any money, because I never add correctly. She'll tell me "Here's twenty dollars. You can only spend ten." I'll come home after spending the whole twenty, and writing a check to cover what I didn't have in cash. Of course, she just doesn't understand how I needed both the copy of Jack-O and the special edition of Fulci's Zombie.

My husband is pretty understanding about my addiction to Horror movies. He has one to video games so it goes both ways. He'll shake his head and rolls his eyes occassionally. Like when I got all five Silent Night Deadly Nights and all three Sleepaway Camps on ebay and they came in the mail in a huge package. :D

The only time he complains is during Shocktober, (My friendly term for this, my favorite month of the year) when I insist upon watching one horror movie a day and buying new ones every week at the store.

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by Ninja Moo
My husband is pretty understanding about my addiction to Horror movies. He has one to video games so it goes both ways. He'll shake his head and rolls his eyes occassionally. Like when I got all five Silent Night Deadly Nights and all three Sleepaway Camps on ebay and they came in the mail in a huge package. :D

The only time he complains is during Shocktober, (My friendly term for this, my favorite month of the year) when I insist upon watching one horror movie a day and buying new ones every week at the store.

lol! Same here! I'm under lock and key during the weeks leading up to Halloween. Not only do I go on random horror movie shopping sprees, but I stock up on decorations and scary music too. My wife tried to allay my spending by buying me one of those "10 Horror Movies on Double-Sided Disks!" collections ... but most of those suck.

[Ninja Moo]

Originally posted by Stingy Jack
lol! Same here! I'm under lock and key during the weeks leading up to Halloween. Not only do I go on random horror movie shopping sprees, but I stock up on decorations and scary music too. My wife tried to allay my spending by buying me one of those "10 Horror Movies on Double-Sided Disks!" collections ... but most of those suck.

Oh yeah, those are the lame horror movies made in 1835... lol..

I went out and got a part time job at the end of August. He can't say a word to me... Every Friday guess where my check goes? Horror movies, decorations, stuff for costumes.. hahaha...

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by Ninja Moo
Oh yeah, those are the lame horror movies made in 1835... lol..

I went out and got a part time job at the end of August. He can't say a word to me... Every Friday guess where my check goes? Horror movies, decorations, stuff for costumes.. hahaha...

Damn ... see, that's where the laziness comes in. I should get a part time job. But will I? Hell no.

[Arioch]

War issues aside, we need a democrat in the house.

Simple as that.


Republicans care about the upper class.

Democrats care about the people.

You want more jobs in this country? You want to bring back the jobs Bush sent overseas so that the rich got even richer? You want our economy to get better? You want the middle and lower class people to have more money and food on their tables?

Then you need Kerry in the White House.


I'm about this country, and our people, I've felt firsthand what the job loss has done, what this fucked up economy has done.

It's time to fix it!


OMG! Can i marry you?!?!?!

[Ninja Moo]

Originally posted by Arioch
OMG! Can i marry you?!?!?!

Well if it ever doesn't work out between me and the husband ... Sure.. I'll be ready to try a woman out then ... ;)

[Arioch]

Well if it ever doesn't work out between me and the husband ... Sure.. I'll be ready to try a woman out then ...

That pleases me on a NUMBER of levels:D :D :D :D ;)