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  #21  
Old 09-22-2016, 03:51 PM
Abishai100 Abishai100 is offline
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"Bond; James Bond!"

1. Yes, well, as stated, the story of the fictional Sam using the chainsaw to hurt animals was only meant to invoke the consideration that we can re-imagine what the actual 'equipment/gear' in horror movies terrify us about (so don't read it too deeply)

2. As per Leatherface and Carrie not being clearly self-resentful, I can offer some more supportive claims; while they are both 'focused/relentless' in what they are doing and are either completely un-evaluative or evaluative in meaningful instances (e.g., Carrie empathizing with her mother's psychosis), they both represent the human mind being completely fragmented by ugliness. While Jason, Lizzie Borden (etc.) are also plagued by ugliness, Leatherface and Carrie seem especially plagued by 'freakish ugliness' (Leatherface is deformed spiritually, while Carrie is driven insane by cruelty). So self-loathing becomes very important in assessing the ostracism (at least) of both of them.

3. Finally, I'd like to point out how (very amusingly) Leatherface and Carrie are both antitheses of James Bond. It's an odd coincidental truth that while James Bond (a resourceful fictional British secret agent, intelligence officer, and spy) is an 'ethical mercenary,' Leatherface and Carrie are both 'pure survivors.' Feel free to argue!

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  #22  
Old 09-22-2016, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Abishai100 View Post
1. Yes, well, as stated, the story of the fictional Sam using the chainsaw to hurt animals was only meant to invoke the consideration that we can re-imagine what the actual 'equipment/gear' in horror movies terrify us about (so don't read it too deeply)

2. As per Leatherface and Carrie not being clearly self-resentful, I can offer some more supportive claims; while they are both 'focused/relentless' in what they are doing and are either completely un-evaluative or evaluative in meaningful instances (e.g., Carrie empathizing with her mother's psychosis), they both represent the human mind being completely fragmented by ugliness. While Jason, Lizzie Borden (etc.) are also plagued by ugliness, Leatherface and Carrie seem especially plagued by 'freakish ugliness' (Leatherface is deformed spiritually, while Carrie is driven insane by cruelty). So self-loathing becomes very important in assessing the ostracism (at least) of both of them.

3. Finally, I'd like to point out how (very amusingly) Leatherface and Carrie are both antitheses of James Bond. It's an odd coincidental truth that while James Bond (a resourceful fictional British secret agent, intelligence officer, and spy) is an 'ethical mercenary,' Leatherface and Carrie are both 'pure survivors.' Feel free to argue!

1. Sorry about that. We get it's a made-up story to re-imagine the setting of the chainsaw and consider the new impression.

I'm with ya, Abishai100. I'm a life long student of symbolism on the United States' collective subconscious. My radio show is based on it.

I don't really have anything to say about the chainsaw's effect on our subconscious beyond what you've said about TCSM's effect.

2. "they both represent the human mind being completely fragmented by ugliness." I'm not sure I agree with that. Let's talk about Carrie. I'll grant you, by her own admission, Carrie doesn't think she's pretty... but I'd like for you to point out anything beyond that. She's rejected, or picked-on, by many other students, but I don't know how you conclude that Carrie believes it's because she's ugly.

Many teens don't believe they're good looking, without believing they're ugly, but rather just plain or average. At mid-film, Carrie is convinced by a kind teacher that she is attractive, which she is.. and I mean in the film depiction she is attractive... it seems obvious she is attractive, and it's not really a big surprise to Carrie.

For anyone who experiences rejection and cruelty from many others, it does weigh on a person that there's something wrong with themselves that we can widely label "ugliness" beyond physical appearance... but I think they also recognize the inner ugliness of the people being cruel. Carrie can understand some of her behaviors have indirectly invited rejection, things she can change and mitigate, but that doesn't mean she thinks herself ugly, or that she self-resents or self-loathes.

We are of course talking about Carrie in the film specifically. Beyond your own speculation, I don't think you have specified how Carrie thought herself ugly in any way at all. Can you give some concrete examples in the film that indicate this?
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  #23  
Old 09-22-2016, 06:18 PM
Abishai100 Abishai100 is offline
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Film Notes/Descriptive

Well, Sculpt, it seems that Carrie's constant imbalanced relationship with her mother creates in her an extra-sensory sensitivity towards social expectations, and that can affect someone's self-image (even if she doesn't specifically think she's ugly in some way).

Here are a few scenes from the 1976 Carrie:

1. Breaking the mirror in some kind of act of mental self-destruction
2. Attacking her mother with flying knives
3. Her social embarrassment in the opening girls high school shower-tragedy scene

Here's a quick short-story about an 'ugliness psychology' perspective on the Carrie/Leatherface duality:

====

Carrie stood soaked in the blood of many US Navy men who had raped her and across her in the hallway of the Navy base was the chainsaw-wielding maniac Leatherface.

CARRIE: I just killed a dozen Navy-men!!
LEATHERFACE: Eat this!
CARRIE: You're sooo ugly!
LEATHERFACE: Uh-uh!!!
CARRIE: Need a mirror?
LEATHERFACE: Woo!
CARRIE: You're dirty!!
LEATHERFACE: Food!

====


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  #24  
Old 09-23-2016, 11:46 PM
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1. I'll give ya the mirror scene. I can't seem to find a clip online, but hard to argue that one.

2. Killing her mom was self-defense, not self-loathing.

3. No, Carrie was freaked-out that she was bleeding cause she didn't know about menstruation. She eventually was a bit embarrassed about the whole situation, but that's not self-loathing or seeing oneself as ugly.

"it seems that Carrie's constant imbalanced relationship with her mother creates in her an extra-sensory sensitivity towards social expectations". I'm not sure I know what you mean by that, particularly: "an extra-sensory sensitivity towards social expectations".

It interesting to discuss. But I should say too, Carrie and TCSM aren't really coherent stories and characters to begin with. They've certainly affected the collective subconscious, but, I think, in independent scraps, rather than as coherent wholes.
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  #25  
Old 09-24-2016, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Sculpt View Post
1. Sorry about that. We get it's a made-up story to re-imagine the setting of the chainsaw and consider the new impression.

I'm with ya, Abishai100. I'm a life long student of symbolism on the United States' collective subconscious. My radio show is based on it.

I don't really have anything to say about the chainsaw's effect on our subconscious beyond what you've said about TCSM's effect.

2. "they both represent the human mind being completely fragmented by ugliness." I'm not sure I agree with that. Let's talk about Carrie. I'll grant you, by her own admission, Carrie doesn't think she's pretty... but I'd like for you to point out anything beyond that. She's rejected, or picked-on, by many other students, but I don't know how you conclude that Carrie believes it's because she's ugly.

Many teens don't believe they're good looking, without believing they're ugly, but rather just plain or average. At mid-film, Carrie is convinced by a kind teacher that she is attractive, which she is.. and I mean in the film depiction she is attractive... it seems obvious she is attractive, and it's not really a big surprise to Carrie.

For anyone who experiences rejection and cruelty from many others, it does weigh on a person that there's something wrong with themselves that we can widely label "ugliness" beyond physical appearance... but I think they also recognize the inner ugliness of the people being cruel. Carrie can understand some of her behaviors have indirectly invited rejection, things she can change and mitigate, but that doesn't mean she thinks herself ugly, or that she self-resents or self-loathes.

We are of course talking about Carrie in the film specifically. Beyond your own speculation, I don't think you have specified how Carrie thought herself ugly in any way at all. Can you give some concrete examples in the film that indicate this?

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  #26  
Old 09-24-2016, 03:33 PM
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  #27  
Old 10-08-2016, 01:33 AM
Abishai100 Abishai100 is offline
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Detective: How to catch Leatherface (!)

Here's an interesting (creative) consideration.

Since Leatherface represents maniacal fear, we are invited to ask, "How would one go about catching the monster?"

Well, we know from the films that Leatherface can become overburdened by his cumbersome chainsaw (that dang thing!). In the original Hooper film and the 2003 re-make, the chainsaw fell on his own leg when he fell down, gashing it deeply.

Therefore, we have to find a way to reveal why that chainsaw of his SUCH a burden to him (that seems to be the only way!).

Here are some 'detective ideas' (humor me):

1. Chainsaw is a deforestation tool, so people think about trees when they think of a chainsaw, so (very subtly), people might think of deforestation, so why not pair the chainsaw (as a foil) with a child's water-gun (since water-guns represent peaceful imaginative play, and given that Earth's waters are eco-polluted, we might equally associate the water-gun with nature)?

2. Write to your Congressman and tell him, "This horror film dude Leatherface wields a chainsaw, but he ain't no Smokey the Bear, so we doubt he cares about the vitality of trees, so why not use the monster-avatar to talk about eco-depravity?"

3. Leatherface's chainsaw is very loud and disruptive (a true symbol of industrialization and technology), so wouldn't any image of the monster running across a shallow stream with that thing remind us of the tranquillity of nature?






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  #28  
Old 10-10-2016, 09:53 AM
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so wouldn't any image of the monster running across a shallow stream with that thing remind us of the tranquillity of nature?






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  #29  
Old 01-19-2017, 09:55 PM
Abishai100 Abishai100 is offline
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"Catch you Demi-God"

I think I posted this specific topic on this thread already, but I wanted to add another note which popped into my mind, since it's relevant to the general symbolic question, "Why does Leatherface seem like Boogeyman?"

"Can Leatherface be killed?"

In every movie about him (thus far), he does not get fatally wounded, though he certainly gets injured.

Imagine a 'gung-ho' vigilante type (maybe some new age left-wing idealist who refers to himself happily as 'The Shadow') builds a camp right outside Leatherface's house and then lures him into a forest where he has laid out a giant hidden ditch filled with metal spikes. As Leatherface runs towards 'The Shadow,' the vigilante blows a deafening whistle and shines a blinding torch-light into the psycho's face to discoordinate him, and when the psycho falls into the ditch thinking he will reach 'The Shadow,' the vigilante douses him with corrosive acid. This 'kit-tactic' approach could work, since the brutish maniac is somewhat burdened by that heavy chainsaw he wields like Excalibur.

Seems like a 'straightforward plan' (!), but the point of this random suggestion is to posit the notion that the reason we can liken Leatherface to the Boogeyman is that he is simultaneously pseudo-immortal and eerily goofy.

Is 'goofy' a common feature of screen ghouls?


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  #30  
Old 03-29-2017, 08:31 PM
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Still trying to figure out how a blood dripping chainsaw symbolizes the tranquility of nature.
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