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Old 07-14-2019, 01:29 AM
Mile Mile is offline
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Unpopular opinions in horror

Ok, I expect most everyone to disagree with me on this but regardless I still think I'm right and I wonder if there is anyone who agrees with me or has a good argument why I'm wrong.

To me horror damn near died in 1995 because of the movie Scream (and Tales from the Crypt going off air the next year). After Scream came out just about every mainstream horror movie copied it, if any of you remember I Know What You Did Last Summer or a slew of vhs/dvd covers at your video stores (late 90s-early 2000s) that looked like a Backstreet Boys album cover.

Scream was a teeny bopper movie. if any of you remember a show called Beverly Hills 90210, a teeny bopper show in the early 90s, Scream was BH90210 with a killer. It was in no way shape or form made for your at the time slasher audience, it was made to appeal to 15yo girls and very successful because of it. I hated it from back then and still do. I remember people in my neighborhood who absolutely hated horror but loved Scream.
Scream and it's influence completely killed atmosphere in horror. The whole, here's the rules of a horror movie, to me completely killed the movie. When I watch movies, I try to get into it, like it's real and that in and of itself is like a big reminder to the audience- It's not real, don't be scared. I really don't want that. In my opinion with a few edits to Scream it could've been put out by Disney. I have the same opinion for all its sequels and movies that ripped it off.

There was a few really good movies in the late 90s but they weren't in the mainstream and even a lot of underground flicks at the time were Scream rip-offs or less gritty and more teenager friendly. To me horror didn't make a comeback in the mainstream until Saw, Hostel and House of a 1000 Corpses. I was really excited for the torture porn and retro genres to emerge because for years I was starved for real horror.

For those of you that are a lot younger than me, just think 80s horror/slashers and the early 90s continuation of that, blood, gore, tits- very masculine. Scream and its influence neutered horror for a few years with a big dose of estrogen filled teeny bop dialogue. Take a look at the dramatic parts of Scream and tell me it wasn't straight out of teeny bopper shows. The main character has a lot of emotional parts, feelings etc that horror was completely devoid of before that.


I can see people saying, appealing to a broader, younger and more female audience, mainstream etc. And you'd be right about that but when you turn your back on your base, to me that's never good. Just imagine that you love a genre exactly the way it is and then it takes a 180 on you.
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Old 07-15-2019, 10:43 AM
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Interesting take on issue of Scream and the films of the era.

My quick reply is I think there is room for films like Scream. Viva la deference.


It's just one film. But true, it's success spawned more films of the type... the forever film trend of most producers chasing dollars, not art, originality or tradition.

I wasn't a big fan of Scream, but I mildly enjoyed it. I liked certain parts, like the opening, but mostly didn't like the 'end-part' of the ending (not the outcome, the execution). The end was more akin to bad 80's horror; and a slice of the 90's 'killer that won't stay dead' trope... but it was a film about horror tropes, so I guess it's 'par for the course' .

You're not wrong... Scream was written by Kevin Williamson who created/wrote Dawson Creek, Vampire Diaries and I Know What You Did Last Summer. However, I didn't find Scream overly soap-opera-ish. It just had a little more meat and character development to me.

I appreciated different horror 'types' and 'trends' through horror history, like Dracula (1931), King Kong (1933), Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1954), The Exorcist (1974), Halloween (1979)… I appreciate character development as essential for certain horror films, and my usual preference. Films can specializes away from it, like say Texas Chainsaw Massacre, but I was no fan of late 70's-through-80's hack repetitious boobs/kill/gore machine. I was happy to see the era produce films like Alien, The Thing, Poltergeist, and The Fly.

Suffice is to say, Scream was just one film to me. I'm glad it was different, and that it helped add finance to more horror -- and you hope to original horror, but everyone knows it will spawn copies too. Some folks are happy Halloween (1979) spawned twelve Friday the 13th films... people like different stuff.
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Last edited by Sculpt; 07-19-2019 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 07-17-2019, 07:23 AM
Mile Mile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sculpt View Post
Interesting take on issue of Scream and the films of the era.

My quick reply is I think there is room for films like Scream. Viva la deference.


It's just one film. But true, it's success spawned more films of the type... the forever film trend of most producers chasing dollars, not art, originality or tradition.

I wasn't a fan of Scream, but I mildly enjoyed it. I liked certain parts, but mostly didn't like the end. The end was more akin to bad 80's horror; and a slice of the 90's 'killer that won't stay dead' trope... but it was a film about horror tropes, so I guess it's 'par for the course' .

You're not wrong... Scream was written by Kevin Williamson who created/wrote Dawson Creek, Vampire Diaries and I Know What You Did Last Summer. However, I didn't find Scream overly soap-opera-ish. It just had a little more meat and character development to me.

I appreciated different horror 'types' and 'trends' through horror history, like Dracula (1931), King Kong (1933), Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1954), The Exorcist (1974), Halloween (1979)� I appreciate character development as an excellent addition to horror films. Films can specializes away from it, like say Texas Chainsaw Massacre, but I was no fan of late 70's-through-80's hack repetitious boobs/kill/gore machine. I was happy to see the era produce films like Alien, The Thing, Poltergeist, and The Fly.

Suffice is to say, Scream was just one film to me. I'm glad it was different, and that it helped add finance to more horror -- and you hope to original horror, but everyone knows it will spawn copies too. Some folks are happy Halloween (1979) spawned twelve Friday the 13th films... people like different stuff.
If it had less of an impact on mainstream horror, I wouldn't hate it so much. Like if there was just a handful of movies like that to come out instead of almost everything.
I do see what you're getting at though. The 80's was really hit and miss, lots of greatness but lots of crap too. Every genre becomes cookie cutter and done to death after it becomes popular. There are a few genres though that even the subpar stick to the formula copies I like, slashers for instance (in the 70s and 80s vein).

I'm not against character development at all, I just hate the way it was done in the teen slasher genre of the 90s/early 2000s. NOES, Halloween, Exorcist. Phantasm, they all had character development but in a completely different way. I don't need every horror movie to be action packed, I have a longer attention span than that. It is necessary for impact to have developed characters terrified, killed etc so it gets a reaction out of you, not just here's a character 5 seconds later dead. I agree with you there. Almost every movie that is truly scary, is slow. I do like some action/horror for a change here and there but there is no way I'd want only that.
I was wrong on the year too, 96, it was the same year TFTC got taken off air. There was some really good stuff at the time too, like In the Mouth of Madness and Lord of Illusions, it's really a shame that those movies weren't ripped off instead.

Torture porn ran it's course, even though I really liked some of those movies I really don't think it should go on forever and it had its dung pile copies too. Found footage I'm glad to see go to but I really never was into that.
Retro horror I honestly hope it never dies and would love to see some 70s worship. The genre hasn't been too saturated yet, even though it has been in the mainstream to a degree.

Last edited by Mile; 07-17-2019 at 07:57 AM.
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Old 07-17-2019, 12:39 PM
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I hear ya. It's kind of funny about the teeny-drama horror that's associated with Scream and on through today. But we saw it in the late 50s thru 60's drive-in horror films (like say, The Blob, I Was a Teenaged Werewolf), and every decade has had some of it's own. Some are done well, and it's relatable to anyone, and sometimes not where it's a bit of self-glorification, shallow style/attitude over character, and annoying and not very relatable.

What were some to the 80s slashers you liked? And some 90s, 2000s any horror genre you liked?
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Old 07-18-2019, 02:13 AM
Mile Mile is offline
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I really miss the drive-in and those hole in the wall small theatres with double features back in the late 80s.

As far as slashers go- Black Christmas, Friday the 13th 1-4, Halloween 1,2, 4, 5, 6 and the 2 Rob Zombie Halloweens, Sleepaway Camp, The Burning, Inside 2007 the original, Them the original French movie, Texas Chainsaw Massacre 1, 2 and the remakes from the 2000s, Dario Argento giallo like Deep Red, the Prowler, Maniac, NOES 1,3,4, Freddys Dead, Cape Fear (with Deniro), Fear, etc. Some are serious movies, others are cheesy.

Some other classics Phantasm, Omen, Exorcist, Evil Dead, Videodrome, Scanners, Alien, Return of the Living Dead 2 and 3, Trilogy of Terror, Black Sabbath, Amityville 1 and 2, In the Mouth of Madness, Lord of Illusions, Hills Have Eyes original, the Hitcher, The Beyond, Creepshow 1 and 2, Shocker, People Under the Stairs, TFTC series, Twilight Zone, Night Gallery, Tales From the Dark Side, etc.

New stuff, the Saw series, Hostel, Charlies Family, House of the Devil, Babysitter Wanted, It Follows, Frailty, Horsehead, the Editor, the Void, the Love Witch, Hereditary, 30 Days of Night, Masters of Horror series. etc

To me by far the best new Slasher was inside (A L'interieur).
I do enjoy really old school stuff like king Kong and Godzilla too.

These lists are just off the top of my head.
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Old 07-19-2019, 12:17 PM
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Some good stuff there, eclectic. If you remember them, what was your favorite pre-1985 Godzilla film(s)?
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Old 07-23-2019, 06:59 AM
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I liked SCREAM and its clones. But I'm 46 and horror isn't scary anyway. I just enjoy them like Scooby Doo.
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Old 07-28-2019, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mile View Post
To me horror damn near died in 1995 because of the movie Scream (and Tales from the Crypt going off air the next year).
I do agree with you to a certain extent. What really killed horror during this era was the genre becoming to serious... and the genre taking itself to seriously. Scream couldn't just be a slasher flick it had to be a self reflexive parody of the genre. Although I enjoyed the film when it came out I couldn't help but feel it was quite patronizing to a die hard cult trash fan like myself.

The horror films of this era especially after Silence Of The Lambs basically fell more into the thriller category for me. The genre was trying to legitimize itself and I think it suffered for it diluting the purity of horror being a simplistic visceral experience. The early 2000s saw a move back to this but combining it with the more psychological aspects of the 90s thriller films to create some pretty intense flicks especially the stuff that came out of France like High Tension and Inside along with some pretty grizzly underground films like Mordum and Murder Set Pieces.

It was a low point for horror with Scream at the forefront.
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Old 07-28-2019, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Elvis_Christ View Post
I do agree with you to a certain extent. What really killed horror during this era was the genre becoming to serious... and the genre taking itself to seriously. Scream couldn't just be a slasher flick it had to be a self reflexive parody of the genre. Although I enjoyed the film when it came out I couldn't help but feel it was quite patronizing to a die hard cult trash fan like myself.

The horror films of this era especially after Silence Of The Lambs basically fell more into the thriller category for me. The genre was trying to legitimize itself and I think it suffered for it diluting the purity of horror being a simplistic visceral experience. The early 2000s saw a move back to this but combining it with the more psychological aspects of the 90s thriller films to create some pretty intense flicks especially the stuff that came out of France like High Tension and Inside along with some pretty grizzly underground films like Mordum and Murder Set Pieces.

It was a low point for horror with Scream at the forefront.
Yeah, there was some good thriller and/or psych horror that came out in the 90s 2000s, like Jacobs Ladder, The Sixth Sense, Lawnmover Man, Seven, The Ring, The Others, Misery, Dead Silence, Vacancy, (and I actually like The Cell). I liked the comedy horror of Arachnophobia, Army of Darkness and Shawn of the Dead.
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Old 10-08-2019, 02:47 PM
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I think my biggest gripe with horror is going to be completely subjective---
They aren't scary. Everything is indeed, cookie-cutter nowadays and easy enough to guess.

I also despise excuse for tits in ANYTHING, especially horror movies. Unless I'm seeing some sawed off, I don't care, thank you. Keep your tits and your screaming whores out of my horror. The only time I can tolerate it is when it's a dumb slasher where you know... sex=gonna get murdered. Like Friday the 13th. I love those movies because sometimes I'm in the mood to see some dumb teenagers get torn to pieces.

Another thing, is I'm sick of the "lone female survivor." Done to death. Boring, sometimes very unrealistic, and honestly, I'd absolutely love to see a lone male survivor. Or two male survivors. Just to balance things out, you know?
Lastly, and very importantly, for the love of whatever God you pray to, can we just have a black guy live for once?

I mean, I know GET OUT exists, and trust me, it's on my list to watch, and I am extremely excited to see more variety for African American dominant movies, but right now the majority sits with "the black guy is the first to die/or dies and never survives the movie ever" syndrome.
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