Last Seen 70s/80s Movie

[joshaube]

Oh, I forgot to mention...
Night Watch (Nachnoi Dozor)

A foreign film that did not seem so foreign. And not quite a film, either. Episodic would best describe it, but I am aware that this is a trilogy. Day Watch is released, and Dusk Watch (if they are going with that title?) is being made either at this time, or in the near future. Oh, and all three are based on novels, but I heard reports that the novel material was all used by the end of the second film? Can't confirm this being true, who knows.

The whole thing... and it's mythology, really confused me. I found myself paying really close attention in the beginning. I had to re-watch some parts to make sense of what was going on. It wasn't described that well. But, nearing the end, everything sort of starts to make sense. You get an idea of how things work, and I'm sure it will be expanded on in the upcoming features.

It sort of takes the really overdone, overcliched light-vs-dark theme (actually, it doesn't SORT OF, it does that exactly...) and mixes in shapeshifters and "vampires." Probably a host of other mythos as we continue.

I actually expected this to be intelligent. To have a deeper meaning, a psychological aspect. To have some amount depth. But... it was actually, really, really hollow. I wonder how the literature compares, because this does not seem like literary material.

Then again, as it is tricky being a trilogy that is so connected - like a mini-series - perhaps the big ol' revelations will come nearing the end of the third installment. In some massive twist, or explosion of intricacy that we had missed when watching the two films prior. Something that connects everything.

Oh, and that "twist" was so, so, sooo easy to predict.

It was decent, don't get me wrong. Worth a watch. I liked how they set-up the ending, with the choosing of sides. The mini-revelation of how the events we had witnessed forced him to chose that specific side, and what was done to ensure it.

The ending had a real "tune in next week to find out!" feel. It has me looking forward to the second installment, which is what it should've done. So I guess, it succeeded?

B- ish.

[Geddy]

First Blood...

[Phalanx]

Hostel..decided to see for the first time after never really being interested to.
Started watching, got bored, stopped.
Didn't think much of it at all.

[hammerfan]

Underworld

[ChronoGrl]

Originally Posted by joshaube

Haha, yes, I love to rant. I get caught up sometimes. I often write three times as much as I post, and go back and keep editing it down. That's why nearly all of my posts have the 'last edited' tag at the bottom.

Okay, I see where you are coming from more clearly. I really did think it was a case of, as you put it, wanting more Mirrormask. I thought you had missed the fact that it was not suppose to be a pure fantasy film. I misjudged you.

Note what Roderick has posted above. He makes a good point. The film is very intricate. Not only do you have Ofelia attempting to escape her real-life situation through a fantasy, but her real-life setting itself mirrors that of a fantasy. You have all of the players. Both are equally as dark. Ofelia is central in her fantasy, while she is nearly excluded from the "fantasy" taking place in the real world.

I noticed you used the word 'cliche' in an above post, referencing these real-life scenes. That's what a fantasy always is, cliche, in one sense or another. Isn't everything, if just a tad?

I can see where you are coming from, for sure. Sometimes it does feel as though they are elongating the real-life scenes a tad too much. Taking what seems like it should have been a small addition, and creating a wonderful story that expands far beyond the intended runtime. Noting Roderick, I realize that the film is perhaps not as Ofelia-centric as I had believed. The General becomes another important character, playing out his own 'fantasy.'

I watched Brazil earlier this year, and I would say, I much prefer the ending of Pan's Labyrinth.

It's so refreshing to have movie discussions... I wish my friends were as passionate. :)

What's tricky about this conversation at the point that it's come to is that, ultimately, I agree with both of you. I really do.

Pan's Labyrinth is one of the most beautiful films I've ever seen.

I agree. Absolutely stunning. No arguing there. Every single scene was beautiful, be it fantasy or "reality."

The reality scenes are more horrific by far than the fantasy scenes and Capitan Vidal is a villain of the highest order.

Yes, it's true. He's a villain in real life and in fact, he is larger-than-life (I used the word "cliche" because he is that cliche villain "of the highest order"). That he is the villain in reality I found interesting because he is more a greater threat than any of the villains that she has in her fantasies. Also, being set against a 1940s beseiged Spain, you are going to get a different kind of elevated horror - civil unrest as well as familial strife. But, still, I would argue that the reasons why her fantasies are so dark is because her reality is so incredibly dark.

A little girl who doesn't quite feel a part of her own family - because her real family is searching for her

Uhm, yes, the first part of that statement is fairly obvious, though I'm not sure what you mean by the second part of that statement... By "real family" are you talking about within her fantasy?

A Mother who will do anything to keep her family alive - including take protection from a monster

Yup. Another cliched character out of fantasy. Beautifully tragic.

A Master of control who faces a little girl who step into a world he cannot even conceive of

Yup...

A guide to the other world who deceives in order to test

Oh, yes, I LOVED this character as an element to her fantasy. I thought that he was brilliant and well-done.

Ultimately it is about sacrifice and faith with an almost Brazil-like finale

Yes, and yes. I actually liked the ending a lot and thought that it was the only way that the movie could end.



...

I think that the issue with the current discussion is that you guys might think that I'm disagreeing with you or that there was something in the movie that I intrinsically missed or don't appreciate.

Quite the contrary - All of the points that you guys bring up, as per the structure of the film as well as the merits of the direction, I understand purpose, plot, and means.

But it just didn't work for me.

It's funny because I often have these kind of discussions with the few people I know who actually LOVE movies. When I say that I don't like something, the assumption on their part is that, obviously there was something incredibly mindblowingly integral and important that I must have MISSED! No. The truth is, I'm a huge movie-dork. I am. And I close-watch, close-read, close-analyze film to the point that it drives my friends crazy.

I get the structures and archetypes that Pan's Labyrinth is creating, playing on, and revelling in.

But, ultimately, I found it uneven, disappointing, and boring at times. And while I could assume meaning, there were still times when I was asking, "What's the point, here?" not so much that I missed it, but that I thought that I wasn't a fan with how he structured the "reality." I can see why. It's a directorial choice. But I don't have to like it.


.......................

Edit:

Josh, I just noticed that you weren't a big fan of Night Watch... It's funny because I saw your post before reading it and was like, "Crap, I don't like THAT film either," but then I read it and agree with you whole-heartedly.

The whole thing... and it's mythology, really confused me. I found myself paying really close attention in the beginning. I had to re-watch some parts to make sense of what was going on. It wasn't described that well. But, nearing the end, everything sort of starts to make sense. You get an idea of how things work, and I'm sure it will be expanded on in the upcoming features.

Honestly, that part totally lost me... I thought it was interesting! And fascinating!!! But I wasn't sure exactly how that wound up tying into the film (which bothered me while watching it).

...

I'm glad I'm not the only one.

ha

[joshaube]

I agree that this discussion is fun. I am glad that no one became the typical forum troll, and started a havoc. It was nice having an actual discussion, with actual points - solid points.

None of my friends IRL are that into movies. They chat while in theatres, and if at home, they tend to do other things - letting the movie act as background noise. It really gets to me. I remember seeing the third X-Men film with a few friends, and afterwards, trying to discuss the subtexts within the film's main plotline. All I got was a "HUH?" and a response similar to: "It was about mutants... what were you watching?"

And that plotline in X-Men 3 was about as obvious as a metaphor gets.

I admit at first, I was sort of trying to poke at you and say "Are you sure you understand?" and made an attempt to persuade you to change your mind. I'm notorious for trying to persuade people into following my own opinion. But I understand now that it was not a case of not understanding anything, it was merely a matter of you not liking it; plain and simple. You understood everything (better then most who LOVE the film), and you were able to see the good in the film, you just didn't like it as much as a few others. That's understandable.

I hope there's more of these friendly discussions in the future; they're better then the "I didn't like this film." "Your retarded!" "I hate this forum..." "THEN LEAVE!!!" banter that occasionally occurs here.

---

After some hefty Christmas shopping tonight, I'm heading out to see I Am Legend with one of the less movie-numb friends I have.

[GorePhobia]

Can't wait to see I Am Legend. Not just for the movie itself but for the amazing The Dark Knight trailer attached to it.

[ChronoGrl]

Originally Posted by joshaube

I agree that this discussion is fun. I am glad that no one became the typical forum troll, and started a havoc. It was nice having an actual discussion, with actual points - solid points.

None of my friends IRL are that into movies. They chat while in theatres, and if at home, they tend to do other things - letting the movie act as background noise. It really gets to me. I remember seeing the third X-Men film with a few friends, and afterwards, trying to discuss the subtexts within the film's main plotline. All I got was a "HUH?" and a response similar to: "It was about mutants... what were you watching?"

And that plotline in X-Men 3 was about as obvious as a metaphor gets.

I admit at first, I was sort of trying to poke at you and say "Are you sure you understand?" and made an attempt to persuade you to change your mind. I'm notorious for trying to persuade people into following my own opinion. But I understand now that it was not a case of not understanding anything, it was merely a matter of you not liking it; plain and simple. You understood everything (better then most who LOVE the film), and you were able to see the good in the film, you just didn't like it as much as a few others. That's understandable.

I hope there's more of these friendly discussions in the future; they're better then the "I didn't like this film." "Your retarded!" "I hate this forum..." "THEN LEAVE!!!" banter that occasionally occurs here.

---

After some hefty Christmas shopping tonight, I'm heading out to see I Am Legend with one of the less movie-numb friends I have.

Oh, man, I think you just made my day... :)

Yeah, the Pan's Labyrinth discussion is definitely worth merit... Honestly, two of my close friends LOVED it and refused to listen to my reasons for NOT liking it (which frustrates me because I put a LOT of thought into my movie opinions - as corny as it sounds). I hate being written off as "Just a snob," when, really there are REASONS I feel the way I feel... Probably the same for you, Josh, Rod, and other people around here who think a LOT and analyze movies.

It's funny because the Pan's Labyrinth discussion reminds me of a discussion I had with a friend of mine on 28 Days Later... He LOVED the movie and thought that I was incredibly DAFT for not liking it.

So we went point by point, hashing out every single PRO and every single CON of the movie, and we agreed on ALL of its strengths and weaknesses... It just so happened that HE thought that the strengths outweighed the weaknesses, while I thought the opposite.

I think it's the same situation here - I feel as though the weaknesses of Pan's Labyrinth outweigh the strengths... And some of the directorial choices that have been seen as strengths, I see as weaknesses...

But at least we all agree on the main points of the film... :)

...

I can totally sympathize with the friends who talk through movies or don't even bother to watch them at home... It drives me CRAZY, especially if it's a movie that I feel passionately about.

I saw the second Matrix movie with two groups of friends: With the first group of friends, we took a couple of hours to discuss the philosophy of the movie (ignoring ITS weaknesses) and what we hoped to see in the third.

The SECOND group of friends - I TRIED to get them to talk, but they were just like, "Heh. Fighting scenes."

It was a sad, sobering experience. :(

I know that the second Matrix movie isn't everyone's favorite, but there were a lot of themes in there that were worth discussion...

anyway...

[hellfire1]

Originally Posted by ChronoGrl

Oh, man, I think you just made my day... :)

Yeah, the Pan's Labyrinth discussion is definitely worth merit... Honestly, two of my close friends LOVED it and refused to listen to my reasons for NOT liking it (which frustrates me because I put a LOT of thought into my movie opinions - as corny as it sounds). I hate being written off as "Just a snob," when, really there are REASONS I feel the way I feel... Probably the same for you, Josh, Rod, and other people around here who think a LOT and analyze movies.
...

Or you just get called "difficult", like I do, most recently for not liking Zombie's Halloween. :rolleyes: Ah well...

From dusk till Dawn

[ChronoGrl]

Originally Posted by hellfire1

Or you just get called "difficult", like I do, most recently for not liking Zombie's Halloween. :rolleyes: Ah well...

From dusk till Dawn

"Difficult"?! I heard that that movie was terrible! Haven't seen it myself though...

Plus... The original is so incredibly amazing... Why would someone want to remake it in the first place?!

We're not "difficult." We're refined. :p