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Lucid Dreams
08-01-2004, 05:08 PM
This ones gonna probally gonna get a lot of feedback...well its what i'm hoping at least....

I was just wondering, besides myself, what peoples opinion's on if there is or isn't a God....and what all of you would say to him(imagining that eithr way that there is a God) if you got to talk to him or ask him a single question...all opinions on this are appreciated...i've just been wondering

Personally, i don't believe in God...of course i have my reasons, but thats another story...but on the other point of this thread...if i were to talk to him and meet him...my question would probally be 'What is the point of humanity'....why did he happen to put us on this earth, and why did he create the universe with soley us in it(of course this leads into the whole science issue with aliens and shit and proving if god can be real)...what is the point of going through all of the work of creating man....is it an entertainment purpose like those reality TV shows are?...or is it that he just has nothing better to do with his time...kind of like that whole Matrix shit how it keeps re-running and slightly changes each time....theres soo much that could be involved with this ques....what do you guys think?

jay o2 waster
08-01-2004, 05:10 PM
post a shorter version of what u wanna tell us and maybe ill read it

Lucid Dreams
08-01-2004, 05:12 PM
its not that long...is it?

cheebacheeba
08-01-2004, 05:59 PM
Shut up Jay...yknow one of these days you're gonna have to upgrade to reading more than just signs n comics n'shit...;)

I'd ask only about the knowledge we have yet to attain and confirm - the whole life after death deal, yknow, assuming this god thing was honest, and I were to find out there was just *nothing* afterwards, I may choose to live my life in a pretty damn different way.
I personally wouldn't give a shit about his motives in our creation, only what's in store for us matters to me.

Chainsaw Guy
08-01-2004, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by cheebacheeba
Shut up Jay...yknow one of these days you're gonna have to upgrade to reading more than just signs n comics n'shit...;)

I'd ask only about the knowledge we have yet to attain and confirm - the whole life after death deal, yknow, assuming this god thing was honest, and I were to find out there was just *nothing* afterwards, I may choose to live my life in a pretty damn different way.
I personally wouldn't give a shit about his motives in our creation, only what's in store for us matters to me.



I am afraid theres no after life and just darkness

VisionOfBlood
08-01-2004, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by jay o2 waster
post a shorter version of what u wanna tell us and maybe ill read it

wow! arent we the typical amercian ASSHOLE.(and im an amercian so im allowed to say that). maybe if instead of being a fucking duche bag and read the post instead of critisizing the length of it, you might find it has more intelligence than your pinky finger:D

and almost forgot...there is no god...so i will not be asking an invisible so-called life form any questions anytime soon :D

Tubalcain
08-01-2004, 07:10 PM
let me ask this question to the peoplethat dont believe in God. if you knew 100%for certain that there was/wasn't a Supreme Being, how would it change your life, or would it.

orangestar
08-01-2004, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by Tubalcain
let me ask this question to the peoplethat dont believe in God. if you knew 100%for certain that there was/wasn't a Supreme Being, how would it change your life, or would it.


If there was a god, I would fear death. he sounds like a mean mofo, sending people to hell for the tiniest things.

Haunted
08-01-2004, 07:33 PM
I don't refer to God as him, but as Her. Also, if I have a question, I read the Tao Teh Jing.

However, my big question would be: Why mosquitos? It's simple, but questions about death are sort of......I don't know...I'll find out when I get there. Asking about mosquitos is sort of a nature question. I'm really interested to know what purpose they serve. Silly, but there are some questions I don't think She'd answer.

MrShape
08-01-2004, 07:43 PM
If there was a god, what would I say to him? . . . WHAT'S WITH THIS AIDS CRAP? WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?

KRUGERKID13
08-01-2004, 07:45 PM
yes theres a god theres no way we were created without the help of a greater being even if people say its science then explain how all the elements needed came about

bwind22
08-01-2004, 07:54 PM
We've already had a fairly similar discussion on another thread, so I'm going to stay out of this one. I will say this though, all of the questions that have been asked so far are answered in the Bible. (Except the mosquito one. That's a good question.)

jay o2 waster
08-01-2004, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by VisionOfBlood
wow! arent we the typical amercian ASSHOLE.(and im an amercian so im allowed to say that). maybe if instead of being a fucking duche bag and read the post instead of critisizing the length of it, you might find it has more intelligence than your pinky finger:D

and almost forgot...there is no god...so i will not be asking an invisible so-called life form any questions anytime soon :D and your calling me ignorant?

jay o2 waster
08-01-2004, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by cheebacheeba
Shut up Jay...yknow one of these days you're gonna have to upgrade to reading more than just signs n comics n'shit...;)


actually I am a readaholic. just this summer i have read

Wicca: A Guide for the Solitary Practitioner by Scott Cunningham
Living Wicca: A Further Guide for the Solitary Practitioner by Scott Cunningham

The Devil's Notebook by Anton Szandor LaVey
and
The Hellbound Heart by Clive Barker

I am Currently reading 2010 The second oddyse

as far as comics, i love me some manga:p

VisionOfBlood
08-01-2004, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by jay o2 waster
and your calling me ignorant?

no i called you an asshole. and as for ignorant i am not. i do not believe in god and i havent for a good 9 yrs. i was baptized catholic and have not and will not attend church. therefore i am not ignorant. I AM JUST AN ATHEIST! you dumbfuck:D

jay o2 waster
08-01-2004, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by VisionOfBlood
no i called you an asshole. and as for ignorant i am not. i do not believe in god and i havent for a good 9 yrs. i was baptized catholic and have not and will not attend church. therefore i am not ignorant. I AM JUST AN ATHEIST! you dumbfuck:D is this supposed to impress me

fluffho
08-01-2004, 09:56 PM
i believe in god
because i believe i am god. i belive in me duh

but really. i do believe in a god. not so much good and eivl type stuff. just kinda hangin out chillin.. like rome gods they just watched the people and laughed at them and played tricks

mothermold
08-01-2004, 10:06 PM
i suppose if there's evil(which there is)then there's gotta be good.

jay o2 waster
08-01-2004, 10:08 PM
what about medevil

mothermold
08-01-2004, 10:10 PM
i don't know him.

KRUGERKID13
08-01-2004, 10:10 PM
everyone knows theres a god atheists just like being different

orangestar
08-01-2004, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by KRUGERKID13
everyone knows theres a god atheists just like being different


wow. you just lost any respect I had for you.

KRUGERKID13
08-01-2004, 10:22 PM
are you serious why

jay o2 waster
08-01-2004, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by KRUGERKID13
everyone knows theres a god atheists just like being different ouch

orangestar
08-01-2004, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by KRUGERKID13
are you serious why

are you kidding? I dont "like being different". What I really dont like is living my life based on believing in a fairy tale.

jay o2 waster
08-01-2004, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by KRUGERKID13
are you serious why Seriously, i even felt a blow by that and im not even an Athiest

KRUGERKID13
08-01-2004, 10:25 PM
wow i just lost all respect i had of you

explain how you think its a fairy tale

also how do you think we all came about

jay o2 waster
08-01-2004, 10:27 PM
ME think i was created by The Goddess

orangestar
08-01-2004, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by KRUGERKID13
wow i just lost all respect i had of you

explain how you think its a fairy tale

also how do you think we all came about

this is all explained in that one thread a while back...about believing in god or something. Im not going to argue about it here. I just wish I had some other atheists on to back me up. wheres Kpro when I need him....

KRUGERKID13
08-01-2004, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by orangestar
If there was a god, I would fear death. he sounds like a mean mofo, sending people to hell for the tiniest things.

tiniest thing yeah cause murders a real small offense


also god forgives so if you believe then he will forgive yo for those tiny things

jay o2 waster
08-01-2004, 10:31 PM
omg i jus remembered, The Terrence Mckenna's theory says that man evolved when primates ingested Psilocybin mushrooms and gained a consciousness.

thats an intresting concept

fluffho
08-01-2004, 10:32 PM
your god turned lot's wife into salt just for being curious.... and told abraham to kill his son then goes JUST TESTING

fuck your god. i like mine :D

KRUGERKID13
08-01-2004, 10:33 PM
this is bullshit you guys get onto to people for making racist comments but then you make these remarks bashing religions you know whaat i dont care cause itll be you guys burning in hell come time of judgment

jay o2 waster
08-01-2004, 10:34 PM
i wanna be turned into choclate, fluff knows why

fluffho
08-01-2004, 10:35 PM
u can insult atheists im sure u can take it too

jay o2 waster
08-01-2004, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by KRUGERKID13
this is bullshit you guys get onto to people for making racist comments but then you make these remarks bashing religions you know whaat i dont care cause itll be you guys burning in hell come time of judgment hey now, I'm not a Christian, but that hurts

KRUGERKID13
08-01-2004, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by fluffho
u can insult atheists im sure u can take it too

after orange said my god was mean

also jay that wasnt supposed to be directed towards you

jay o2 waster
08-01-2004, 10:41 PM
this is heading down a very bad road, that could possiably lead to bannings if it is continued, so lets all just agree to disagree, please?:(

KRUGERKID13
08-01-2004, 10:41 PM
yeah lets

jay o2 waster
08-01-2004, 10:43 PM
we are half way there....

Orangesexystar, what do you say?

fluffho
08-01-2004, 10:46 PM
i say HOORAYYYYY!!!!!

mothermold
08-01-2004, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by jay o2 waster
this is heading down a very bad road, that could possiably lead to bannings if it is continued, so lets all just agree to disagree, please?:(

lol...good show.:)

jay o2 waster
08-01-2004, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by mothermold
lol...good show.:) what does that mean?

KRUGERKID13
08-01-2004, 10:50 PM
orangestar leave

mothermold
08-01-2004, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by jay o2 waster
what does that mean?

...good show=good job,well done etc.

jay o2 waster
08-01-2004, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by mothermold
...good show=good job,well done etc. ooo i get ya:D

ShankS
08-01-2004, 11:10 PM
If I talked to God, I wonder whether he'd help me.

wufong
08-01-2004, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by fluffho
your god turned lot's wife into salt just for being curious.... and told abraham to kill his son then goes JUST TESTING

fuck your god. i like mine :D
for one lots wife was a slut so who cares that she died.
and twothere is only one god. atheist are just chicken shit sheep who are to scared to believe in god. besides if your god is so good how come he didn't stop us ( followers of the one true god) from killing his/hers followers?

fluffho
08-01-2004, 11:23 PM
thats the magic of my god..

people r born into each of their religions taught 'this is the one true way and everyone else is wrong'

so who the hell si right then? so my god just hangs out and like i said eralier, lets shit happen, maybe plays a little tricks some time

its just like mommy and daddy. they got to let us go sometime so we can go live life. what fun is life is someones sitting there not leting us figure ou diseases on our own, fight our own fights, etc..

u need the bad to really appreacitae the good.

Lucid Dreams
08-02-2004, 12:27 AM
wow, that really turned into something...well something...lol...and by the way...atheists aren't looking for a way to be different...there could be a shit load of reasons that turn them off of the reason that there could be a god....it could just be the fact of it being too much to think about a guy controlling every person on the earth and what they do, or "listening" to their prayers...or it could be something horrible happend to them or someone they love and it may have inflicted the to than just lose all faith....for instance...when someones dying in a hospital...if christian(or related religions that have such things as priets or wutevr the other names their called" they may usually have a priest come and visit them...read them some lines from that book(the name slipped my mind) and than he'll but the cross upon their head and usually end it with a "Have Faith, God is with you" or something to that extent...but if that person does die...and you were close to them...don't you think that having that happen could sometimes make people look at the world differently and make them lose their faith...now of course this is not the same for every person but you have to look at it from different aspects without criticizing other people about their beliefs...we all have rights to believe and say what our opinions and there's no reason to get upset about what one person says about your god...if you have faith for it..than good for you, and just don't acknowlege it...but the fact is....we should just be able to say what our opinions are without getting slaughtered by people says 'How could you?!" or any of that other load of shit....just respect it and if you want to...go ahead...ask them why they think this...but don't fucking get all bitchy about it...

Je Suis Phnomne
08-02-2004, 06:19 AM
KrugerKid, are you absolutely positive that the bible is right?

Je Suis Phnomne
08-02-2004, 06:20 AM
And that every word of it can be taken literally to understand God's creation plan for mankind?

Egekrusher
08-02-2004, 06:23 AM
Originally posted by wufong
for one lots wife was a slut so who cares that she died.
and twothere is only one god. atheist are just chicken shit sheep who are to scared to believe in god. besides if your god is so good how come he didn't stop us ( followers of the one true god) from killing his/hers followers?

The maturity we discussed.. yeah, it's back down in the negative range.

You have a very fucked up view on life. I pity you.

Je Suis Phnomne
08-02-2004, 06:32 AM
Originally posted by Egekrusher
The maturity we discussed.. yeah, it's back down in the negative range.

You have a very fucked up view on life. I pity you.

I wouldnt offer the "believers" pity Ege, if anything I see it as crowd control. The activities I enjoy and the places I enjoy to visit I know are not going to be overcrowded with these types of people thereby ensuring that I will enjoy myself.

They are usually so quick to condemn *hmmmmmm not very understanding there* and call Athiests sheep *hmmmmmm sounds awfully judgemental* and that we are too afraid to believe in something *hmmmmm sounds alot like FREE WILL to me*

bwind22
08-02-2004, 08:42 AM
I look through this thread and see about a hundred different issues/problems that could/should be addressed, but I'm only going to address these ones...

1. Atheists aren't sheep, they are people who, for one reason or another don't believe in God. They are entitled to freedom of religion so I don't think they should be criticized for it.

2. KK13, My beliefs are along the same lines as yours, meaning I diagree with alot of what's been said, but that's not any reason to judge people. You saying they'll burn in hell is wrong by all Christian standards. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

3. Je Suis, Most Christians do not believe that every single word of the Bible should be taken literally. It is a good book containing stories and anecdotes that will help us to lead good lives.

4. God does not send people to Hell for 'tiny' things. Stealing a pack of gum will not land you in Hell. The only way for a soul to be damned to Hell is if they die with a mortal sin on their soul. Mortal sin = Major sin (Murder, Adultery, Rape, etc...)

5. Jay's theory from Terrence McKenna is an interesting one. I've never heard that one before, but it makes for some good deep thinking... :D

6. Fluff, you missed the point of the two biblical stories you mentioned. No offense, but it's clear you haven't read either of them.

7. Je Suis, your last post seems like you don't like having generalizations made about you, but at the same time you are making quite a few inaccurate ones about Christians. (Obviously, they hold true for some, but not all. That's where generalizations come from.)


Okay that's it. I'm done rambling.

meetthecreeper
08-02-2004, 09:45 AM
For everyone an interesting read-"Chariots of the Gods" by Erich Von Daniken, I dont necessarily agree with it but an interesting perspective none the less.

I have nothing against Christianity but I will say that more people have been killed in its name than any other religion aka The Crusades, The Inquisition, Salem Witch Trials etc.

Everyone has there own belief system weather it be Christian, Atheist, Muslim, Pagan, Wiccan or whatever. Personally I believe in The God and Goddess and a deep follower of Wicca with a touch of the teachings of the Druid Merlyn.

I have seen way too much in life and expirienced first hand to not believe that there is something besides us in life and that the Gods do not have a hand in things.

I feel that it is arrogant to think that all that there is in the universe is us and nothing else. We once thought that the earth was the center of the universe and that the earth was flat and so on. I guess we will all find out when we pass on.

fluffho
08-02-2004, 10:38 AM
"religion is the opium of the masses"

true back then, true today

Arioch
08-02-2004, 11:12 AM
everyone knows theres a god atheists just like being different

this is bullshit you guys get onto to people for making racist comments but then you make these remarks bashing religions you know whaat i dont care cause itll be you guys burning in hell come time of judgment

orangestar leave

Regaurdless of my opinions on the issues, KK13, your out of line....everyone else seems to be able to discuss the issues calmly, and your resorting to condemnation, preaching, and telling people to leave this thread? That wasn't even started by you none-the-less....

Just tone it down a bit....i realize you feel like your in the minority here, and you have to stand up for what you believe is right, but you dont have to try and destroy what OTHER people believe is right.....they have just as much right to their religion (or lack there of) as you....

You have no right saying some of the things you said....

Stingy Jack
08-02-2004, 02:49 PM
I'd like to respond to the micro-discussion on "why some people are atheists."

For me, I'm an atheist not out of any traumatic event or the idea that "it's too much to think about a god listening to everybody's prayers."

Atheism is the road I have taken out of a natural tendency to not believe bullshit. It's like Santa Claus ... only nobody ever told the grown-ups the truth, so they went on believing in god and passed the idea down to their children.

I am surprised that so many people find it so hard to understand Atheism.

1. There is absolutely NO evidence of god. None whatsoever, apart from what was written in a book. Why believe in something when you have no basis for your belief? How CAN you believe it? That's what I want to know. And don't say: "I have faith." Yeah, well, I have faith that I'll live through tomorrow ... doesn't mean it's true. Certainly not true enough to condemn people for.

2. Science has been pushing religion around for centuries. Christianity had to change it's teachings based on the discoveries of science countless times. And yet, spiritualists will still say science is wrong and they are right (wufong). The only things the Christians have dominion over now are: a) How everything came to be; and b) What happens after death. But, it is only a matter of time before science answers THESE questions as well, and, if it follows the same trend, will prove spiritualists wrong about these. Why do you adhere to a set of teachings that were supposedly "Divine Truth" when they were first formed, but then proven to be incorrect?

3. It seems to me that spiritualists are pretty gullible. I would like to see exactly how far you can go to see what they'll believe. If I concocted some lame ass story about fungus beasts living in the mountains, and showed them some book I made that told all about them .... then, they should believe it. At least, that seems to be all it takes. They need no further evidence. And they think we atheists are messed up! lol

4. Actually, it seems to me that many people believe what they WANT to believe, without consideration for what truly is. I've known people who actually believe in undead vampires, just because they think such creatures are cool .... and they want them to be real SO BADLY! It just seems more intellectually sound to start with what you know to be true, and build your knowledge from there. Don't add anything to your belief system that has no basis in what you already know to be true.

5. This leads to what I will say to god (if I am wrong, and he actually wants to hear what I have to say):

"God, what the hell is the matter with you? Why do you make "faith" the prime criteria for getting into heaven, and then make us different from beasts by giving us the ability to reason?? That was a nasty trick. You give us the gift of reason and then send us to hell when we use it. Fuck you."

**** One final thing on the Christian idea of justice and "death-bed conversions:"

Let's say that two people die. One is a person like myself. A teacher, spends his life serving the community, never does anybody wrong. He dies an atheist. The other is a serial killer and raper of children. He was convicted on several counts of murder and rape, and was sentenced to death. However, while in the slammer, he begins to hear about Christ and all that. Then, right as he's about to be nuked in the chair, he sincerely asks God to forgive him of his sins.

According to the Christians, the first person will go to hell and the second will go to heaven.

That's a pretty fucked up view of justice, if you ask me.

Stingy Jack
08-02-2004, 03:00 PM
Sorry for the somewhat long, defensive and possibly offensive post. I just get irked when I hear things like: "Atheists just want to be different" or "Atheists are just fucked in the head" or "Atheists are too scared to believe in God." I thought it was time to try to explain where most of us atheists are coming from, and I wrote it while in a slightly teed-off mood.

So, apologies all around.

Lucid Dreams
08-02-2004, 03:17 PM
very well written Stingy...and i'm sure a lot of thought was put into that...verry good, now more people should understand atheists more, or the perspective of it

bwind22
08-02-2004, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by Stingy Jack
**** One final thing on the Christian idea of justice and "death-bed conversions:"

Let's say that two people die. One is a person like myself. A teacher, spends his life serving the community, never does anybody wrong. He dies an atheist. The other is a serial killer and raper of children. He was convicted on several counts of murder and rape, and was sentenced to death. However, while in the slammer, he begins to hear about Christ and all that. Then, right as he's about to be nuked in the chair, he sincerely asks God to forgive him of his sins.

According to the Christians, the first person will go to hell and the second will go to heaven.

That's a pretty fucked up view of justice, if you ask me.

Yep, that's true. From Christianity's standpoint, you're right.


The reason being that God is willing to forgive sins. All the atheist would need to do to join the sinner in Heaven would be to ask God for forgiveness. (Since he is an atheist, he probably wouldn't do that, but in theory, he could be right there side by side with the sinner in Heaven just by asking God to forgive him.)

The atheist's refusal to acknowledge/believe in God is what will end up costing him in the end (In Christianity's viewpoint). It's not that they couldn't ask God to forgive their sins, it's that wouldn't.

Scarymovie411
08-02-2004, 04:01 PM
Man, we are all lucky...Jesus died for our sins...If he wouldn't have been killed then we would all go to hell....

Arioch
08-02-2004, 05:42 PM
4. Actually, it seems to me that many people believe what they WANT to believe, without consideration for what truly is. I've known people who actually believe in undead vampires, just because they think such creatures are cool .... and they want them to be real SO BADLY! It just seems more intellectually sound to start with what you know to be true, and build your knowledge from there. Don't add anything to your belief system that has no basis in what you already know to be true.

I too know these people:rolleyes: ...

Very good points stingy, and Bwind....i consistently enjoy reading BOTH of your posts on controversial issues around the board....You both are the model for posters on both sides of the issues.....goodform guys....

Unit 03
08-02-2004, 05:53 PM
ALright smarty pants religious hooligans, Answere me this

Gos is all powerful right
God is all loving right
God is perfect right

All loving meaning not wanting us people to know or feel evil or hate or negative things.

Why then would he allow a world that lets evil exists? Free will you say? Well then if he is all powerful than he could make a world without evil but still have free will.

Answere? He is either not all powerful, all loving, or not perfect.

As far as all this atheist just want to be different? Don't make me laugh, Just because YOU have to conform and be a mindless drone doesn't mean that all us no believers just want to be different. It could be perhaps *gasp* that we arn't so easily pulled into conformity by the masses and convinced of such fantasy and nonsence as that of which the Bible tells us.

Tubalcain
08-02-2004, 06:43 PM
I've never met an atheist that, having just been kicked in the nuts, wont fall to the ground moaning, "OHHH GODDDDDDDD!"

Lucid Dreams
08-02-2004, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by Tubalcain
I've never met an atheist that, having just been kicked in the nuts, wont fall to the ground moaning, "OHHH GODDDDDDDD!"

yaa...4 me its like "AHH FUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK"

VisionOfBlood
08-02-2004, 07:26 PM
look my boyfriend started this thread and i wish he didnt b/c everything discussed in this thread i have delt with in either school, with my holy roller relatives, or with just random assholes about religion. i cant stand it. religion and god and the bible shit to me is a bunch of bullshit. plain and simple. god or whoever the fuck is the supreme being hasnt done jack shit for me. ive gone through relatives dyin of horrible diseases to my own shit. for example im goin on my 4th knee surgery from a school injury.

WHERE THE FUCK HAS GOD BEEN THIS WHOLE TIME IM IN PAIN PLAYING BRIDGE WITH LUCY AND ETHEL?!? WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO PRAY THAT I DONT HAVE ARTHRITUS??! I MEAN CMON, WTF!?! IF THERE WAS SOMEONE LIKE GOD OR WHATEVER THAN BAD SHIT LIKE THIS WOULDNT HAPPEN TO ANYONE. IF THERE IS A GOD THEN WTF IS HE DOING WHEN PEOPLE ARE DYING OF AIDS, CANCER, FATHEM(SP?), AND SO MANY MORE HORRIFFIC DISEASES AND PROBLEMS ON THIS SHIT PLANET!

this is why i havent believed in any religion or any god for at least 9 years, maybe more;and im only 16 yrs old. so what does that tell you. it tells me that if there is a god then he better get the fuck off his fat ass and do something with this fucking world. we have wars, death, starvation and it just doesnt have to be, if there is a god he better get his ass in gear and fix this shit. im just sick of hearing religion bullshit. ive heard it all my life because my parents didnt put me throught ccd or communion or conformation or what ever the fuck that shit is. and if not attending church or ccd has made me an atheist then fine. i am what i am. IF ANYONE DOESNT LIKE IT, THEN FUCK OFF.

Stingy Jack
08-02-2004, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by VisionOfBlood
look my boyfriend started this thread and i wish he didnt b/c everything discussed in this thread i have delt with in either school, with my holy roller relatives, or with just random assholes about religion. i cant stand it. religion and god and the bible shit to me is a bunch of bullshit. plain and simple. god or whoever the fuck is the supreme being hasnt done jack shit for me. ive gone through relatives dyin of horrible diseases to my own shit. for example im goin on my 4th knee surgery from a school injury.

WHERE THE FUCK HAS GOD BEEN THIS WHOLE TIME IM IN PAIN PLAYING BRIDGE WITH LUCY AND ETHEL?!? WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO PRAY THAT I DONT HAVE ARTHRITUS??! I MEAN CMON, WTF!?! IF THERE WAS SOMEONE LIKE GOD OR WHATEVER THAN BAD SHIT LIKE THIS WOULDNT HAPPEN TO ANYONE. IF THERE IS A GOD THEN WTF IS HE DOING WHEN PEOPLE ARE DYING OF AIDS, CANCER, FATHEM(SP?), AND SO MANY MORE HORRIFFIC DISEASES AND PROBLEMS ON THIS SHIT PLANET!

this is why i havent believed in any religion or any god for at least 9 years, maybe more;and im only 16 yrs old. so what does that tell you. it tells me that if there is a god then he better get the fuck off his fat ass and do something with this fucking world. we have wars, death, starvation and it just doesnt have to be, if there is a god he better get his ass in gear and fix this shit. im just sick of hearing religion bullshit. ive heard it all my life because my parents didnt put me throught ccd or communion or conformation or what ever the fuck that shit is. and if not attending church or ccd has made me an atheist then fine. i am what i am. IF ANYONE DOESNT LIKE IT, THEN FUCK OFF.

For only being 16, you have been through a lot of pain. That must really suck (and from the angry tone inherent in your post, it obviously does.) First, I am an atheist (you'd know if you read my first post on this thread). But, the Christian will tell you (and this is the most common answer I have gotten when I've asked this question) is that "it is all in God's plan." I understand what this means, although I don't buy it. Supposedly, God allows "evil" for whatever reason. Some may say that he MUST allow evil, otherwise there can be no good. Everything would just be "normal". No good, no bad. You can't have "good" without something to compare it against. Some may say that the human existence is very short in comparison with eternity, and the things we view as massive (like wars, plagues, etc.) actually cause very little suffering in comparison with the bliss offered in heaven. Plus, these are necessary evils. It would be pretty easy to get into heaven if you lived in a world where nothing existed to tempt your faith. But, God doesn't want it to be easy to get into heaven. Even though he loves you with an infinite amount of divine love .... he still wants to make it hard as hell for you to get into heaven to be with him.

For the atheist, there is no "good" and "evil" outside of human perception. We term things "good" and "evil" according to how they affect us. Therefore, if we were not here, good and evil would not be here either. For example, I watched my cat practically torture a mouse for half an hour before finally doing it in. It was horrifying, and I felt bad for the mouse ... but, I wasn't about to touch it and it needed to get its ass out of my house. I would not say that my cat was evil. Nor would I say that my cat was good if it left the mouse alone. BUT .... if I saw a person treating a mouse inhumanely just for amusement's sake, then I would likely call that person "evil." See? "Good" and "evil" are judgement terms used simply to describe human beings in relation to their actions. No people ... no "good" and "evil."

jay o2 waster
08-02-2004, 08:13 PM
you always now what to say don't ya stingy:D

Stingy Jack
08-02-2004, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by bwind22
Yep, that's true. From Christianity's standpoint, you're right.


The reason being that God is willing to forgive sins. All the atheist would need to do to join the sinner in Heaven would be to ask God for forgiveness. (Since he is an atheist, he probably wouldn't do that, but in theory, he could be right there side by side with the sinner in Heaven just by asking God to forgive him.)

The atheist's refusal to acknowledge/believe in God is what will end up costing him in the end (In Christianity's viewpoint). It's not that they couldn't ask God to forgive their sins, it's that wouldn't.

Well, it's not so much a downright refusal to believe in God. Believe me, the whole idea sounds quite nice. I would not mind living for eternity in bliss. Not one bit. The whole problem comes down to that I can't believe it. Even if I wanted to. I simply don't buy it, and will never believe it. So, I could utter "God, please forgive me for my sins and allow Jesus Christ into my heart, to have and to hold, till death do us part" and all that on my deathbed ... but, I would still go to hell because I didn't believe a word of it. You see? So, even though I'm a good guy, the Christian will say that I will go to hell for something that I can't really help. I mean, I would LOVE to believe that ghosts and zombies and vampires and all that horror shit was real. I really wish it was. But, I can't run around like some folks do trying to fool myself into thinking I live in some sort of fantasy world. My brain just isn't wired that way, I guess.

wufong
08-02-2004, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by Je Suis Phnomne
KrugerKid, are you absolutely positive that the bible is right?
are you absolutley positive that its wrong?

wufong
08-02-2004, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by Egekrusher
The maturity we discussed.. yeah, it's back down in the negative range.

You have a very fucked up view on life. I pity you.
why is it a fucked up view? cause its different from yours?

wufong
08-02-2004, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by meetthecreeper
For everyone an interesting read-"Chariots of the Gods" by Erich Von Daniken, I dont necessarily agree with it but an interesting perspective none the less.

I have nothing against Christianity but I will say that more people have been killed in its name than any other religion aka The Crusades, The Inquisition, Salem Witch Trials etc.
don't forget the great atheist stalin. he made hitler ( who also said he viewed religion as a crutch (sp)) look like a sunday school teacher. add up the crusades inquisitions witch trials etc doesn't come near to how many people died in the name of Communism.

VisionOfBlood
08-02-2004, 10:39 PM
im having my boyfriend delete this retarded thread. ASAP!

cheebacheeba
08-02-2004, 10:39 PM
Or just in the name of religion, period...

wufong
08-02-2004, 10:40 PM
Originally posted by VisionOfBlood

this is why i havent believed in any religion or any god for at least 9 years, maybe more;and im only 16 yrs old. so what does that tell you. it tells me that if there is a god then he better get the fuck off his fat ass and do something with this fucking world. we have wars, death, starvation and it just doesnt have to be, if there is a god he better get his ass in gear and fix this shit. [/B] if he did. you atheist would be crying about having no free will.

wufong
08-02-2004, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by fluffho
thats the magic of my god..

people r born into each of their religions taught 'this is the one true way and everyone else is wrong'

so who the hell si right then? so my god just hangs out and like i said eralier, lets shit happen, maybe plays a little tricks some time

its just like mommy and daddy. they got to let us go sometime so we can go live life. what fun is life is someones sitting there not leting us figure ou diseases on our own, fight our own fights, etc..

u need the bad to really appreacitae the good.
so according to your god people who rape, murder etc are ok they are just having fun and deserve to g oto "heaven"?

VisionOfBlood
08-02-2004, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by wufong
if he did. you atheist would be crying about having no free will.

if you havent noticed the right wing jerkoffs who are running our country are trying to take that away.

and on another note:
SHUT THE FUCK UP BUDDY, YOU DONT KNOW SHIT FROM SHINOLA!

wufong
08-02-2004, 10:48 PM
the way i see it. most atheist here are atheist cause the world isn't a perfect place.
it seems ya are all like
"boo hoo there is no god cause im ugly or boo hoo there is no god cause i'm fat. if there was a god i would be pretty and skinny waaaaa waaaa" ffs get over it already people get ill and die. people get killed in wars. build a bridge and get over it. and stop blaming god for the doings of man.

VisionOfBlood
08-02-2004, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by wufong
the way i see it. most atheist here are atheist cause the world isn't a perfect place.
it seems ya are all like
"boo hoo there is no god cause im ugly or boo hoo there is no god cause i'm fat. if there was a god i would be pretty and skinny waaaaa waaaa" ffs get over it already people get ill and die. people get killed in wars. build a bridge and get over it. and stop blaming god for the doings of man.

what the fuck are you talking about. people just dont become atheist because theyre fat or ugly. GET YOU HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS AND WAKE THE FUCK UP PAL.

wufong
08-02-2004, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by VisionOfBlood
if you havent noticed the right wing jerkoffs who are running our country are trying to take that away.

and on another note:
SHUT THE FUCK UP BUDDY, YOU DONT KNOW SHIT FROM SHINOLA!
pull ya head out of ya ass. so what ? who gives a fuck what the right wing is doing....? don't like don't vote for them. it's a lot more effective thing to do than sitting on the net crying like the fat pimpley assed cellar dwelling mommys boy that you are.:D

wufong
08-02-2004, 10:55 PM
did i say all? no ya dyslexic piece of shit i didn't

VisionOfBlood
08-02-2004, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by wufong
pull ya head out of ya ass. so what ? who gives a fuck what the right wing is doing....? don't like don't vote for them. it's a lot more effective thing to do than sitting on the net crying like the fat pimpley assed cellar dwelling mommys boy that you are.:D

HEY ASSHOLE IF YA HAVENT NOTICED THE FUCKING GALLERY IM A GIRL. YOU FUCKING DUMB ASS!

GOOD YA KNOW WHAT I HOPE YOU GET A GIRL PREGNANT AND SHE CANT HAVE AN ABORTION B/C GEORGE BUSH GOT RE-ELECTED AND MADE IT ILLEGAL. THEN YOU'LL REALLY BE SORRY AND THEN MAYBE THINK THERE IS NO FUCKING GOD AND BECOME ATHEIST. YOU GOD LOVING PRIEST BLOWING SON OF BITCH!

wufong
08-02-2004, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by VisionOfBlood
HEY ASSHOLE IF YA HAVENT NOTICED THE FUCKING GALLERY IM A GIRL. YOU FUCKING DUMB ASS!

GOOD YA KNOW WHAT I HOPE YOU GET A GIRL PREGNANT AND SHE CANT HAVE AN ABORTION B/C GEORGE BUSH GOT RE-ELECTED AND MADE IT ILLEGAL. THEN YOU'LL REALLY BE SORRY AND THEN MAYBE THINK THERE IS NO FUCKING GOD AND BECOME ATHEIST. YOU GOD LOVING PRIEST BLOWING SON OF BITCH! well no i haven't noticed. maybe because i couldn't be bothered finding anything out about every new member who comes here. and you ougth to be glad that abortions are hard to get otherwise i doubt you would be here. and why would i give a shit if i got a girl pregnant. if ididn't want aything to do with it iwouldn't. and anyway why would i become a atheist cause some ho couldn't get a kid cut up inside her then vacumed out? stop flipping ya bean.
OOOOOOO so you don't believe in god cause you're fat and ugly. you don't believe cause you were unable to get a abortion? ooooooook i got it now.

VisionOfBlood
08-02-2004, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by wufong
well no i haven't noticed. maybe because i couldn't be bothered finding anything out about every new member who comes here. and you ougth to be glad that abortions are hard to get otherwise i doubt you would be here. and why would i give a shit if i got a girl pregnant. if ididn't want aything to do with it iwouldn't. and anyway why would i become a atheist cause some ho couldn't get a kid cut up inside her then vacumed out? stop flipping ya bean.
OOOOOOO so you don't believe in god cause you're fat and ugly. you don't believe cause you were unable to get a abortion? ooooooook i got it now.

are you black or just a wigger b/c ya sure as hell type like one.

oh by the way...i was planned not half-aborted like yourself :D

fluffho
08-02-2004, 11:16 PM
Originally posted by wufong
so according to your god people who rape, murder etc are ok they are just having fun and deserve to g oto "heaven"?

i never siad that. nor do i condone any of those things

i take a satanistic point of view in this case. i believe everyone should do whatever it is that makes them happy, be it perform surgery, save animals, kill people etc.. the important thing being to take into consideration the effect itl have on others and any possible consequences and go from there

i guess its kinda like all these fucks around me that done kille themself. iwatched that bio on that band.. mayhem i think. where euronymous killed himself oen day. the bandmates said something like 'thats the way he wanted to go and we wouldnt have it any other way'

just like that i guess. for whatever reason jeffrey dhamre was very happy killing people so if thats what he wanted to do fine, just eventually he knew he was gona get caught and end up in jail..

VisionOfBlood
08-02-2004, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by fluffho
i never siad that. nor do i condone any of those things

i take a satanistic point of view in this case. i believe everyone should do whatever it is that makes them happy, be it perform surgery, save animals, kill people etc.. the important thing being to take into consideration the effect itl have on others and any possible consequences and go from there

i guess its kinda like all these fucks around me that done kille themself. iwatched that bio on that band.. mayhem i think. where euronymous killed himself oen day. the bandmates said something like 'thats the way he wanted to go and we wouldnt have it any other way'

just like that i guess. for whatever reason jeffrey dhamre was very happy killing people so if thats what he wanted to do fine, just eventually he knew he was gona get caught and end up in jail..


fluff dont mind him he's just an asshole who likes to make people listen to his half-assed opions on christianity, because he's a mongoloid.

bwind22
08-02-2004, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by VisionOfBlood
HEY ASSHOLE IF YA HAVENT NOTICED THE FUCKING GALLERY IM A GIRL. YOU FUCKING DUMB ASS!

GOOD YA KNOW WHAT I HOPE YOU GET A GIRL PREGNANT AND SHE CANT HAVE AN ABORTION B/C GEORGE BUSH GOT RE-ELECTED AND MADE IT ILLEGAL. THEN YOU'LL REALLY BE SORRY AND THEN MAYBE THINK THERE IS NO FUCKING GOD AND BECOME ATHEIST. YOU GOD LOVING PRIEST BLOWING SON OF BITCH!



Wow! Who can argue with a comment like that?

1- You're assuming Bush will get re-elected.

2- You're also assuming that he'll be able to outlaw abortions. He won't. It will not happen.

3- You're writing in caps and that's just annoying.

4- You are taking a debate with a stranger over an internet horror forum personally. Chill the fuck out.

VisionOfBlood
08-02-2004, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by bwind22
Wow! Who can argue with a comment like that?

1- You're assuming Bush will get re-elected.

2- You're also assuming that he'll be able to outlaw abortions. He won't. It will not happen.

3- You're writing in caps and that's just annoying.

4- You are taking a debate with a stranger over an internet horror forum personally. Chill the fuck out.

havent you heard the phrase "everything is a possibility"?...guess ya havent

bwind22
08-02-2004, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by fluffho
i never siad that. nor do i condone any of those things

i take a satanistic point of view in this case. i believe everyone should do whatever it is that makes them happy, be it perform surgery, save animals, kill people etc.. the important thing being to take into consideration the effect itl have on others and any possible consequences and go from there

i guess its kinda like all these fucks around me that done kille themself. iwatched that bio on that band.. mayhem i think. where euronymous killed himself oen day. the bandmates said something like 'thats the way he wanted to go and we wouldnt have it any other way'

just like that i guess. for whatever reason jeffrey dhamre was very happy killing people so if thats what he wanted to do fine, just eventually he knew he was gona get caught and end up in jail..


Fluff, what's your point? Are you saying that you think Jeffrey Dahmer was alright or will go to heaven because he was doing something he liked? If so, that's wiggity wiggity whack y'all! You think that if someone likes to murder people then, it's okay? What the hell you smokin' girl? (And can I have some?)

Is your religion an actual religion or just your own personal beliefs?

bwind22
08-02-2004, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by VisionOfBlood
havent you heard the phrase "everything is a possibility"?...guess ya havent

You're right. I haven't. Is that kind of like the phrase "Anything's possible." ?

VisionOfBlood
08-02-2004, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by bwind22
You're right. I haven't. Is that kind of like the phrase "Anything's possible." ?

yea actually it is. and thanx for being a complete smart ass and correcting me like that:D

fluffho
08-02-2004, 11:28 PM
did i say hes going to heaven?

this is my belief in a nutshell. what is right and wrong? what is time? perceptions.. concepts, there is no 'is' there is just what we think 'is'

somewhere in jeffreys] mind he thought what he was doing was ok and it made him happy. to us thats weird, happiness to us is chocolate or sex with our loved one. to him happiness was sex witha corpse.

just like christians, witnesses, and i dunno what else.. luitherans. Mormons.. you are all born a certain way and taught 'this is the right way and everyone else is for sinners' and u all look at each other and think the others are all wrong and everyone is weird but you

look at richard ramirez.. he wasnt an only child, he had brothers and sisters and for whatever reason he loved to kill people whereas the rest of his family was fine. why? i dotn know, humans are strange creatures.. thats why psych is such a popular major.

Do i condone any of these actions? no. do ihave thoughts on heaven. not really, i dont believe in some 'paradise' that im headed to later. what i believe in, is that if i want paradise, ill make it now.

bwind22
08-02-2004, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by VisionOfBlood
yea actually it is. and thanx for being a complete smart ass and correcting me like that:D

;) That's what I'm here for.

bwind22
08-02-2004, 11:50 PM
Hey VisionofBlood, answer this question for me if you don't mind...

If you are so anti-God and a self proclaimed atheist, why does your AOL screem name refer to Christianity? CaptorofSin.

wufong
08-02-2004, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by VisionOfBlood
are you black or just a wigger b/c ya sure as hell type like one.

oh by the way...i was planned not half-aborted like yourself :D
are you saying blacks can't type? how racist. you leave me with out a doubt that the best part of you ran down ya mothers leg.

Stingy Jack
08-03-2004, 05:32 AM
Wufong, I typed a trademarked "Long Post" on why most atheists are atheists, if you care to read it. It is my first post on this thread. Maybe then you can be a little more informed before you start spouting even more unfounded beliefs as truth ... in this case: "Waa waa waa there is no god because I'm fat and ugly" or "Waa waa waa there is no god because there are wars and bad things and life is hard." By the way, for someone who claims to be a model Christian, you sure do have a shallow look at life and other people. Time and again I have read posts from you where you insult those that you consider to be "ugly." Not a very understanding nor loving person, are you?

And I don't recall ever seeing you post a picture of yourself. Don't worry about what you look like, wu. Very few of us here are as shallow as you are.

Vodstok
08-03-2004, 05:39 AM
The racist part kills me considering how many deragatory remarks wufong has made about Jews....:rolleyes:


I think i would ask God what he thought about all the horrors committed in his name. or Her name. or it's name.

Stingy Jack
08-03-2004, 09:03 AM
Actually, I had an interesting conversation last summer with a gentleman who claimed to be an "ethical monotheist." His view, basically, is that god is what stands for the objective difference between ideals of good and evil, right and wrong, justice and injustice, etc. He says that god's only concern is that we be decent to each other. No threat of hell for silly things like: "You didn't believe in me, so ... regardless of the fact that you were a good person, you still burn." Basically, those people who are decent and treat others with decency, are admitted into heaven. Those who are not will have justice enacted upon them after their deaths. Now this idea of god makes sense to me (even though I don't believe it exists). At least this idea has god actually being more concerned with how we treat other than it is about petty, selfish needs like "Believe in ME!!! Love ME!!! ME ME ME!!!"

Egekrusher
08-03-2004, 09:39 AM
That makes sense to me. That's how I've always envisioned the perfect religion. If there IS a God, and he is all-knowing and all-loving, then why on earth would he want you to worship him? It just doesn't make any sense. Instead, he would just want us to treat each other fairly. I believe that, if there is such a God, and he did indeed hand down the 10 commandments, there were originally no more than 5 handed down directly from him, with those being:

1. Thou shalt not kill unless in self defense.

2. Thou shalt not commit adultery.

3. Thou shalt not rape.

4. Thou shalt not enslave sentient beings.

5. Thou shalt not drive a Ford. :)

Vodstok
08-03-2004, 09:46 AM
i think Elaine Cunningham hit on the perfect god/worshipper relationship in Tangled Webs (sequal to Daughter of the Drow).

In the book, there are "norsemen" who the main character Liriel travels with. In Drow socciety, life is centered around the matriarchal worship of a spider goddess name Lolth. Lolth is a demon goddess. Fealty is everything.

The norsemen have an "arrangement" with theior gods. They do for the gods as long as the gods hold up their end of the bargain and do for them. If they do for the god, and there is no reciprocity, then fuck the god.

There is a great scene at the end *Spoiler* (DO NOT READ LOWER if you have nay intention of reading these books. Which you should, they are awsome)








Where Lireil actually lets Lolth enter her body as an Avatar to defeat their enemy, on the contingency that she does not harm any of lirel's allies.

of course, Lolth is psychotic and evil, so she starts killing everyone. Liriel is able to use the power to weaken the enemy so the fight is owon, then is able to cast out a GOD for breaking the terms of the agreement. its very cool.

fluffho
08-03-2004, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by Stingy Jack
Very few of us here are as shallow as you are.

i am :D

see beautiful, hot, cute thread. lol

ShankS
08-03-2004, 10:09 AM
I just got a reply from god.... he said to me, "Fuck you"

Egekrusher
08-03-2004, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by ShankS
I just got a reply from god.... he said to me, "Fuck you"

That was me.

See location.



<---------

ShankS
08-03-2004, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by Egekrusher
That was me.

See location.



<---------


so you've been ha><0ring god's Pc and sending me false information......... for that you go to hell rararaaahhhha

:D ;)

cheebacheeba
08-03-2004, 10:18 AM
All hail the new god, my mighty nutsack.
Whether swingin' the love your way, or slapping against the ass of evil, praise the nutsack, for it is glorious indeed.

Vodstok
08-03-2004, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by ShankS
so you've been ha><0ring god's Pc and sending me false information......... for that you go to hell rararaaahhhha

:D ;)

Feel ShankS' righteous hell-glory-rage-pain!!!

Egekrusher
08-03-2004, 10:29 AM
Giggle.

*fart*

Vodstok
08-03-2004, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by cheebacheeba
All hail the new god, my mighty nutsack.
Whether swingin' the love your way, or slapping against the ass of evil, praise the nutsack, for it is glorious indeed.

that is oneof the funniest but not0right things i have read today :)

cheebacheeba
08-03-2004, 10:37 AM
He is a good god, a noble god...

ShankS
08-03-2004, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by Vodstok
Feel ShankS' righteous hell-glory-rage-pain!!!


hahaha fucking awesome !!!! :D


i'm gona make that my new avatar :D

Vodstok
08-03-2004, 10:39 AM
Is his name Testicles? (said like "hercules")

cheebacheeba
08-03-2004, 10:40 AM
No, for his name is Scrotius Maximus

ShankS
08-03-2004, 10:44 AM
lol check out me new av..



:D

cheebacheeba
08-03-2004, 10:53 AM
It'd look better with the head upside down, OR, three heads, the other two in or over the hands.

The nemesis is NuTsackula

Vodstok
08-03-2004, 11:01 AM
check this out, i am quite proud of how the pic worked out, here is the original:

Vodstok
08-03-2004, 11:01 AM
and here is Hellshanks

cheebacheeba
08-03-2004, 11:07 AM
"It'd look better with the head upside down, OR, three heads, the other two in or over the hands."

Go on, Vodstok...

Vodstok
08-03-2004, 11:14 AM
Happy? :)

jay o2 waster
08-03-2004, 11:15 AM
man, i wanat ps

cheebacheeba
08-03-2004, 11:16 AM
Shanks...I think we have a replacement....

HappyCamper
08-03-2004, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by orangestar
If there was a god, I would fear death. he sounds like a mean mofo, sending people to hell for the tiniest things.


I for one, believe that there is a God. And the God I Believe in is a God that should be feared. I fear God not because of Death, but because I know he has the power to separate me from him, for Eternity.


EDIT:

I wanted to add, that I as a Christian, make mistakes, I probably make more mistakes than non-Christians, but I try not to make the same mistakes again. And when I do, I know that God will forgive me, no matter what, as long as my heart is pure.

ShankS
08-03-2004, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by Vodstok
Happy? :)

rofl it gets scarrier

Arioch
08-03-2004, 12:40 PM
Well, i was asked to close this thread actually...and would have about 3-4 pages ago as Visions and Wufong had a pretty nice flamewar going on....

But it seems to have settled down now, so we'll see how it turns out....


On a side note, i really wish i had met more Christains like You HC, and you Bwind....if i had i think i would have been alot more open to Christianity throughout my years....

Egekrusher
08-03-2004, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by Arioch
Well, i was asked to close this thread actually...and would have about 3-4 pages ago as Visions and Wufong had a pretty nice flamewar going on....

But it seems to have settled down now, so we'll see how it turns out....


On a side note, i really wish i had met more Christains like You HC, and you Bwind....if i had i think i would have been alot more open to Christianity throughout my years....

Indeed. I find it a rare occurrence that Christians are actually open to civil discussion and are at least willing to consider other theories and beliefs. No offense to Christianity, but it seems that the Christians that I know are much worse morally than the atheists I know.

HappyCamper
08-03-2004, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Egekrusher
Indeed. I find it a rare occurrence that Christians are actually open to civil discussion and are at least willing to consider other theories and beliefs. No offense to Christianity, but it seems that the Christians that I know are much worse morally than the atheists I know.


Thanks! Egekrusher! Yeah being a Christian definitely isn't easy, I find myself having to ask for God's forgiveness every second of every day. And I'm glad that he's there to forgive me. I find that I feel better after I do.

HappyCamper
08-03-2004, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by Arioch
Well, i was asked to close this thread actually...and would have about 3-4 pages ago as Visions and Wufong had a pretty nice flamewar going on....

But it seems to have settled down now, so we'll see how it turns out....


On a side note, i really wish i had met more Christains like You HC, and you Bwind....if i had i think i would have been alot more open to Christianity throughout my years....


Thanks! Yeah I wish you had too. Unfortunately there are alot of Christians out there that believe the appropriate way to spread the gospel is to 'scream' at non-believers that they're going to hell. I believe the appropriate way is to love them, for just being themselves, and if and when God guides them they'll come to you asking about your faith...that's how I became a Christian.

VisionOfBlood
08-03-2004, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by bwind22
Hey VisionofBlood, answer this question for me if you don't mind...

If you are so anti-God and a self proclaimed atheist, why does your AOL screem name refer to Christianity? CaptorofSin.

well for a good reason..if you read my complete profile youd see how fucked up it really is of that remark considering i have the chorus of CLOSER by nin on my profile

wufong
08-03-2004, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by Stingy Jack
By the way, for someone who claims to be a model Christian, you sure do have a shallow look at life and other people. Time and again I have read posts from you where you insult those that you consider to be "ugly." Not a very understanding nor loving person, are you?

.
no i'm not. but it's ok. cause i'm christian, we're not perfect just forgiven.

wufong
08-03-2004, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by Vodstok
The racist part kills me considering how many deragatory remarks wufong has made about Jews....:rolleyes:


I think i would ask God what he thought about all the horrors committed in his name. or Her name. or it's name.
i've never said anything bad about jews. well deragatory about them personaly. and if i did it's ok causemy mother side is jewish.
but i don't think i've said anything deragatory about them personaly. maybe about judaisim for sure. but not about the person who is a "jew"

Egekrusher
08-04-2004, 04:39 AM
Originally posted by wufong
no i'm not. but it's ok. cause i'm christian, we're not perfect just forgiven.

So that gives you the right to be a horrible person, because you'll be "forgiven"? That's one of the oldest excuses Christians have used to justify doing horrible things.

Vodstok
08-04-2004, 04:46 AM
isnt pride a sin? Arrogance is pride at it's worst wufong. it's a deadly sin, so get praying :rolleyes:

Haunted
08-04-2004, 04:51 AM
C'mon folks!! It's been 9 pages!!!

I know, if it irritates me so much why did I come to this thread. The only answer I can give is pure and simple masochism.

fluffho
08-04-2004, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by Egekrusher
So that gives you the right to be a horrible person, because you'll be "forgiven"? That's one of the oldest excuses Christians have used to justify doing horrible things.

just like in HS all the kids that would talk about the drugs they did and this and that and how they stole from here...

and then sunday morning theya re at church....

and yet i dont do ANY of those things and im still going to hell hmmmmmmmmm

is it because they stick $1 in the bowl? $1 that goes to the pope so he can have more gold plates and diamonds??

orangestar
08-04-2004, 09:17 AM
Originally posted by bwind22


4. God does not send people to Hell for 'tiny' things. Stealing a pack of gum will not land you in Hell. The only way for a soul to be damned to Hell is if they die with a mortal sin on their soul. Mortal sin = Major sin (Murder, Adultery, Rape, etc...)




Im sure this has already been said, but could you clarify one thing for me? Me being an atheist is, by itself, landing me in hell. correct?

Stingy Jack
08-04-2004, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by orangestar
Im sure this has already been said, but could you clarify one thing for me? Me being an atheist is, by itself, landing me in hell. correct?

Orangestar, yes. Not believing in god is a one-way ticket to hell, despite how good a person you are. It seems that god is more interested in gratifying his own power-trip by requiring his followers to believe and worship him, than he is in how decent people are to each other.

fluffho
08-04-2004, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by Stingy Jack
Orangestar, yes. Not believing in god is a one-way ticket to hell, despite how good a person you are. It seems that god is more interested in gratifying his own power-trip by requiring his followers to believe and worship him, than he is in how decent people are to each other.

thats y the first 3 ocmmandsments are all about him!! motherfucker sounds a lot like me come to think of it!!

Nyder
08-04-2004, 10:10 AM
I'm not going to wait and find out if there is a life after death (which there most certainly isn't). I'm going to get cryonically frozen! :cool:

And God is not omnipotent. Can he create a rock that he cannot lift? If yes, he is not omnipotent. If no, he is not omnipotent. Therefore God is not omnipotent.

bwind22
08-04-2004, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by orangestar
Im sure this has already been said, but could you clarify one thing for me? Me being an atheist is, by itself, landing me in hell. correct?

Sorry, I would love to give you an answer, but that will be up to God on judgement day. He's the only who could say for sure who is going to heaven and who is going to hell.

bwind22
08-04-2004, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by Nyder
And God is not omnipotent. Can he create a rock that he cannot lift? If yes, he is not omnipotent. If no, he is not omnipotent. Therefore God is not omnipotent.


Stingy Jack and I discussed this on another thread. My answer is 'Yes, he could. If he wanted to.' And by 'if he wanted to', I mean could, but he would have to temporarily limit his own omnipotence in order to make the rock to heavy to lift.

bwind22
08-04-2004, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by fluffho
and yet i dont do ANY of those things and im still going to hell hmmmmmmmmm

is it because they stick $1 in the bowl? $1 that goes to the pope so he can have more gold plates and diamonds??


Fluff, your posts on this thread lead me to believe you have a very distorted view of Christianity. I don't know where you get most of your info or how you came to these assumptions, but that is certainly not the case.

First of all, the collection is optional. No one is forcing anyone to put any money in the basket. (I don't, due to the fact that I simply can not afford it. I scrape by each month to my bills.)

Second of all, the Pope does not get that money, it generally goes to routine church upkeep and maintenance.

Third, if those people do those things and then go to church, that doesn't mean they will go to heaven. (In Catholicism for sure, maybe other religions within Christianity too, but I'm not positive about them.) They need to confess their sins. Simply going to church does not accomplish that.

wufong
08-04-2004, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by Egekrusher
So that gives you the right to be a horrible person, because you'll be "forgiven"? That's one of the oldest excuses Christians have used to justify doing horrible things. yup thats it. what excuses do atheist use when they do terrible things?
like murder, rape, steal, commit adultery, start wars commit genocide etc cause shock horror! atheist do all those things as well you know. and how have ibeen any more horrible or insulting as any atheist here? 99% of atheist here have one time or another have insulted christians here. like one member here pm'ed me ( i won't mention their name ) they said that they can't get how people go on and on when someone says something racist, yet nothing is said about people who insults someone faith. which to some can be just as offencive as the "N" word..

thats how tolerant you people come across. someone who is quite liked here doesn't want to argue the point here cause he is worried about being banned.
way to go.

wufong
08-04-2004, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by Nyder
I'm not going to wait and find out if there is a life after death (which there most certainly isn't). I'm going to get cryonically frozen! :cool:

And God is not omnipotent. Can he create a rock that he cannot lift? If yes, he is not omnipotent. If no, he is not omnipotent. Therefore God is not omnipotent.
for one christians don't sit around inchurch allday waiting for thier life to end so they can go to heaven. they actually go out and enjoy life as well
and two. did god create a rock he couldn't lift?.........no
so he keeps his omnipotent title :)

fluffho
08-04-2004, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by bwind22
Fluff, your posts on this thread lead me to believe you have a very distorted view of Christianity. I don't know where you get most of your info or how you came to these assumptions, but that is certainly not the case.

First of all, the collection is optional. No one is forcing anyone to put any money in the basket. (I don't, due to the fact that I simply can not afford it. I scrape by each month to my bills.)

Second of all, the Pope does not get that money, it generally goes to routine church upkeep and maintenance.

Third, if those people do those things and then go to church, that doesn't mean they will go to heaven. (In Catholicism for sure, maybe other religions within Christianity too, but I'm not positive about them.) They need to confess their sins. Simply going to church does not accomplish that.

i get my info from mormons, witnesses, and catholics ive talked to. havent met to many christians though. actually i did meet a christian in college and did a couple bible studys with her. only 2-3 though

1) yes collectoin is optional however in catholic tradition, not so much now, but in the past was to forgive your sins.

2) so how does the Pope live the wya he does? he doesnt exactly live in a trailor.... perhaps he takes up stock??

3) and dont try to get me on little technicalities. going to church, going to church to confess sins.. not much of a difference.. at least in catholic fiath all you have to do is communion (eat the bread) which is the same thing.

wufong
08-04-2004, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by fluffho
[B

2) so how does the Pope live the wya he does? he doesnt exactly live in a trailor.... perhaps he takes up stock??

3) and dont try to get me on little technicalities. going to church, going to church to confess sins.. not much of a difference.. at least in catholic fiath all you have to do is communion (eat the bread) which is the same thing. [/B]
one about 70% goes to the local church andthe rest goes back to the vactican. the catholic church is as rich as it is cause it has been doing this for hindreds of years. plus they own companys such as catipllar etc. and not as if christians religions are the only ones to take donations all faiths do it. even non religous groups do it. and just cause you drink some wine and eat some waffer bread doesn't mean all you sinsare forgiven.

Stingy Jack
08-04-2004, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by wufong
yup thats it. what excuses do atheist use when they do terrible things?
like murder, rape, steal, commit adultery, start wars commit genocide etc cause shock horror! atheist do all those things as well you know. and how have ibeen any more horrible or insulting as any atheist here? 99% of atheist here have one time or another have insulted christians here. like one member here pm'ed me ( i won't mention their name ) they said that they can't get how people go on and on when someone says something racist, yet nothing is said about people who insults someone faith. which to some can be just as offencive as the "N" word..

thats how tolerant you people come across. someone who is quite liked here doesn't want to argue the point here cause he is worried about being banned.
way to go.

Why is he worried about being banned? Does he intend to be insulting, or does he intend to reasonably argue the point? I, for one, try not to be insulting when I discuss religion. However, when someone inaccurately generalizes atheists the way you have wu, I tend to get upset. False generalizations and stereotypes have no place in a well-founded argument. And I admitted that when I made my first post here, I did it while in a pissed off mood ... basically because I find it trite and tiresome that I constantly have to correct someone who insists on spewing lies under the thinly veiled guise of truth. Particularly when those lies are constructed to portray people who hold the same beliefs I do as horrible, whiny numbskulls. But, I apologized for my remarks -- not because I thought they did not accurately express my feelings, but that they were expressed in an insensitive and boorish manner.

If you want to keep the insults to a minimum, then you should double-check yourself before you start filling this thread with emotionally charged bullshit that seems to have been written just to get a rise out of people. And, if you want to get a rise out of people, don't go complaining when you get it.

bwind22
08-04-2004, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by fluffho
i get my info from mormons, witnesses, and catholics ive talked to. havent met to many christians though. actually i did meet a christian in college and did a couple bible studys with her. only 2-3 though

1) yes collectoin is optional however in catholic tradition, not so much now, but in the past was to forgive your sins.

2) so how does the Pope live the wya he does? he doesnt exactly live in a trailor.... perhaps he takes up stock??

3) and dont try to get me on little technicalities. going to church, going to church to confess sins.. not much of a difference.. at least in catholic fiath all you have to do is communion (eat the bread) which is the same thing.




See... When I'm talking about your views on Christianity being skewed, that (Points to the Fluff's post.) is exactly what I'm talking about! Everything you are saying is incorrect. Plain and simple.

1) yes collectoin is optional however in catholic tradition, not so much now, but in the past was to forgive your sins.

~~No. It wasn't. The act of confession is one of the 7 holy sacraments, always has been. It'a called the sacrament of penance and it's sole pupose is to confess your sins/cleanse your soul. The collection is a donation to help your church, which the folks giving give up willingly.

2) so how does the Pope live the wya he does? he doesnt exactly live in a trailor.... perhaps he takes up stock??

~~You do not understand that to Catholics, the Pope is the one human being on this Earth that is closer than any other to God. They are more than happy to give financial support to someone of that stature, but as I said, most of the church collection ends up going towards the bills and everyday maintenance.

3) and dont try to get me on little technicalities. going to church, going to church to confess sins.. not much of a difference.. at least in catholic fiath all you have to do is communion (eat the bread) which is the same thing.

~~Wrong again. See answer number one. Receiving communion is taking the body and blood of Christ into yourself. It's a completely different sacrament than penance (That's the one where you confess your sins.) Walking into a church, is just that. If an atheist walks into a church to see a friend get married, does that count as them going to confession? No. There may not be much of a difference to you, but there is a very big difference nonetheless.



Sorry if I am coming off as rude, I really don't intend to. It's just that everything in your post is wrong and I thought I better try to set the record straight. I was raised Catholic by two very conservative Catholic parents. I attended Catholic grade school, some Catholic high school, and I even worked part time late night security at my church for a while, so please don't try to present complete falsities to me and tell me they are true. I know that particular religion inside and out.


:p

KRUGERKID13
08-04-2004, 07:38 PM
can we please get rid of this thread its only going to lead anger

wufong
08-04-2004, 07:47 PM
Originally posted by Stingy Jack
Why is he worried about being banned? Does he intend to be insulting, or does he intend to reasonably argue the point? I, for one, try not to be insulting when I discuss religion. However, when someone inaccurately generalizes atheists the way you have wu, I tend to get upset. False generalizations and stereotypes have no place in a well-founded argument. And I admitted that when I made my first post here, I did it while in a pissed off mood ... basically because I find it trite and tiresome that I constantly have to correct someone who insists on spewing lies under the thinly veiled guise of truth. Particularly when those lies are constructed to portray people who hold the same beliefs I do as horrible, whiny numbskulls. But, I apologized for my remarks -- not because I thought they did not accurately express my feelings, but that they were expressed in an insensitive and boorish manner.

If you want to keep the insults to a minimum, then you should double-check yourself before you start filling this thread with emotionally charged bullshit that seems to have been written just to get a rise out of people. And, if you want to get a rise out of people, don't go complaining when you get it.
ffs what a hypocrite

wufong
08-04-2004, 07:54 PM
p.s i've never started insulting anyone. and no this person wasn't going to start insulting anyone. and thridly i'm not complaining i'm have four older brothers who are all atheist. so religious insults don't really bother me. like water off a ducks back u might say.all i've done is generlize about atheist. but iguess only certain number of people are allowed to generlize here.

Nyder
08-04-2004, 09:14 PM
Just face the facts - you dogmatic individuals. There is no meaning or order to life! It is all chaos. You make it up as you go along.

No higher purpose, no master plan, no grand creator watching out for you. You are on your own.

We are alone in the universe. Our destiny is up to US - and each individual human being.

And one day we will OWN the mythical God with our technology. One day we will be the ones creating and designing the universe. Muhahahaha!

KRUGERKID13
08-04-2004, 09:15 PM
yeah real funny





go die

wufong
08-04-2004, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by Nyder
Just face the facts - you dogmatic individuals. There is no meaning or order to life! It is all chaos. You make it up as you go along.

No higher purpose, no master plan, no grand creator watching out for you. You are on your own.

We are alone in the universe. Our destiny is up to US - and each individual human being.

And one day we will OWN the mythical God with our technology. One day we will be the ones creating and designing the universe. Muhahahaha!
yawnnnzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
boringggggggggggg!

cheebacheeba
08-04-2004, 09:22 PM
Anyone know a religious debating team ya'll could direct this bunch to???

mayoisthedevil
08-04-2004, 09:25 PM
when people kill themselves, they go to hell...but what if they were bipolar? or in a hospital, when someone has to make a choice whether to pull the plug on a loved one, decided to do it, would that be murder and would they go to hell?

orangestar
08-04-2004, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by mayoisthedevil
when people kill themselves, they go to hell...but what if they were bipolar? or in a hospital, when someone has to make a choice whether to pull the plug on a loved one, decided to do it, would that be murder and would they go to hell?

There are so many "what ifs?" involved with religion of any kind, I have chosen not to partake in it.

bwind22
08-04-2004, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by Nyder
Just face the facts - you dogmatic individuals. There is no meaning or order to life! It is all chaos. You make it up as you go along.

No higher purpose, no master plan, no grand creator watching out for you. You are on your own.

We are alone in the universe. Our destiny is up to US - and each individual human being.


Yeah. It's called 'free will'. In no way does that conflict with the ideas of Christianity. Except for that part about being alone in the universe, that's just an assumption you made.

bwind22
08-04-2004, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by mayoisthedevil
when people kill themselves, they go to hell...but what if they were bipolar? or in a hospital, when someone has to make a choice whether to pull the plug on a loved one, decided to do it, would that be murder and would they go to hell?

If someone is mentally ill enough to kill themself, I do not think they would go to Hell. (In fact, I'm pretty sure the Catholic church said about a decade ago that they would not, reason being they are not of sound mind.) Fact is, nobody that kills themself is 100% sane at the time they do it.

The euthenasia question is a bit more touchy... I believe the Catholic church's stance to be that is that if the machines are the only things keeping the person alive anymore, then it is not a sin to pull the plug , because in reality, that person's time was up, but we are prolonging it through medical science... If they unplug the machines and the person continues breathing and living on their own, then any further steps to kill this person would not be considered okay.

mayoisthedevil
08-04-2004, 10:29 PM
i think i gettcha! thanks!
:)

mayoisthedevil
08-04-2004, 11:01 PM
wow...you must know a lot about GOD...and the ways of god and almost EVERYTHING ABOUT GOD!!! yeah, you must really love god...and gore and telling nerds to get the fuck off a forum...thats what i dont understand a lot about people. they are very much aware of how god is kind and loving and forgiving, and how jesus is perfect. yet, they dont even TRYYYYY to be that way.. in fact they make rather strong attempts to be the exact opposite.

KRUGERKID13
08-04-2004, 11:03 PM
just because one indulges in watching horror movies doesnt make them a sinner.

bwind22
08-04-2004, 11:16 PM
Originally posted by mayoisthedevil
wow...you must know a lot about GOD...and the ways of god and almost EVERYTHING ABOUT GOD!!! yeah, you must really love god...and gore and telling nerds to get the fuck off a forum...thats what i dont understand a lot about people. they are very much aware of how god is kind and loving and forgiving, and how jesus is perfect. yet, they dont even TRYYYYY to be that way.. in fact they make rather strong attempts to be the exact opposite.

Lol. I see you responded to this thread before looking at your mayo one...

Don't feel bad. I flame anything I think is lame. It's nothing personal. Some of my favorite people on here have gotten flamed by me at one time or another for saying/doing something stupid. I said your thread sucks, because it does. The nerd thing is supposed to be funny, which it is. Don't take it so personal, damn! You don't even know me, why the hell do you care if I called you a nerd for posting a thread to determine people's thoughts on mayo?

Now to answer this reply of yours... I don't know anything about God. I've never met him. I do know quite a bit about the different religions of the world, however, and when I am speaking on those threads, I usually point out which religion's standpoint I am expressing. I never claimed to be perfect and I not only like gore, I love it! Does that make me a bad person? I don't think so. Why? Because cheesy gore in horror films is not real. It's entertainment. Does it make me a hypocrite? Not really. I never made any claims to righteous and if you read through some of my posts you will find that watching gore and telling nerds to get the fuck out are the least of my worries.

You need to take a chill pill because you seem to be taking getting called a nerd waaaay too seriously. (And by the way, you started a fucking thread about mayo... You are a nerd.)

;)

jay o2 waster
08-04-2004, 11:22 PM
LFBO, that is great.

mayoisthedevil
08-04-2004, 11:41 PM
i don't care if i get called a nerd...hell, i know i am one. It's just that i don't really like people who acts one way and does another, who says one thing and does another. What i'm saying is, i don't like hypocrites. you come off a little holier-than-thou, and when you posted that up, it wasn't just you are a nerd or something like that, it was way beyond that. honestly, practice what you preach. "nerd get the fuck off the forum." you're just kidding? right...

Stingy Jack
08-05-2004, 03:47 AM
Originally posted by wufong
p.s i've never started insulting anyone. and no this person wasn't going to start insulting anyone. and thridly i'm not complaining i'm have four older brothers who are all atheist. so religious insults don't really bother me. like water off a ducks back u might say.all i've done is generlize about atheist. but iguess only certain number of people are allowed to generlize here.

I just reread my posts, considering the fact that you called me a hypocrite. But, I don't believe I made any false generalizations and tried to pass them off as truth. Those generalizations that I did make (while in a pissed-off mood, mind you) were introduced with the words: "It seems to me", thus showing the comment as my subjective opinion and not fact. But, if you find a quote of mine that you believe to be a false generalization, please point it out to me. If I agree that you are right, I will apologize and edit my post.

HappyCamper
08-05-2004, 05:03 AM
Originally posted by Stingy Jack
Orangestar, yes. Not believing in god is a one-way ticket to hell, despite how good a person you are. It seems that god is more interested in gratifying his own power-trip by requiring his followers to believe and worship him, than he is in how decent people are to each other.

Stingy, God is NOT on a power trip. He created us as faithful followers, but allowed us to fall, so that we could HAVE the choice to follow him, and yes you're right, he is a VERY jealious God. He only wants us to worship HIM, not other gods or material items (ie: money).

Also in God's eye/mind (which I'll never understand myself) there is no such thing as a decent person. To God, a person who tells a little white lie is just as evil as a murderer. His judgement scale is far different than ours. The only way to get into heaven is to be PERFECT. Of which I am certainly not. God provided me away to get there, by providing his son, Jesus (who was both man and God, and there by the ONLY PERFECT human) to pay the punishment for our sins -'for the wages of sin is death'

HappyCamper
08-05-2004, 05:06 AM
Originally posted by fluffho
i get my info from mormons, witnesses, and catholics ive talked to. havent met to many christians though. actually i did meet a christian in college and did a couple bible studys with her. only 2-3 though

1) yes collectoin is optional however in catholic tradition, not so much now, but in the past was to forgive your sins.

2) so how does the Pope live the wya he does? he doesnt exactly live in a trailor.... perhaps he takes up stock??

3) and dont try to get me on little technicalities. going to church, going to church to confess sins.. not much of a difference.. at least in catholic fiath all you have to do is communion (eat the bread) which is the same thing.


Mormons and Witnesses are not Christians, so they're information is way wrong!

HappyCamper
08-05-2004, 06:45 AM
i know this is my third post in a row, with no responses in between. But I just had to post this...

Vodstok
08-05-2004, 06:58 AM
That picture is funny :)

I always got a kick out of the bumper sticker that says "I found Jesus. he is in my trunk."

nv.
08-05-2004, 07:49 AM
Happy C- funny picture

Everyone else- Can't we all agree to disagree. Everybody knows there will be those people that will debate(argue) their point till the last breath in their body. There's not sense in getting all bitched up about it. Although it is really entertaining to read some of the posts...

Stingy Jack
08-05-2004, 09:59 AM
Originally posted by HappyCamper
Mormons and Witnesses are not Christians, so they're information is way wrong!

Mormons aren't Christians? When did this happen? I thought the only thing you needed to believe in order to be termed a "Christian" is that there is one, true God who gave his only begotten son, Jesus Christ, so that he may die for our sins and grant us the opportunity to enter into heaven. The Mormons believe this ... how are they not Christian?

nv. : I don't mind agreeing to disagree, but where's the fun in that? My only problem is that I take what people post here as sincere representation of their thoughts and feelings -- and so, perhaps I take them too seriously. And I do tend to get defensive and argumentative, but that's just my debate style (as Bloodrayne knows.) :) It's all in good fun.

P.S.: Unless you're talking about that dude's girlfriend who acted as if this thread was about to end her life as she knew it. That was a little too crazy.

nv.
08-05-2004, 11:00 AM
That's cool Stingy....your posts are most entertaining...:D

fluffho
08-05-2004, 11:20 AM
mormons and witnesses arent christian.. relaly?

actually u must be right sincei spoke with the witness and she said 'we are true christians' and i talked to several mormons and can ya believe it, they also said 'we are true christians'

theni talked to just a regular old christian girl and she said 'nuh uh, WE are the true christians'

so basically.. SOMEBODY is lieing to me....

and stingys posts are quite entertaining!!

VisionOfBlood
08-05-2004, 11:37 AM
baby your thread has turned into a fucking religious debate....ITS DRIVING ME NUTS. can we possibly get rid of it already.

there is no god, now everyone....SHUT THE FUCK UP!

bwind22
08-05-2004, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by VisionOfBlood
baby your thread has turned into a fucking religious debate....ITS DRIVING ME NUTS. can we possibly get rid of it already.

there is no god, now everyone....SHUT THE FUCK UP!

Oh okay. Because you said so... :rolleyes:


1- Your 'baby' can't delete it. Only a moderator can.

2- Please shut up. If you can't handle a real debate, then simply do not come to this thread. (I know your 'baby' started it and you think that somehow gives you and him some degree of authority over it, but that's not the case.) But, as you said, it has turned into a religious debate, so if you don't like it, stop coming to it and crying about it.

3- Maybe you would find the mayo thread more suitable to your intellect.



****Now, to address some of the other issues that have come up since I was last on.****



3- Jehovah's Witnesses are Christian. Mormons are Christian too.

4- Of course Stingy's posts are entertaining! (Even though I often find myself on the opposite end of the debate from him,) I still enjoy reading his posts. They are articulate, witty, and he makes a lot of good points the provoke thought.

5- That mayo fella really took it personally that I posted a pic saying 'Nerds are encouraged to get the fuck out!" Hey mayo, post a worthwhile thread and I won't do it to ya again! You seem like you might be far too sensitive for this forum, but we'll have to see if you stick around. (If some of the legitimate assholes were still around, they'd probably have you in tears by now. You should be happy that the worst you've been called is nerd.)



P.S. I don't ever really intend to come off as 'high and mighty'. When I say this is what Catholicism thinks, I am not even saying that I'm Catholic, I'm just saying that's what they think. I am a sinner in almost every aspect of the word, so please don't assume I am scolding or judging anyone on here. I am not.

Vodstok
08-05-2004, 01:01 PM
Speaking of well-spoken witty and articulate, even though i dont always agree... :)

Good post bwind. Although i liked the mayo post. it made me hungry.

mayoisthedevil
08-05-2004, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by bwind22
That mayo fella really took it personally that I posted a pic saying 'Nerds are encouraged to get the fuck out!" Hey mayo, post a worthwhile thread and I won't do it to ya again! You seem like you might be far too sensitive for this forum, but we'll have to see if you stick around. (If some of the legitimate assholes were still around, they'd probably have you in tears by now. You should be happy that the worst you've been called is nerd.)


Originally posted by mayoisthedevil
i don't care if i get called a nerd...hell, i know i am one. It's just that i don't really like people who acts one way and does another, who says one thing and does another. What i'm saying is, i don't like hypocrites.

Exactly what do you have against my mayonnaise thread? Who are you to talk about 'worthwhile threads' when just a few pages back you have threads about 'Bruce Lee vs. an Angry chimp' and all of those other "worthwhile" online quizzes?

natas
08-05-2004, 02:00 PM
I've gotten into this type of debate so many times with friends...its a very touchy topic.

My views...

1. I'm with Stingy...I would love to believe in God but find it hard to believe any of it.

2. If God is real, my theory is that he is an alien. Won't get into explaining why...that would take forever. It would explain a lot of history though.

3. My opinion of Heaven and Hell?? Earth is Hell. If you can live a good life here...you die and go to Heaven. If not...you die and just get reincarnated.

4. To add to my alien theory....maybe the earth and all that is on it is just an experiment. Hence why aliens(supposedly) abduct people and test them.


These are just my opinions. Until the truth is known...the debates will continue.

bwind22
08-05-2004, 02:04 PM
Hahaha! Now there's a good post!

You make a very valid point. I can see you've done your homework. I've been known to post stupid threads too, the difference being that I don't get insulted if someone calls it stupid. I know they're stupid, that's why I post them, and that's what makes them funny. Feel free to flame my completely stupid and pointless threads at will. (Not only can I dish it out, but I can take it too. Plus, the Bruce Lee vs. Angry Chimp thread could use a bump right about now.)

P.S. I'm more of a dork than a nerd, but I'm sure just about everyone on this board falls into the general category of 'dorky nerds'. I haven't seen too many football jocks on here.

P.S.S. You're alright in my book, mayo.

bwind22
08-05-2004, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by natas
I've gotten into this type of debate so many times with friends...its a very touchy topic.

My views...

1. I'm with Stingy...I would love to believe in God but find it hard to believe any of it.

2. If God is real, my theory is that he is an alien. Won't get into explaining why...that would take forever. It would explain a lot of history though.

3. My opinion of Heaven and Hell?? Earth is Hell. If you can live a good life here...you die and go to Heaven. If not...you die and just get reincarnated.

4. To add to my alien theory....maybe the earth and all that is on it is just an experiment. Hence why aliens(supposedly) abduct people and test them.


These are just my opinions. Until the truth is known...the debates will continue.

Some intersting theories in there. I would like to hear you elaborate on the alien one a bit more, but the Hell on Earth one is a pretty unique idea.

natas
08-05-2004, 02:29 PM
Some points to ponder....

1. In Egypt...they believed their God lived behind the sun.
Alien??

2. The Inca's drew pictures of( what we would call) spaceships and made landing strips.

nine9
08-05-2004, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by natas
Some points to ponder....

1. In Egypt...they believed their God lived behind the sun.
Alien??

2. The Inca's drew pictures of( what we would call) spaceships and made landing strips.

Interesting. My mom was telling me that in Iceland they are very serious about their belief in Trolls. They claim that they have been seen to look like humans only smaller.........and many cattle and sheep have completely gone missing at times..........no carcass of any kind left at all.............she thinks these were aliens they were seeing. Iceland also has a very unusual landscape! NASA used it for practice moon landings apparently!

Something in every culture about that it seems!

wufong
08-05-2004, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by Stingy Jack
I just reread my posts, considering the fact that you called me a hypocrite. But, I don't believe I made any false generalizations and tried to pass them off as truth. Those generalizations that I did make (while in a pissed-off mood, mind you) were introduced with the words: "It seems to me", thus showing the comment as my subjective opinion and not fact. But, if you find a quote of mine that you believe to be a false generalization, please point it out to me. If I agree that you are right, I will apologize and edit my post.
well it "seems to me that when some people say "it seems to me" its just a subjective opinion yet when .......lets say a christian
says "it seems to me " Originally posted by wufong
the way i see it. most atheist here are atheist cause the world isn't a perfect place.
it seems ya are all like
"boo hoo there is no god cause im ugly or boo hoo there is no god cause i'm fat. .
like i did there for example. its means i'm a ignorant right wing judgemental christian who is making a evil generalization.

wufong
08-05-2004, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by natas
Some points to ponder....

1. In Egypt...they believed their God lived behind the sun.
Alien??


you think thats weird the sun god of egypt was called ra. and the south pacfic islanders word for sun was also ra

Hate_Breeder
08-05-2004, 10:28 PM
I pray to i Jah :)

Arioch
08-06-2004, 12:21 AM
"blasphemy.....blaspha-you......blaspha-everybody in the room"

Stingy Jack
08-07-2004, 07:46 AM
Originally posted by wufong
for one lots wife was a slut so who cares that she died.
and twothere is only one god. atheist are just chicken shit sheep who are to scared to believe in god. besides if your god is so good how come he didn't stop us ( followers of the one true god) from killing his/hers followers?

wufong: actually, I was referring to this quote, since it is the one that originally caused me to make my post about why most atheists are atheists.

Stingy Jack
08-07-2004, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by Stingy Jack
Wufong, I typed a trademarked "Long Post" on why most atheists are atheists, if you care to read it. It is my first post on this thread. Maybe then you can be a little more informed before you start spouting even more unfounded beliefs as truth ... in this case: "Waa waa waa there is no god because I'm fat and ugly" or "Waa waa waa there is no god because there are wars and bad things and life is hard." By the way, for someone who claims to be a model Christian, you sure do have a shallow look at life and other people. Time and again I have read posts from you where you insult those that you consider to be "ugly." Not a very understanding nor loving person, are you?

But, you're right wu. Here I claim to make a reference to your other post that you quoted. I admit I got the two mixed up and simply used the last thing I remembered you saying. I apologize for that.

Vleeshaak
08-07-2004, 08:25 AM
If God created us, then who created God?

fluffho
08-07-2004, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by Vleeshaak
If God created us, then who created God?

i think he/she simply congealed somewhere.... :D

Stingy Jack
08-07-2004, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by Vleeshaak
If God created us, then who created God?

This is actually a valid question that I have never heard adequately answered. In my experiences with having religious debates, I have oftentimes come across the argument that the universe, and life itself, is so complex and precise that it could not have just formed on it's own. It had to have an intelligent maker. For example, if you were walking along the beach and suddenly came across a watch, you would know instantly that such a device had to be made by someone ... not just formed together on its' own.

To this argument I point out the error that, according to people who use this argument, god is actually more complex and precise than we, or the universe He created. He is so complex, in fact, that we human beings can barely comprehend him. And yet, such a being is free from needing a creator. Which is a self-defeating point for the argument of design. How can one argue that complex, ordered things like the universe must have a creator, and then say, two seconds later, that complex things like god do not? You've just shown that not all things that are complex and precise need a creator. So why must you arbitrarily assign this requirement to the universe, and not to god? Could not the universe have "always been"?

KRUGERKID13
08-07-2004, 01:29 PM
that question will drive a man crazy. Ive spent night thinking that question

nine9
08-07-2004, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by Stingy Jack
This is actually a valid question that I have never heard adequately answered. In my experiences with having religious debates, I have oftentimes come across the argument that the universe, and life itself, is so complex and precise that it could not have just formed on it's own. It had to have an intelligent maker. For example, if you were walking along the beach and suddenly came across a watch, you would know instantly that such a device had to be made by someone ... not just formed together on its' own.

To this argument I point out the error that, according to people who use this argument, god is actually more complex and precise than we, or the universe He created. He is so complex, in fact, that we human beings can barely comprehend him. And yet, such a being is free from needing a creator. Which is a self-defeating point for the argument of design. How can one argue that complex, ordered things like the universe must have a creator, and then say, two seconds later, that complex things like god do not? You've just shown that not all things that are complex and precise need a creator. So why must you arbitrarily assign this requirement to the universe, and not to god? Could not the universe have "always been"?


What if there was no beginning and no end....it just always has been there only in different forms.....No time....only illusion......No birth and no death.....illusion only...........everything just is......and is not at the same time. How can a creator exist when there never was a beginning. We then are all part of it all...........existing.........always dancing in different forms........

KRUGERKID13
08-07-2004, 01:45 PM
i think its all been done and were just being played over and over until we get it right

nine9
08-07-2004, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by KRUGERKID13
i think its all been done and were just being played over and over until we get it right

Simple but profound........Stephan Hawking would be proud! :)

Think......2001 ..............I think Clarke was right there!

KRUGERKID13
08-07-2004, 01:51 PM
Didnt like 2001 and never read any of hawkings stuff but would like to

Stingy Jack
08-07-2004, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by nine9
What if there was no beginning and no end....it just always has been there only in different forms.....No time....only illusion......No birth and no death.....illusion only...........everything just is......and is not at the same time. How can a creator exist when there never was a beginning. We then are all part of it all...........existing.........always dancing in different forms........

Very poetic, Nine9! :) There is an argument that stems from the Big Bang Theory that says that the universe may be in a perpetual state of Big Bangs and what are known as Big Crunches. For example, once this universe has expanded to a certain size, it may begin to collapse back on itself (thus, the Big Crunch). The pressure of such a collapse will cause yet another Big Bang, and the universe will expand again ... only to crunch again, then expand, then crunch. It may be that this cycle has been going on since the beginning of time (if not before), and our existence is just one in an endless cycle of bangs and crunches. But, I think it has recently been determined (and I mean as recent as within the past two years, because I remember hearing it on the radio) that the universe will not crunch on itself, but will come to rest when it's expansion has slowed to a halt. Which is good news, I suppose! Although, I don't think we'll be around when that happens. The sun will burn out (thus, causing it to expand and engulf Earth and its surrounding planets before fizzling out) long before the crunch happens.

Sistinas
08-07-2004, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by Chainsaw Guy
I am afraid theres no after life and just darkness




I am afraid there is life after the darkness.

Arioch
08-07-2004, 02:22 PM
To this argument I point out the error that, according to people who use this argument, god is actually more complex and precise than we, or the universe He created. He is so complex, in fact, that we human beings can barely comprehend him. And yet, such a being is free from needing a creator. Which is a self-defeating point for the argument of design. How can one argue that complex, ordered things like the universe must have a creator, and then say, two seconds later, that complex things like god do not? You've just shown that not all things that are complex and precise need a creator. So why must you arbitrarily assign this requirement to the universe, and not to god? Could not the universe have "always been"?

Nicely phrased....i've often pondered this one myself...

nine9
08-07-2004, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by Stingy Jack
Very poetic, Nine9! :) There is an argument that stems from the Big Bang Theory that says that the universe may be in a perpetual state of Big Bangs and what are known as Big Crunches. For example, once this universe has expanded to a certain size, it may begin to collapse back on itself (thus, the Big Crunch). The pressure of such a collapse will cause yet another Big Bang, and the universe will expand again ... only to crunch again, then expand, then crunch. It may be that this cycle has been going on since the beginning of time (if not before), and our existence is just one in an endless cycle of bangs and crunches. But, I think it has recently been determined (and I mean as recent as within the past two years, because I remember hearing it on the radio) that the universe will not crunch on itself, but will come to rest when it's expansion has slowed to a halt. Which is good news, I suppose! Although, I don't think we'll be around when that happens. The sun will burn out (thus, causing it to expand and engulf Earth and its surrounding planets before fizzling out) long before the crunch happens.


Well even nothing is something..............the concept of nothing is an impossibility. There is something in emptiness..............That is the true essense of life!

orangestar
08-07-2004, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by nine9
Well even nothing is something..............the concept of nothing is an impossibility. There is something in emptiness..............That is the true essense of life!

thats so deep I think my head is caving in

nine9
08-07-2004, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by orangestar
thats so deep I think my head is caving in

Lol! Well that is the way I think! Everything is that way with me..............ooooooooooo my secret is revealed! :eek:

Hate_Breeder
08-07-2004, 03:08 PM
What i dont get is...what the hell happens when the world "ends" It doesnt make sense. I mean there would be absolutely nothing.

nine9
08-07-2004, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by Hate_Breeder
What i dont get is...what the hell happens when the world "ends" It doesnt make sense. I mean there would be absolutely nothing.


Nothing is something.........where do you think it would go?



Just like when a plant dies it it absorbed
into the ground.........becoming something else....any thing that ever exists............will and always has existed..........where really can it go?

There is no nothing............we just don't understand the emptiness because it is beyond our comprehension.......But the energy is there........they have already proven that there is an unknown energy even in black holes..........

nine9
08-07-2004, 03:18 PM
Oh...and...you can't disconnect..........ever.........you are all of it. :)

Hate_Breeder
08-07-2004, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by nine9
Nothing is something.........where do you think it would go?



Just like when a plant dies it it absorbed
into the ground.........becoming something else....any thing that ever exists............will and always has existed..........where really can it go?

There is no nothing............we just don't understand the emptiness because it is beyond our comprehension.......But the energy is there........they have already proven that there is an unknown energy even in black holes..........

Wow your good at this nine! Anyways im more scared of the sun burning out than anything. Because no light would be so god damn scary :eek:

nine9
08-07-2004, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by Hate_Breeder
Wow your good at this nine! Anyways im more scared of the sun burning out than anything. Because no light would be so god damn scary :eek:

The sun isn't the only light there is...........Where ever you are you are in the middle of everything.............you just think you have limitations....there aren't any.

I hate the dark too.........but because maybe I am overwhelmed by what I really am........ :) :p

Hate_Breeder
08-07-2004, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by nine9
The sun isn't the only light there is...........Where ever you are you are in the middle of everything.............you just think you have limitations....there aren't any.

I hate the dark too.........but because maybe I am overwhelmed by what I really am........ :) :p


The only thing i like about darkness is the Stars and the Moon on a clear night. :)

nine9
08-07-2004, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by Hate_Breeder
The only thing i like about darkness is the Stars and the Moon on a clear night. :)

You ARE the stars and the moon............There is no space between you.

nine9
08-07-2004, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by MD2
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!





I think my head is exploding!!!!!!!!!

This feels so good to just be me!

I know all these things to be true.......and backed up by Quantum Physics.........although there have been writings on all this from 5000 years ago............just needed science to catch up with intuitive knowledge!

wufong
08-07-2004, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by Stingy Jack
But, you're right wu. Here I claim to make a reference to your other post that you quoted. I admit I got the two mixed up and simply used the last thing I remembered you saying. I apologize for that.
touche'

nine9
08-07-2004, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by MD2
Looks and books. Who'd have thunk it.;) You're pretty deep there 99. This is a good thing. Dont ever change.:D ;)

There is even more to me MD2.......I am a very complex person...........but no one needs to know that.............shhhhhhhhh!;)

bwind22
08-07-2004, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by nine9
You ARE the stars and the moon............There is no space between you.



I hate to be the one to rain on your philosophical parade, but that's whack. Hate Breeder is not the stars and the moon and as a matter of fact, there's quite a bit of space between him and them.

I realize that you are saying that even empty air/space consists of some matter (Oxygen molecules, dust particles, etc...) and that there is no such thing as 'nothingness', but that doesn't put Hate any closer to the moon, nor does it make him a star.

Sorry. :(

Egekrusher
08-07-2004, 10:53 PM
There is also a theory that says that in reality, we don't truly exist.

We are all one atomic particle, all matter in the universe is one particle. Time is an illusion caused by parrallel universes, an infinite number of universes that all spawn from this one particle. All of the events that take place in our space/time continuum are just one of infinite possibilities that are being played out by that one atom. All of the parallel universes out there are the other possible outcomes of what could have happened if that particle would have taken a different course.

An actual scientific theory.

There are 4 different possibilities when it comes to parallel universes. That is one of the 4 possiblities.

Now, recently scientists have proven that there are, for a fact, parallel universes. They just don't know which of the four types it is.

nine9
08-07-2004, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by bwind22
I hate to be the one to rain on your philosophical parade, but that's whack. Hate Breeder is not the stars and the moon and as a matter of fact, there's quite a bit of space between him and them.

I realize that you are saying that even empty air/space consists of some matter (Oxygen molecules, dust particles, etc...) and that there is no such thing as 'nothingness', but that doesn't put Hate any closer to the moon, nor does it make him a star.

Sorry. :(

It has been proven that there is no space between anything.....it IS all connected............and yes that does mean that we are already there.......Iam not just being poetic here........this is a scientifically proven fact......... I have a whole article out of omni mag........from a couple of years ago.......yes it can be disputed........but almost 100 percent of the top scientists agree.

I put in in that way to relate to what HB was saying.

kpropain
08-07-2004, 10:58 PM
I take a big ole huge steaming dump on this thread...

bwind22
08-07-2004, 11:02 PM
No. We're not already there. If we were, I wouldn't need to pay for my plane ticket to Vegas, but I did, because we're not.

If there is no space in between you and I right now, what am I watching on television?

You don't know. Why? Because you aren't here. Why? Because there is a space between us.

Not only that, but you told him that he IS the stars and the moon... No he's not, he's a human being. Not a planet, nor a burning ball of gas.

Sorry, but this whole theory seems pretty bogus to me... :rolleyes:

nine9
08-07-2004, 11:16 PM
Originally posted by bwind22
No. We're not already there. If we were, I wouldn't need to pay for my plane ticket to Vegas, but I did, because we're not.

If there is no space in between you and I right now, what am I watching on television?

You don't know. Why? Because you aren't here. Why? Because there is a space between us.

Not only that, but you told him that he IS the stars and the moon... No he's not, he's a human being. Not a planet, nor a burning ball of gas.

Sorry, but this whole theory seems pretty bogus to me... :rolleyes:

Oh I am to tired here to argue this.....just a figure of speech...........geesh! But I do stand by the fact that space is on perceived........with our limited perceptions.......

Sorry if it bugged you all so much..........like I said....I was just relating to what he said......what will you be when you aren't you anymore.......you will be absorbed back into everything........

Anyway........Shit....like I said I am tired.....so hell sorry!

bwind22
08-07-2004, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by kpropain
I take a big ole huge steaming dump on this thread...


lol

I like your use of adjectives to let us know exactly what type of dump it is that you will be taking.