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TheWickerFan
05-11-2010, 06:05 AM
These are the five directors (who have all at least dabbled in horror films) I think have the worst track record for making pretentious films:

Ingmar Bergman (Hour Of The Wolf)
Federico Fellini (Fellini Satyricon)
David Lynch (Eraserhead)
Kiyoshi Kurosawa (Cure, Pulse)
and the absolute worst offender: Peter Greenaway (The Cook, The Thief, His Wife, And Her Lover)

Any others?

The_Return
05-11-2010, 06:50 AM
Wes Anderson

As for your list...no. Just no.

_____V_____
05-11-2010, 09:08 AM
These are the five directors (who have all at least dabbled in horror films) I think have the worst track record for making pretentious films:

Ingmar Bergman (Hour Of The Wolf)
Federico Fellini (Fellini Satyricon)
David Lynch (Eraserhead)
Kiyoshi Kurosawa (Cure, Pulse)
and the absolute worst offender: Peter Greenaway (The Cook, The Thief, His Wife, And Her Lover)

Any others?

What...the...fuck?!


Pretentious directors according to me - M Night Shyamalan, Paul W S Anderson, Michael Bay, Steven Spielberg, George Lucas, Barry Sonnenfeld, Cameron Crowe, Steven Soderbergh, Woody Allen, Timur Bekmambetov.

Treading on the line - James Cameron, Tim Burton, Darren Aronofsky.

Roderick Usher
05-11-2010, 09:42 AM
It is precisely this kind of negativity coming from "fans" that I despise and keeps me away from this site.

Making a film is hard work. Even a bad film requires a ton of hard work. I should know, I've made several very bad films. Making a good film is extraordinarily difficult and crafting a film that stands the test of time is close to a miraculous event.

Before you call these master crafstmen pretentious, try making a feature film.

What's that? You can't? You don't have the skill or talent or perseverance?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

The saying used to be "those who cannot, teach" but it seems far more appropriate to say "those who cannot, criticize." Becasue a critic is someone too lazy or too untalented or simply too fearful to actually create that which they take such delight in destroying.

I come here to share my love for films. I think it's time to leave for good.

neverending
05-11-2010, 09:49 AM
Let's makea list of the most pretentious posters!

TheWickerFan
05-11-2010, 10:14 AM
Let's makea list of the most pretentious posters!

Whoa!! Not allowed to criticize films or directors? I thought that was the point of a movie forum. It's not like I was saying they were terrible human beings for making films I didn't happen to like. It seems to me, not too long ago, we were discussing the repercussions of daring to criticize a highly respected arty film, and being clobbered for it because it meant you were too stupid to"get it". I thought we decided that the people who said that were pompous, arrogant jerks. Oh well.

_____V_____
05-11-2010, 10:14 AM
It is precisely this kind of negativity coming from "fans" that I despise and keeps me away from this site.

Making a film is hard work. Even a bad film requires a ton of hard work. I should know, I've made several very bad films. Making a good film is extraordinarily difficult and crafting a film that stands the test of time is close to a miraculous event.

Before you call these master crafstmen pretentious, try making a feature film.

What's that? You can't? You don't have the skill or talent or perseverance?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

The saying used to be "those who cannot, teach" but it seems far more appropriate to say "those who cannot, criticize." Becasue a critic is someone too lazy or too untalented or simply too fearful to actually create that which they take such delight in destroying.

I come here to share my love for films. I think it's time to leave for good.

No way, mister. You do that and I m catching the next flight to Hollywood to dive directly on you, wherever you are. :D

Not like any of those I listed haven't made any superb films I don't appreciate. Heck, Spielberg's Jaws & Schindler's List are two of my most faves of all-time. I love most of em and their works, whether they are pretentious or not.

neverending
05-11-2010, 10:54 AM
Whoa!! Not allowed to criticize films or directors? I thought that was the point of a movie forum. It's not like I was saying they were terrible human beings for making films I didn't happen to like. It seems to me, not too long ago, we were discussing the repercussions of daring to criticize a highly respected arty film, and being clobbered for it because it meant you were too stupid to"get it". I thought we decided that the people who said that were pompous, arrogant jerks. Oh well.

Once again- who said anything was forbidden? I'm not going to genuflect in your direction if I don't agree with you, no matter the amount of self-righteous bluster you put forth.

TheWickerFan
05-11-2010, 11:24 AM
It is precisely this kind of negativity coming from "fans" that I despise and keeps me away from this site.

Making a film is hard work. Even a bad film requires a ton of hard work. I should know, I've made several very bad films. Making a good film is extraordinarily difficult and crafting a film that stands the test of time is close to a miraculous event.

Before you call these master crafstmen pretentious, try making a feature film.

What's that? You can't? You don't have the skill or talent or perseverance?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

The saying used to be "those who cannot, teach" but it seems far more appropriate to say "those who cannot, criticize." Becasue a critic is someone too lazy or too untalented or simply too fearful to actually create that which they take such delight in destroying.

I come here to share my love for films. I think it's time to leave for good.

Okay, if you're going to use this logic, then you never have the right to question any professional that you hire unless you can do the job yourself (are you a Doctor? Yeah, that's what I thought.)

roshiq
05-11-2010, 11:33 AM
These are the five directors (who have all at least dabbled in horror films) I think have the worst track record for making pretentious films:

Ingmar Bergman (Hour Of The Wolf)
Federico Fellini (Fellini Satyricon)
David Lynch (Eraserhead)
Kiyoshi Kurosawa (Cure, Pulse)
and the absolute worst offender: Peter Greenaway (The Cook, The Thief, His Wife, And Her Lover)

Any others?

What's the meaning of the word "pretentious" here actually?

As far I understand we have an annual award activity here that's always been done in a very democratic way....what we can do best is there's a certain type of category & you can be nominated, just wait & see what happens.

TheWickerFan
05-11-2010, 11:33 AM
Once again- who said anything was forbidden? I'm not going to genuflect in your direction if I don't agree with you, no matter the amount of self-righteous bluster you put forth.

My criticism was probably aimed more towards RoderickUsher than towards you. I never expect to change anyone's opinion on a film, and when I'm given recommendations by other people on what films to see, and I don't happen to agree with them, I never write back to criticize them on their choices.

I guess I'll stick with less controversial subjects.

Caenxavier
05-11-2010, 11:58 AM
Let's makea list of the most pretentious posters!


I nominate you!
:p kidding, kidding.

neverending
05-11-2010, 12:45 PM
No, no- I would definitely be a top contender!

fiend_skull
05-11-2010, 01:15 PM
I feel that a title such as "pretentious" especially with film making isn't really something that can be handed out unless you pay close attention to the person. Just because someone made an artistic movie, or something along those lines doesn't make them pretentious, or at least that is how I feel about it. I have always felt someone like Stanley Kubrick was pretentious for how he treated everyone else and how he acted on set. I've never heard of so many incidents from one director, but I guess to each his own, in whatever way that might form in this thread.

missmacabre
05-11-2010, 01:17 PM
I feel that a title such as "pretentious" especially with film making isn't really something that can be handed out unless you pay close attention to the person. Just because someone made an artistic movie, or something along those lines doesn't make them pretentious, or at least that is how I feel about it. I have always felt someone like Stanley Kubrick was pretentious for how he treated everyone else and how he acted on set. I've never heard of so many incidents from one director, but I guess to each his own, in whatever way that might form in this thread.

I'll agree with this. With stories of Kubrik slapping people to get them to act scared properly it gives him this holier than thou attitude where not only are his movies the shit, but he must be too to think he could get away with that.

TheWickerFan
05-11-2010, 01:29 PM
I feel that a title such as "pretentious" especially with film making isn't really something that can be handed out unless you pay close attention to the person. Just because someone made an artistic movie, or something along those lines doesn't make them pretentious, or at least that is how I feel about it. I have always felt someone like Stanley Kubrick was pretentious for how he treated everyone else and how he acted on set. I've never heard of so many incidents from one director, but I guess to each his own, in whatever way that might form in this thread.

I was really only talking about the film's content (and the average movie critic's overly enthusiastic reaction every time one of these directors releases a new film), but you're absolutely right about Stanley Kubrick (Alfred Hitchcock was like that too).

missmacabre
05-11-2010, 02:26 PM
I was really only talking about the film's content (and the average movie critic's overly enthusiastic reaction every time one of these directors releases a new film), but you're absolutely right about Stanley Kubrick (Alfred Hitchcock was like that too).

Wouldn't the content of a film being pretentious depend on the views of the person watching it? Like If I like Darren Arronofsky's movies, I myself am pretentious for thinking so?

TheWickerFan
05-11-2010, 04:43 PM
Wouldn't the content of a film being pretentious depend on the views of the person watching it? Like If I like Darren Arronofsky's movies, I myself am pretentious for thinking so?

It's a matter of opinion whether a film is pretentious, but if a person likes a film that other people consider pretentious, it doesn't make them pretentious (whew).

Looking up Webster's definition of the word pretentious, I see I'm not using it correctly; I apologize. When I said pretentious, I didn't mean that these directors were arrogant or ostentatious. What I meant was, their films tend to be full of incomprehensible symbolism, a non-linear plot, and extremely slow pacing. Don't get me wrong; there are some films of this type that I do enjoy, just not these.

neverending
05-11-2010, 05:01 PM
Whether or not symbolism in a particular film is incomprehensible or not, depends on the viewer, so let's just use the term symbolism. Symbolism, non-linear plots and slow pacing are all things that intrigue me. I enjoy films that challenge me and ask more from me as a viewer than just staring slack jawed at a screen full of fast action, explosions, and superficial plots.

Yes, I'm exaggerating to make a point.

I do enjoy all your "pretentious" directors. Watching their films has enriched my life.

And no- I will not explain the symbolism behind any film.

TheWickerFan
05-11-2010, 05:32 PM
Whether or not symbolism in a particular film is incomprehensible or not, depends on the viewer, so let's just use the term symbolism. Symbolism, non-linear plots and slow pacing are all things that intrigue me. I enjoy films that challenge me and ask more from me as a viewer than just staring slack jawed at a screen full of fast action, explosions, and superficial plots.

Yes, I'm exaggerating to make a point.

I do enjoy all your "pretentious" directors. Watching their films has enriched my life.

And no- I will not explain the symbolism behind any film.

As I have said several times, I do enjoy some "pretentious" films; for instance 2001 A Space Odyssey. I will not even pretend I understood what the overall point was, but sometimes a movie is so beautiful and mesmerizing just to look at that questions of what it all means cease to matter; and people can criticize Stanley Kubrick and 2001 all they want; I would completely understand why they would. It was slow, incomprehensible, and (dare I say?) pretentious, but I loved it all the same.
I always admire anyone who tries to do something different (these days, with all the remakes out there, it is desperately needed), but sometimes being different just isn't enough.

P.S. I'll cut David Lynch some slack, but not the others.

ChronoGrl
05-11-2010, 05:57 PM
It is precisely this kind of negativity coming from "fans" that I despise and keeps me away from this site.

Making a film is hard work. Even a bad film requires a ton of hard work. I should know, I've made several very bad films. Making a good film is extraordinarily difficult and crafting a film that stands the test of time is close to a miraculous event.

Before you call these master crafstmen pretentious, try making a feature film.

What's that? You can't? You don't have the skill or talent or perseverance?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

The saying used to be "those who cannot, teach" but it seems far more appropriate to say "those who cannot, criticize." Becasue a critic is someone too lazy or too untalented or simply too fearful to actually create that which they take such delight in destroying.

I come here to share my love for films. I think it's time to leave for good.

Geez, Rod! No need to take it personally! So just because making a movie is difficult means that people don't have the right to criticize it? Criticism AND reverence are the cornerstones of discussion (ok, that was a bit of an overstatement, but you know what I mean)... If everyone just sat back and applauded every movie that was churned out just because it was weely weely haad too maik, well, that's sort of like giving out "constellation" awards to kids who can't handle not winning.

People who produce movies should expect criticism, whether it be constructive or not. When you put yourself in the limelight, that's what happens. Besides, didn't you WANT people to see it? Plus, arguably it's criticism that people use to build future products on.

Not to mention, this is just OPINION. And everyone has a right to their opinion. There's no way that everyone is going to LOVE every movie that comes out, and that's OK. It's disputing opinions that make up a discussion and make up a forum.

I feel that a title such as "pretentious" especially with film making isn't really something that can be handed out unless you pay close attention to the person. Just because someone made an artistic movie, or something along those lines doesn't make them pretentious, or at least that is how I feel about it. I have always felt someone like Stanley Kubrick was pretentious for how he treated everyone else and how he acted on set. I've never heard of so many incidents from one director, but I guess to each his own, in whatever way that might form in this thread.

See, I dig that. "Pretentious" is more of a dig at the director (as a person, vs their work) and can be taken as offensive (which is I assume why Rod responded the way he did). Argue with the use of "pretentious," but let us criticize. And let directors grow a pair.

neverending
05-11-2010, 06:03 PM
You mean consolation, not constellation. :D

ChronoGrl
05-11-2010, 06:06 PM
You mean consolation, not constellation. :D

LMAO!!

No - Constellations! Star-shaped trophies! ;)

fuglystick
05-11-2010, 06:20 PM
I'm sensing a theme in a couple of threads today, and that theme is "Let me educate you Neanderthals."

neverending
05-11-2010, 06:31 PM
Well, I'll give one thing to Wicker- he's sparked some discussion in a forum besides the General forum.

That's a good thing.

TheWickerFan
05-12-2010, 02:17 AM
Geez, Rod! No need to take it personally! So just because making a movie is difficult means that people don't have the right to criticize it? Criticism AND reverence are the cornerstones of discussion (ok, that was a bit of an overstatement, but you know what I mean)... If everyone just sat back and applauded every movie that was churned out just because it was weely weely haad too maik, well, that's sort of like giving out "constellation" awards to kids who can't handle not winning.

People who produce movies should expect criticism, whether it be constructive or not. When you put yourself in the limelight, that's what happens. Besides, didn't you WANT people to see it? Plus, arguably it's criticism that people use to build future products on.

Not to mention, this is just OPINION. And everyone has a right to their opinion. There's no way that everyone is going to LOVE every movie that comes out, and that's OK. It's disputing opinions that make up a discussion and make up a forum.



See, I dig that. "Pretentious" is more of a dig at the director (as a person, vs their work) and can be taken as offensive (which is I assume why Rod responded the way he did). Argue with the use of "pretentious," but let us criticize. And let directors grow a pair.

I think you're my new best friend. You really nailed what I was trying to say, but phrased it more eloquently than I did.

And by the way neverending, I'm a woman.

Straker
05-12-2010, 04:30 AM
I wouldn't really want to single out any specific directors, but I'd say there's a certain degree of pretentiousness (is that a word?) to the whole process. You're making something that you believe deserves to find an audiance and that has the power to evoke emotional responses. The fact that a director might say "We're just trying to make a cool movie that people will enjoy" instead of "This movie has the power to change the world" doesn't really make all that much difference. Some directors are incredibly pretentious, some a little less so. I don't think its just a case of being 'arty' that defines a pretentious film or director. Usually though, if a director deviates to far from the norm s/he's going to be called pretentious, self indulgent and arrogant when probably the reality is most directors have a little of that in them.

AMICUS HORROR
05-12-2010, 04:51 AM
Now things have cooled down:rolleyes: here is my list of pretentious directors

John Landis.
Joe Dante.
I just hate these Spielberg wanabees.:)

_____V_____
05-12-2010, 05:25 AM
Well duh, pretentious films attract us because we are, by nature, very pretentious? Aren't we all?

At least I admit I am.


I nominate you!
:p kidding, kidding.

The trophy in that category goes to me.

psycho d
05-12-2010, 05:31 AM
As for your list...no. Just no.

The perfect response that obviates the others.
d

TheWickerFan
05-12-2010, 05:38 AM
The perfect response that obviates the others.
d

Yes, I thought so too (I'm sorry, I'm an idiot with computers. I didn't know how to add The Return's response along with yours).

badhead
05-12-2010, 08:05 AM
I would say the whole Dogme 95 movment. the make such a big deal out of the fact that they are not being pretenious. But they are more pretentious with their rules (which they break themselfes when they feel it adds to the vision)