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The Demeter
08-17-2006, 12:30 PM
Maybe I have misinterpreted what Goth was supposed to mean. I was always under the impression that the title of 'Goth' was reserved for an intelligent, intellectual, a person with a strong literary background who could carry on an intelligent conversation. A person who dressed with class, maybe dark colors, but more a dark chic.
Now I see 'Goth' being defined as a bunch of rebellious punks who don't really know anything about much of anything. H.P. who? Bella what? Rather than speaking intelligently they spout vulgarity and pretend that no one understands them and they are really dark complex people, when in fact they are just whiney teenagers like all the others. I see Gothic style being used as an excuse to dress like a slut. What happened to class?
Does anyone else feel this way?

Miss Olivia
08-17-2006, 01:37 PM
It grew into a fad. "Goth" style became the McDonald's of teenage rebellion.
You want to bug your parents? Paint your nails black and listen to NIN.
That's the way it is out here, anyway. And I would like to state again that I am not encompassing ALL people who dress like this in my statements.
Only most of them.;)

urgeok
08-17-2006, 01:54 PM
apparently goth isnt anything to do with the people who dress goth, go to goth clubs or listen primarily to goth music.




:cool:



it seems to me that there are 3 types of 'goths'

1) pop culture goths .. they like the 'look' and the music (for whatever fucking reason) but they arent contemplating the hopelessness/helplessness of life 24/7 and although they think on the surface it would be cool to be a vampire - they have no real desire to be one.

2) the 'classic' goth. (various degress of commitment) they want to think they are vampires. they think death = beauty etc .. that whole, "poor little dark haired girl with a dead black rose woe is me the world is pain i should just die" thing.
Sorry kids - but the music is the silliest shit i've ever heard ... so overblown and dramatic .. subtle as a flying mallet.

3) faux goths.. play goths who like to dye their hair black, put on black lipstick, and then run around saying 'look at me, i'm a goth'

we've had this long running discussion in the general forum before ... some people get upset, some get defensive .. (especially in a horror forum which attracts 'goths' like moths to a flame) and all i can say is that if it looks like a rose, smells like a rose, feels like a rose ... its probably a rose.

(sorry - black rose)


edit to add ..


mostly its a way to get noticed and enjoy the thrill of other (people looking at them and saying/thinking 'oh look at the weirdos' which is like gold to these guys.

i'll have to admit - i mostly laugh.


that being said - some people can pull it off - the look .. . but the lifestyle - please ...

The STE
08-17-2006, 02:06 PM
fake goth chicks put out like there's no tomorrow, real goth chicks are too mopey and depressed to put out at all

Roderick Usher
08-17-2006, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by The Demeter
I was always under the impression that the title of 'Goth' was reserved for an intelligent, intellectual, a person with a strong literary background who could carry on an intelligent conversation.

What you described is someone who doesn't need to hang a label on him/herself.

Labels are for weak-willed lemmings. You don't need 'em Demeter.

The STE
08-17-2006, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by The Demeter
I was always under the impression that the title of 'Goth' was reserved for an intelligent, intellectual, a person with a strong literary background who could carry on an intelligent conversation.

You're thinking of Asian people

The Mothman
08-17-2006, 02:45 PM
why is this in upcoming horror movies?

The STE
08-17-2006, 02:46 PM
because Demeter beats children

urgeok
08-17-2006, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by Roderick Usher
What you described is someone who doesn't need to hang a label on him/herself.

Labels are for weak-willed lemmings. You don't need 'em Demeter.


how do you feel about the people who label themselves ?

azathoth777
08-17-2006, 05:47 PM
Goth , not goth, how cares. Personaly I hate it when people call me 'goth'. Yes, I dress mostly in black and like Sisters Of Mercy and Christian Death. Big deal, I'm much more then the clothes I wear and the music I listen to. Labels are terrible because the just pigeonhole you into a certain style or such, and everyone thinks they know all about you because of that label.

halloweenfreak1
08-17-2006, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by azathoth777
Goth , not goth, how cares. Personaly I hate it when people call me 'goth'. Yes, I dress mostly in black and like Sisters Of Mercy and Christian Death. Big deal, I'm much more then the clothes I wear and the music I listen to. Labels are terrible because the just pigeonhole you into a certain style or such, and everyone thinks they know all about you because of that label.

i think the music sucks and the cloths are terrible looking , but like you said that does not give people the right to put a lable on you just because you look the type.

Roderick Usher
08-17-2006, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by urgeok
how do you feel about the people who label themselves ?

Someone want to label others or me? Fine, go ahead, totally your perogative. Where would dirty jokes be without labeling people into easily definable groups. I do it all the time. Love a good, offensive, nasty, racist joke.

But labeling yourself just seems like a desperate act; like you know yourself just well enough to drop the whole of you into a category.

Go ahead, limit yourself. Makes it easier for others to pick on you.

and to STE - the Asians really are better at math than literature - that and playing the violin - and the ole chop-sockey

XtRaVa
08-18-2006, 05:41 AM
What is Goth?? Erm...lemme think. I know what it isnt if that helps? It's NOT an upcoming horror movie :P

The Demeter
08-18-2006, 07:17 AM
First of all, you cant escape a label. Don't dress and act like a monkey unless you want to be called one.
Second, STE, Real goth girls do put out, just not to every guy.
Third, if you dont like the post in this topic, I apologize, but I have seen other posts that do not fit as well.
Fourth, I feel as though everyone here got the impression that I am goth. Not true, you couldnt pick me out of a crowd for liking for horror movies and listening to Sister of Mercy or whatever, because I understand what the modern perception of goth is and wish to avoid the association. My adivice the everyone else is if you want to avoid the role, dont audition.

urgeok
08-18-2006, 07:34 AM
Originally posted by The Demeter
First of all, you cant escape a label. Don't dress and act like a monkey unless you want to be called one.


thats the exact thing i was going to say ..

a lot of people actively - conciously - seek out that label. they want to be associated with what it represents.

it goes for rockers/rude boys/hippies/70's metal rockers/soccer moms/yuppies/preppies/punks/rastas/ravers/

fuck the list is endless.
'sure some people pick and choose from the music/fashion/venacular that defines these factions of pop culture (THE LABEL) but if anyone thinks for one second that the majority of people DONT want to be associated with what the uniform they wear represents then you're fucking brain-addled.

kids have always gravitated towards things that will give them an identity - peers - commonality.

the ones that puzzle me are the ones who take great lengths to look a certain way .. and then say .. 'pardon me - i'm not a _____'

ok ... maybe you arent - whatever - you sure want to look like one. So does that make you a fake one ?

personally i never found a niche that called to me .. i listen to absolutely everything ... i never used the popular 'slang of the day' ... i dress the way i did when i was 5 years old (tshirt - jeans - sneakers)

my criteria is that they fit .. and darker colours - because they are slimming.

i'm too far down to earth to invest any time in trying to be a member of a fringe group .. unless there is an identifiable fringe group made of people who ignore trends as frivilous and unworthy of the money/energy/dedication it takes to maintain the facade.

in short - i couldnt be arsed.

but i think its healthy for kids to experiment if they want .. its part of the growth process ... adults doing it ... hmmm .. well ... to each their own i guess.

i've always believed that you build character from the inside. trying to do it from the outside is a pretty sad substitute.

XtRaVa
08-18-2006, 08:21 AM
What annoys me is when someone is a goth, or a grunger or emo and they say they are like that because they want to be individual. They even go as far to say phrases like "You laugh at me because I'm different, I laugh at you because you're all the same".

They are so hipocritical, how are they individual and different, when they all dress the same and look the same?! Goths etc look the least individual than ANYONE else.

If they know that they arent individual for being in a group then fair enough, but when they act like they are individual and the rest of the world isnt, then they must seriously be lacking some brains.

I dont belong to any group, because I dont feel I can be pigeon holed as I really am individual, and my own person.

(Of course no offense to anyone, I have nothing against goths or anyone else for that matter. :))

The Demeter
08-18-2006, 09:03 AM
Thank you for understaning my point about perpetuating stereotypes, and the lame excuses for doing it.

azathoth777
08-18-2006, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by The Demeter
First of all, you cant escape a label. Don't dress and act like a monkey unless you want to be called one.
Second, STE, Real goth girls do put out, just not to every guy.
Third, if you dont like the post in this topic, I apologize, but I have seen other posts that do not fit as well.
Fourth, I feel as though everyone here got the impression that I am goth. Not true, you couldnt pick me out of a crowd for liking for horror movies and listening to Sister of Mercy or whatever, because I understand what the modern perception of goth is and wish to avoid the association. My adivice the everyone else is if you want to avoid the role, dont audition.

So I should change the way I dress and the music I like so I can avoid being labeled? That's a bunch of shit. Perhaps others should not be so quite to judge people by looks. I don't 'audition' for a role, and am not a monkey. I like what I like and will not change that for anyone, and if you do that's sad.
And if you're not goth, why do you even care?

XtRaVa
08-18-2006, 07:01 PM
I think this thread should end. It's only going to cause arguments :(

I for one don't have anything against anyone, goth or not (well maybe chavs :P). I think having lots of different types of people is what makes a society, and when we all learn to accept everyone for who they are the better.

I really dont see any need to discuss this any further, like I said it can just cause arguments, or cause people to get offended....which is definately not what we are here to do. We are a community who like horror movies, and as long as we dont for instance; murder people...who cares how we look/dress and what music we listen to? :P

The Flayed One
08-18-2006, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by urgeok
it goes for rockers/rude boys/hippies/70's metal rockers/soccer moms/yuppies/preppies/punks/rastas/ravers/


You forgot perverted old men,

urgeok
08-19-2006, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by The Flayed One
You forgot perverted old men,

what do they dress like ? raincoats ?

urgeok
08-19-2006, 08:21 AM
Originally posted by XtRaVa
I think this thread should end. It's only going to cause arguments :(

I for one don't have anything against anyone, goth or not (well maybe chavs :P). I think having lots of different types of people is what makes a society, and when we all learn to accept everyone for who they are the better.

I really dont see any need to discuss this any further, like I said it can just cause arguments, or cause people to get offended....which is definately not what we are here to do. We are a community who like horror movies, and as long as we dont for instance; murder people...who cares how we look/dress and what music we listen to? :P

this is a forum ..
in a forum people discuss ideas, points of view.

not accepting people was never an issue .. just observations.


and the people who get upset ...
why is that ..? no one has bashed anyone personally ..


some kid laughing at me for driving a family van wont upset me in the least..

if you're secure in what you do - no worries ..who cares .. nothing to get upset about.

XtRaVa
08-19-2006, 09:23 AM
I know, I know. I'm just saying that many a time I've seen threads go nasty, and don't want them to :D

The Demeter
08-21-2006, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by azathoth777
So I should change the way I dress and the music I like so I can avoid being labeled? That's a bunch of shit. Perhaps others should not be so quite to judge people by looks. I don't 'audition' for a role, and am not a monkey. I like what I like and will not change that for anyone, and if you do that's sad.
And if you're not goth, why do you even care?

I care because I'm a hell of a lot closer to being a real goth than half of the skimpy dressed freaks out there who have never even read a real horror story of know anything about the real goth culture at all. Because its gotten a reputation as being abunch of "misunderstood" idiots dressed up like vampires. Thats why I care.

urgeok
08-21-2006, 06:52 AM
so what is the real goth culture .. what do you define 'a goth' as ?

Vodstok
08-21-2006, 07:14 AM
Ostergoth, Visigoth?

Man, those barbarian hordes are making a comeback.

I liek the Mongol look smyself, but thats me. Big fan of fur boots.

tarcher80
08-21-2006, 08:48 AM
like w/ every attitude, cultural fad, way of life, constitution, whatever, there are the posers and the ones that keep it real. i personally do not follow any one lifestyle, religion, attitude, trend. i like to keep an open mind and let my spirit lead the way.

urgeok
08-21-2006, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by tarcher80
like w/ every attitude, cultural fad, way of life, constitution, whatever, there are the posers and the ones that keep it real.


see, i dont know whats weirder ..

the people who 'keep it real' or the posers.

i'm not just talking about goth - but any pop culture niche group.

when i say weirder - i mean weirder to me - because i never got the whole 'i wanna be identified as a.....' deal.
I still maintain that if you're a kid and want to experiment and dress up and be a this or that - go for it..

The Demeter
08-21-2006, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by urgeok
so what is the real goth culture .. what do you define 'a goth' as ?

Read the begining of this thread.

ItsAlive75
08-21-2006, 12:06 PM
Well, I always saw the goth stereotype as a group of teens and preteens who are usually unhappy with their family or social situation, and instead of trying to find a way to break themselves out of their depression they choose a lifestyle that lets them wallow in it. Obviously, it's easier to accept depression and build yourself around that than to be proactive and improve yourself. So they wear black clothes and listen to music about death and are usually pretty nasty to anyone who is (or at least seems to be) happy with themselves. Once again, this is just my interpretation of the stereotype.

As for all cultural groups, it's just an easier way for everyone to make outside impressions on others without having to actually talk to him or her. It's like a TV guide; you don't need to watch the show to know what it's about, you have a quick summary of it and a label of what kind of show it is (drama, comedy, etc.)

urgeok
08-21-2006, 12:17 PM
"intelligent, intellectual, a person with a strong literary background who could carry on an intelligent conversation. A person who dressed with class, maybe dark colors, but more a dark chic."


1st time i've heard it described as such ..

goth is short for gothic is it not ?

the clothing styles reflect that (for the wealthier hardcore folk)
but these are usually reserved for clubbing (people of age)

otherwise it's kids at the local mall.

goth music - the bulk of it - is pretty identifiable by the subject material (gloom and doom - in epic proportions) as well as the heavy operatic sound.

i dont know anyone who calls themselves a goth that fits your description ...

well, i do - except for the dress with class part :D

ItsAlive75
08-21-2006, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by urgeok
except for the dress with class part :D

Yeah, black denom with gigantic chains is really classy.

urgeok
08-21-2006, 06:11 PM
not me !

blue jeans, running shoes - tshirt

no jewelry at all either ..
not even a wedding ring .. since i jammed my finger blocking a volleyball and my knuckle never went back to normal size ..

ItsAlive75
08-21-2006, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by urgeok
not even a wedding ring .. since i jammed my finger blocking a volleyball and my knuckle never went back to normal size ..

Still goin' strong on the volleyball, eh?

Yeah, I'm good with my clothes, too... I used to be really trendy and preppy when I was in college, now I just wear my work shirts and jeans. My "cultural group" is defined as "poor" I guess.

azathoth777
08-21-2006, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by The Demeter
Maybe I have misinterpreted what Goth was supposed to mean. I was always under the impression that the title of 'Goth' was reserved for an intelligent, intellectual, a person with a strong literary background who could carry on an intelligent conversation. A person who dressed with class, maybe dark colors, but more a dark chic.
Do you actualy know anything about the history of 'goth'? I'd saw not. 'Goth' grew out of the punk movement in the early '80s, and was defined by it's style and the music. "...an intelligent, intellectual, a person with a strong literary background who could carry on an intelligent conversation." These things had nothing to do with it. That can be an element of it, but just like anywhere else there are people dump as posts involved that you can't avoided.
Where do you get your definition from?

bloodrayne
08-22-2006, 04:04 AM
Originally posted by urgeok

mostly its a way to get noticed and enjoy the thrill of other (people looking at them and saying/thinking 'oh look at the weirdos' which is like gold to these guys.

Don't you mean 'silver'?...Gold is gaudy :p

I, personally, don't draw any attention to myself, I prefer it that way...I'd much rather 'hang out in the shadows' :cool:


As for the original question (the title of this thread)...I still haven't been able to answer that question, or have it answered satisfactorily (to a point that it makes any sense)...People have called ME 'Goth', to which I ask "What does Goth mean?"...The definition that they struggle to give, does not fit me...Thereby proving them wrong...Or misinformed...

I think that people just feel more comfortable being able to put everything into a neat little box, that's why they feel they must label everything...

If I have to be labeled, I believe that more than anything else, I'm a mom (the most important job in the world) and a 'horrorfreak'...I live, eat, and breathe this stuff...That's about it

But...What does it matter anyway?


To each his own

urgeok
08-22-2006, 06:23 AM
Originally posted by bloodrayne

I think that people just feel more comfortable being able to put everything into a neat little box, that's why they feel they must label everything...




thats a huge cop-out ..

for every person who feels the need to 'put things in boxes' there are 100 people who label the boxes themselves then jump right in.

you cant possibly ignore the fact that many many many people want the label of 'insert pop culture identity here'

The Demeter
08-22-2006, 08:06 AM
Originally posted by azathoth777
Do you actualy know anything about the history of 'goth'? I'd saw not. 'Goth' grew out of the punk movement in the early '80s, and was defined by it's style and the music. "...an intelligent, intellectual, a person with a strong literary background who could carry on an intelligent conversation." These things had nothing to do with it. That can be an element of it, but just like anywhere else there are people dump as posts involved that you can't avoided.
Where do you get your definition from?

No, the Goth movement was not formed in the early '80s as a result of punk music. Thats when Goth became commercialized and turned into what it is now. A bunch of Punks. The earliest form of Goth in American culture dates back to the late 1800's and really took off in the roaring 20's. That is when it was designated a style trend. A trend that varies in everyway imaginable from what it is today. You are terribly misinformed.

urgeok
08-22-2006, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by The Demeter
The earliest form of Goth in American culture dates back to the late 1800's and really took off in the roaring 20's. That is when it was designated a style trend. A trend that varies in everyway imaginable from what it is today.


was goth the name used then ?

Vodstok
08-22-2006, 09:41 AM
I thought "Goth" was the sound the bathtub made when you pulled out the plug....

Miss Olivia
08-22-2006, 10:26 AM
It's also the sound my cat makes when she gets a hairball.

The Demeter
08-22-2006, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by urgeok
was goth the name used then ?

Yes. It was all inspired by the Visigoth architecture. In the 20's it was very apperent in the cinema.

urgeok
08-22-2006, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by The Demeter
Yes. It was all inspired by the Visigoth architecture. In the 20's it was very apperent in the cinema.


i'm really confused now - after looking up Visigoth and visigoth architecture ..

i dont understand how this became whatever goth is today ..
or how an ancient peoples architecture inspired a fashion/intellectual style as how you defined it.

i guess i'll have to do more reading.

The Demeter
08-22-2006, 02:52 PM
The archetecture inspired the style. Just like how you have Modern architecture and Modern style of dress. The Goth to it farther and created an actual image. Think Edgar Allen Poe, H.P. Lovecraft. Think old cinema like Nosferatu, Pandoras Box, Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, ect. They all have gothic elements.
It became a diluted mainstream thing in the 80's, but it definetly existed long before then.

azathoth777
08-22-2006, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by The Demeter
The archetecture inspired the style. Just like how you have Modern architecture and Modern style of dress. The Goth to it farther and created an actual image. Think Edgar Allen Poe, H.P. Lovecraft. Think old cinema like Nosferatu, Pandoras Box, Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, ect. They all have gothic elements.
It became a diluted mainstream thing in the 80's, but it definetly existed long before then.

But they're not the same thing. They're two completely different styles, movement, what ever you want to call it. The name and some of the imagery was co-oped, but that doesn't make them the same thing.

The Demeter
08-23-2006, 06:46 AM
Originally posted by azathoth777
But they're not the same thing. They're two completely different styles, movement, what ever you want to call it. The name and some of the imagery was co-oped, but that doesn't make them the same thing.

I do not think that they are completely different. Lets take the Grunge movement in the 90's, everyone here should still be able to remember that. Credited for starting it, Kurt Cobain. Now lets say that 10 years from now, Britiney Spears starts dressing grunge, still does the same crappy pop music, but dresses grunges and adopts the attitude. Would you say that A) The new "Grunge music" is a diluted, commercialized, pathetic attempt at a retro revival that is an insult to the actual roots of grunge, or B) A totally different, new, thing that borrowed a bit.
The only difference is that no one who was a part of the original American Goth movement is still alive to point this out to us.

urgeok
08-23-2006, 07:39 AM
Originally posted by The Demeter
Now lets say that 10 years from now, Britiney Spears starts dressing grunge, still does the same crappy pop music, but dresses grunges and adopts the attitude. Would you say that A) The new "Grunge music" is a diluted, commercialized, pathetic attempt at a retro revival that is an insult to the actual roots of grunge, or B) A totally different, new, thing that borrowed a bit.



i'd say C) she's trying to look grundge but she's still singing 'lowest common demominator pop'

i think that you can look a thing or you can be a thing ..

to look a thing, you just adapt the dress code.

to be a thing you embrace everything that goes with it .. music, clubs, attitude ..


whatever goth was - its a long time ago and it has become something completely different and identifiable by the music style, the fashion, the attitude ... the lifestyle.


the only real influence is all things dark and depressing.

You know you're a goth when :


1) you and your friends feel the need to dress up in your goth clothes and take pictures in the cemetary.

2) it's 99 degrees out and you're in 4 layers of black garments

3) you think it would be cool to be a vampire.

4) every night in your favorite club would be a halloween party anywhere else

5) you take photos of yourself made to look like you're dead in the bathtub

any combination of the above will qualify ..


seriously - there may have been another type of goth before - but this is undeniably what it has become now ..

tarcher80
08-23-2006, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by urgeok
seriously - there may have been another type of goth before - but this is undeniably what it has become now ..

right on, i concur...

The Demeter
08-23-2006, 12:50 PM
"seriously - there may have been another type of goth before - but this is undeniably what it has become now .."



That is the point I have been trying to make all along. That goth is not what it used to be. That it was changed, it regressed, its a knock-off of a quality product.
Think about how when you here someone talking about how awesome "The Fog" is and they go on and on, you try to say something to them about it and they're like "what"? Then you realize they saw the remake, the horribly diluted, unrecognizable remake, and are completely unaware that John Carpenter made an original. From that generation on, when most people refer to "The Fog" it will be the crappy remake instead of the original. And something that was great will, yet agian, be lost, thanks to crappy knock-offs.

ItsAlive75
08-23-2006, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by The Demeter
Think about how when you here someone talking about how awesome "The Fog" is and they go on and on, you try to say something to them about it and they're like "what"? Then you realize they saw the remake, the horribly diluted, unrecognizable remake, and are completely unaware that John Carpenter made an original. From that generation on, when most people refer to "The Fog" it will be the crappy remake instead of the original. And something that was great will, yet agian, be lost, thanks to crappy knock-offs.

You're comparing goth kids to people with bad taste in movies?:D

azathoth777
08-23-2006, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by The Demeter
I do not think that they are completely different. Lets take the Grunge movement in the 90's, everyone here should still be able to remember that. Credited for starting it, Kurt Cobain. Now lets say that 10 years from now, Britiney Spears starts dressing grunge, still does the same crappy pop music, but dresses grunges and adopts the attitude. Would you say that A) The new "Grunge music" is a diluted, commercialized, pathetic attempt at a retro revival that is an insult to the actual roots of grunge, or B) A totally different, new, thing that borrowed a bit.
The only difference is that no one who was a part of the original American Goth movement is still alive to point this out to us.
Then it's a mote point. Why even make it?
I'm sure the 'goth' of the 1800's didn't appear out of nowhere, that it evolved and borrowed for something before it. Maybe some people then thought it was a cheap knock of whatever it might have been.
In the end, things change. For better or worse. That's life. Static things grow stall and die. Bitching and moaning about it won't change this.
Perhaps you should accept this and live in the now and not 80 - 200 years ago.

The Demeter
08-24-2006, 06:53 AM
Originally posted by ItsAlive75
You're comparing goth kids to people with bad taste in movies?:D

No. I'm comparing two things that used to be something else, but if the majority of people here seem to really enjoy the knock offs, then go right ahead, just as long as you dont think that they are original.
I'm not "bitching and moaning". I think that I just offend all the people here in which the point hit to close to home. I'm sorry to have burst your bubble. Your in no way orignial.
The only point that I was trying to make is that I'm sick of knock-offs, in whatever forms they take. You dont have to agree with me, but atleast give me decent feedback, or stop posting on this thread.

Phalanx
08-24-2006, 07:14 AM
No, you stop posting on my thread!

azathoth777
08-24-2006, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by The Demeter
No. I'm comparing two things that used to be something else, but if the majority of people here seem to really enjoy the knock offs, then go right ahead, just as long as you dont think that they are original.
I'm not "bitching and moaning". I think that I just offend all the people here in which the point hit to close to home. I'm sorry to have burst your bubble. Your in no way orignial.
The only point that I was trying to make is that I'm sick of knock-offs, in whatever forms they take. You dont have to agree with me, but atleast give me decent feedback, or stop posting on this thread.
And you are original? I've heard these kind of arguements before. Some people just can move with the times. All thing come out of something else. Almost nothing springs up from nothing, even your 1800's 'goth' had influences.
And you didn't burst my bubble, and I'm certainly not offened. It takes more then you to offend me. I don't like associating myself with the scene, but I accept it for what it is.
I never claimed to be original, just that I dress like I do and listen to the music I do because I genuinely like it, with is more then I can say for some people.
I'm sorry if my posts aren't up to your lofty standands, but I'll damn well post where ever I want.

The Demeter
08-24-2006, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by azathoth777
And you are original? I've heard these kind of arguements before. Some people just can move with the times. All thing come out of something else. Almost nothing springs up from nothing, even your 1800's 'goth' had influences.
And you didn't burst my bubble, and I'm certainly not offened. It takes more then you to offend me. I don't like associating myself with the scene, but I accept it for what it is.
I never claimed to be original, just that I dress like I do and listen to the music I do because I genuinely like it, with is more then I can say for some people.
I'm sorry if my posts aren't up to your lofty standands, but I'll damn well post where ever I want.


One final question, regardless or the"times" or "having to change with time", which I agree with, but do you think that modern goth is better?

azathoth777
08-24-2006, 04:34 PM
I don't think one is better then the other, just different. Things don't always have to be better or worse.

The Demeter
08-25-2006, 06:51 AM
Originally posted by azathoth777
I don't think one is better then the other, just different. Things don't always have to be better or worse.

I find it kinda disturbing that you cant take a stand on it. Do you generally go with the flow on things, or are there somethings that you do feel strongly about? I'm not trying to be rude, I've just met very few people to feel that way about things.

urgeok
08-25-2006, 07:09 AM
is this kind of thing really worth taking a stand on ?

i can think of better things to focus that kind of energy on other than a fashion sensibility.

azathoth777
08-25-2006, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by urgeok
is this kind of thing really worth taking a stand on ?

i can think of better things to focus that kind of energy on other than a fashion sensibility.

Exactly.
And I do have very strong feeling on many thing, and take a stand or side on things I feel are important. This is not one of those things for me, but obviously it is for you. I just doesn't matter enough to me, so I don't sit around measuring the pros and cons of the two 'goths'.

urgeok
08-25-2006, 08:23 AM
well, one look at me and its pretty obvious i've never given (male) fashion 10 seconds of thought.


always had a keen interest in what the ladies were wearing though :D

ItsAlive75
08-25-2006, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by urgeok
well, one look at me and its pretty obvious i've never given (male) fashion 10 seconds of thought.


It's true, all urge wears is a sailor hat and a fake mustache.:p

urgeok
08-25-2006, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by ItsAlive75
It's true, all urge wears is a sailor hat and a fake mustache.:p


dont be shy .. you can mention the leopard skin thong..

The STE
08-25-2006, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by ItsAlive75
It's true, all urge wears is a sailor hat and a fake mustache.:p

where on his body does he wear the fake mustache?

ItsAlive75
08-25-2006, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by The STE
where on his body does he wear the fake mustache?

Underneath his balls, he paints pupils on each nut. Cuz, come on... that's so fuckin' ungoth.

azathoth777
08-25-2006, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by ItsAlive75
Underneath his balls, he paints pupils on each nut. Cuz, come on... that's so fuckin' ungoth.
That depends, does he use eyeliner on them?

ItsAlive75
08-25-2006, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by azathoth777
That depends, does he use eyeliner on them?

Only cuz he hates his parents.

Sick_As_Fuck
08-25-2006, 11:24 PM
Why is this shit in the "upcoming horror MOVIES" section?

urgeok
08-26-2006, 03:18 AM
because it is

zwoti
08-26-2006, 03:38 AM
because general is filled to overflowing?

AUSTIN316426808
08-27-2006, 07:27 PM
Apparently they really really reeeeeeeeally want to be scary.:rolleyes:

The Demeter
08-28-2006, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by urgeok
is this kind of thing really worth taking a stand on ?

i can think of better things to focus that kind of energy on other than a fashion sensibility.

Everything is worth knowing where you stand on it.

Manic1511
09-05-2006, 09:09 PM
bah i just recently wrote a paper about this subject in my opinion there is no "goth" "punk" "jock" its all labels that society gives us the people who want to act on it then so be it..society created it society must break it?

urgeok
09-06-2006, 06:19 AM
Originally posted by Manic1511
bah i just recently wrote a paper about this subject in my opinion there is no "goth" "punk" "jock" its all labels that society gives us the people who want to act on it then so be it..society created it society must break it?

i hear the same arguement when it comes to music ...movies ..etc.

isnt Horror a label then ?

write a paper on what brought you to a HORROR web site instead of a movie web site.

Manic1511
09-06-2006, 10:18 PM
agreed.

Zero
09-12-2006, 05:15 PM
speaking of goth - and i have nothing against them - i saw one of my favorite sights today - it was a BEAUTIFUL sunny and crisp fall day and i was in the park with my dog and a goth walks by in his heavy leather black trenchcoat, dyed black hair, various other S&M Leather accoutrements - it just made me giggle

tarcher80
09-13-2006, 01:54 PM
this has nothing to do w/ the above arguement... these are just the random thoughts that bounce around in my head.

liz had a friend named cedric, whom she had a crush on. she would ask cedric out all the time, but he was too busy reading nieche and taking vows of silence. finally he came around and realized liz's feelings for him. he set a date and was to pick her up at 7pm. cedric started to get ready around 6pm, but to his dismay he had so many layers of clothes, accessories, and make-up to put on he didn't leave the house until 8:30pm. for liz this was the last straw, she hooked up w/ a dapper young chap named patrick (yours truly), while cedric sodomized himself w/ his dog collar in disgust. fin.

Miss Olivia
09-13-2006, 10:10 PM
Moral of the story: Dog collars don't belong up your butt.

Disease
09-14-2006, 11:16 AM
well, goth used to be about good music, drugs, clubs , dark clotheing, and great hair. But it has been consumed by the corparations a long time ago, so "Thanks for Nothing" Ministry!

urgeok
09-15-2006, 12:38 PM
well, acccording to some .. goth is now a depressed asshole of a kid who thought life was worthless so he shot up a Montreal college
campus killing 2 (including his asshole self) and serioulsly injuring several others (4 critically)

i know this isnt goth .. but its making the news - prepare for a goth backlash because people who dont like it or are afraid of it (god knows why) are going to paint everyone with the same brush on this one.

psycho_butthead
09-20-2006, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by The Demeter
Maybe I have misinterpreted what Goth was supposed to mean. I was always under the impression that the title of 'Goth' was reserved for an intelligent, intellectual, a person with a strong literary background who could carry on an intelligent conversation. A person who dressed with class, maybe dark colors, but more a dark chic.
Now I see 'Goth' being defined as a bunch of rebellious punks who don't really know anything about much of anything. H.P. who? Bella what? Rather than speaking intelligently they spout vulgarity and pretend that no one understands them and they are really dark complex people, when in fact they are just whiney teenagers like all the others. I see Gothic style being used as an excuse to dress like a slut. What happened to class?
Does anyone else feel this way? I agree with you completely.

The Demeter
09-21-2006, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by psycho_butthead
I agree with you completely.

Thank you.

VampiricClown
09-21-2006, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by urgeok
well, acccording to some .. goth is now a depressed asshole of a kid who thought life was worthless so he shot up a Montreal college
campus killing 2 (including his asshole self) and serioulsly injuring several others (4 critically)

i know this isnt goth .. but its making the news - prepare for a goth backlash because people who dont like it or are afraid of it (god knows why) are going to paint everyone with the same brush on this one.

Oh that's just fucking great!

Another reason for people to be scared of me!

THAT IS NOT GOTH! THAT IS FUCKING EMO!!!

GOTH POSER!:mad:

psycho_butthead
09-24-2006, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by The Demeter
Thank you. You're welcome.;)

Disease
09-27-2006, 09:33 PM
I don't know what it is anymore. It used to be about going to industrial clubs, wearing lipstick around your eyes, doing drugs, and getting drunk in the graveyard.

Disease
09-27-2006, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by The STE
fake goth chicks put out like there's no tomorrow, real goth chicks are too mopey and depressed to put out at all

Pleasure and happiness and enjoyement are frowned upon in the goth culture.