General Filmmaking Tips

[The_Return]

Ok, so I think Im gonna try to make a movie. I have an idea, and I have alot of friends that can act. Im trying to write the screenplay, and am saving money for a camera.

But I really dont know jackshit aout making movies. What kind of camera should I get? How long should my script be? What effects/editing programs should I have? And just any other general advice would be much apriciated [I just know that was spelled wrong]

[MisterSadistro]

Don't buy any camera you can't afford. If your film is going to put you in debt, it's a bad idea (and I'm speaking from experience on this). You can likely find a cheap video camera at a thrift store to get you started on your way. I'm dead serious. Why spend a bunch of loot on something if you don't know for sure you're going to want to continue with later ? There really is a lot of work involved. Most of your filming time is spent waiting around to film. Camera angles, lighting, sound all take time to setup. It gets very tedious very quickly (esp if your actors get fidgety and start thinking they could be doing something more interesting with their time than "wasting" it on you and your film.
A general rule of thumb on screenplays are one page= one minute of film time. I'd recommend trying something short and not too complicated to get your feet wet (again speaking from experience). You can always do bigger, better productions once you get a feel for it. Remember, more planning before is always better than not being prepared enough (you can add a fidgety crew to your fidgety actors at this point and you'll have a mutiny on your hands LOL). There's software available to help you map everything out for this. I'd say try it.
There are so many editing programs to choose from, I wouldn't know where to tell you to begin. I use a few for different things (esp fx). Download trial versions since I can't publicly condone downloading pirated software (<- hint, hint). It comes down to what you're most comfortable with in the long run. There is no definite answer for everyone.
Best advice I would offer is have a good time doing it and be sure everyone else involved does, too. Good luck !
CK

[g star]

in addition to what mr. s just said (all of which is right on) i'd strongly caution you not to set your goals too high at first. like mr. s said, get a cheap camera and shoot a few short movies first, just to see if you're actually into it. i made the mistake of thinking i was gonna make the next great slasher film on my first attempt and ended up with...... well, let's just say the results were..... well, let's just forget about it. it takes a lot of time, patience, practice, help and luck to make a quality film. believing your gonna nail it on the first try is about as likely as angelina jolie breaking down in front of your house and saying she'll bang you if you change her tire for her. wow, is it getting hot in here?

[MisterSadistro]

believing your gonna nail it on the first try is about as likely as angelina jolie breaking down in front of your house and saying she'll bang you if you change her tire for her. wow, is it getting hot in here?
I don't know. You stay in and figure it out. I'm going out to change that tire :D
CK

[AUSTIN316426808]

I suggest that instead of trying to make an entire film you should start off with a couple of shorts..maybe a half an hour. That way you script doesn't have to be that long and more importantly you wont have to take too much time setting stuff up which will cut down on boredom and bitchiness among the cast and crew.

You can see if you enjoy doing it and decide if you're any good at it without all the other hoopla. If you decide you enjoy it then you can start to increase the length little by little until you've gotten a good feel for the process and after alot of hard work and practice you might be a pretty good director. Good Luck!

[g star]

Originally posted by MisterSadistro
I don't know. You stay in and figure it out. I'm going out to change that tire :D
CK

have fun. hope you don't mind my sloppy seconds.

[MisterSadistro]

ahhhh, nothing says "sloppy" like Angelina LOL.
Did you make your film yet, Return ? I't been hours since we all gave you this great advice and we're still waiting.
CK (<-- now teaching the joys of having a producer hanging over Return's head)

[The_Return]

I likely wont get majorly started until Fall. I need to get some money, first of all, and flesh out my idea so it'll fill 15-20 minutes. Looking forward to it, though!

[MisterSadistro]

Looking forward to it, though!
Ditto. Give me a hollar if you need any help.
CK

[The STE]

this should go without saying, but always ALWAYS get people that you trust 100% to show up and not get all bitchy about doing a bunch of takes. And if there's someone you want to use, but you're not sure they'd be able to show up as much as you'd like, try shooting around it (like use coverage or something)

[MisterSadistro]

No quicker way to find out who your friends are than this test. Some twins I know ruined my first movie by deciding they didn't "feel like" finishing it. One only had to get shot up in slow motion for her final scene, which was useless since other one wouldn't even bother to answer phone on the one day I needed her most (I had an ex in from out of town who'd film all scenes of hers with me in a day). Needless to say I've never forgiven these hyenas for this and refuse to speak to either of them. They've left me with about 90% or so of the film to reshoot since they both need to be replaced in what is unuasble footage now. If you think I go nuts on a noob for spamming his film online, just bring this up to me in real life to see me really lose it :D
Advice: Big boobs (even on twins) does not equal talent or dependability.
CK

[HappyCamper]

Good tip from Mr. S!: Have your shots planned out!!

I just finished working on a film, where the director didn't have his shots planned out before filming, and it was a complete nightmare!

For each scene you should have at least the following shots:

Master Shot: a shot that establishes the actors, and their environment for the scene.

Medium shot: a tighter shot of the actors in the same position as the master shot.

# shot (replace # with number of actors in scene): this is basically a close up of the # of actors interacting with each other, the most common is a two shot.

Close Ups: you will need one of these for every actor in the scene, and they need to say everyone of their lines, even if you plan on cutting away from them during their dialogue.

these are just the basic shots, you MUST get on film!

there are others that are good to use such as:

Over the shoulder shots
Point of view shots
Aerial shots (above or below the camera)
Dolly shots


A good rule of thumb is get as much 'coverage' as you possibly can, it's always better to have more action on film, than you think you are going to use, it makes editing easier, and it's ALWAYS easier to cut footage away in editing than it is to have to ADD footage.

hope that was helpful, if I just confused you more, i'm sorry.

[HappyCamper]

I thought at first I'd mention the 180 rule, but I'm afraid I'd just really confuse the hell out of you...

[HappyCamper]

I thought at first I'd mention the 180 rule, but I'm afraid I'd just really confuse the hell out of you...

[MisterSadistro]

A good rule of thumb is get as much 'coverage' as you possibly can, it's always better to have more action on film, than you think you are going to use, it makes editing easier, and it's ALWAYS easier to cut footage away in editing than it is to have to ADD footage.
Amen to that. I never feel like I have enough footage when editing other people's films. I wonder how they think I'll suddenly come up with shots they never filmed or sent to me. I'm storyboarding my future short shoot to death at the moment.
CK

[MisterSadistro]

A good rule of thumb is get as much 'coverage' as you possibly can, it's always better to have more action on film, than you think you are going to use, it makes editing easier, and it's ALWAYS easier to cut footage away in editing than it is to have to ADD footage.
Amen to that. I never feel like I have enough footage when editing other people's films. I wonder how they think I'll suddenly come up with shots they never filmed or sent to me. I'm storyboarding my future short shoot to death at the moment. If I'm missing something later in editing, I'll have no one to blame but myself.
CK

[HappyCamper]

Mr. S. how would you explain the 180 rule? It's definitely an important concept to understand, even though it's difficult to grasp, i still get confused by it sometimes.

[MisterSadistro]

hmmmm Take a piece of paper. Write an 'A' and a 'B' anywhere on it. Draw a straight line connecting the two. If 'A' and 'B' were your actors, you'd be filming them from one side or the other of that line. Never cross that line after you start filming that scene for any reason or horrible things will happen to you and the actors :D Good enough ? LOL
CK

[HappyCamper]

sounds good to me, i believe the only exception to the 180 rule is a dolly move, but i could be wrong

[MisterSadistro]

The only exception to the dolly rule is inflamed genitals that lead to a horribly painful death.
ok. I made hat part up. The 180 rule was made since an audience apparently follows a conversation between two people if they continue to be seated on their original sides of a scene. I didn't come up with this myself and personally don't care for it (although I still abide by it). Make a great movie and no arthouse dipshit will bother with the 180 rule, Return.
CK

[knife_fight]

watch lots of episodes of "Home Movies" even though it is cancelled.

[MisterSadistro]

...and why was it cancelled ? The crew had inflamed genitals for constant disregard of the 180 rule. Filming could no longer continue. Or something like that....
CK

[The_Return]

Originally posted by knife_fight
watch lots of episodes of "Home Movies" even though it is cancelled.


I can still catach reruns...but I wont, cause I hate that show. Coach McGiurk [sp?] is the only decent part of that show...

[g star]

"home movies" rocks and the 180 rule is a myth (just like the non-existing swimming pool chemical that make your piss turn blue). next time you watch any movie, good or bad, pay attention for the 180. i garuantee they break the rule at least a dozen times. it's a filmmaking wives tale.

[knife_fight]

I like Home Movies (but it's def. not one of my favorites) b/c of all the movie references they use. that appeals to the elitist film snob in me. it's also funny b/c they do it like a bunch of 19 year old film students, but they're kids, so it kinda seems like they're making fun of that snide, jaded, arrogant, elitist, film-snob attitude that so many folks have.

[MisterSadistro]

"home movies" rocks and the 180 rule is a myth (just like the non-existing swimming pool chemical that make your piss turn blue). next time you watch any movie, good or bad, pay attention for the 180. i garuantee they break the rule at least a dozen times. it's a filmmaking wives tale.
Dammit, G Star, the 180 rule is the only thing that seperates us from the animals ! If you ignore it, then the film terrorists have already won :D
CK
Damn typos...

[g star]

Originally posted by MisterSadistro
Dammit, G Star, the 180 rule is the only thing that seperates us from the anilmals ! If you ignore it, then the film terrorists have already won :D
CK

okay, i agree with your A and B example. it is offsetting to an audience if character A is to the right of character B, then in the next shot character A is to the LEFT of character B. but how do you feel about having a shot of the back of A's head with B's face in the background, then cutting to the back of B's head with A's face in the background. it's a 180, but i certainly don't find it sinful. do you?

[MisterSadistro]

I actually know people who will strictly adhere to it and won't even consider breaking the rule. I'm aware of it, but in all seriousness don't abide by it as religiously. I'll purposely break it during an action scene just to keep the viewer as confused as the characters (like in a freaky dream sequence that I'm building the stupid coffin for- pain in the ass).
CK

[The_Return]

I just watched The Cabinet of Dr Caligari, and got a crazy brain blast. Im gonna make a silent film, Black/White, of course. It'd be alot easier...instead of having to screw aroundd with sound, Ill just need to add music. Which could become a problem. But Ill find a way, cause after thinking about it, my general idea would kill as a silent.

Damn, now Im excited:D

[MisterSadistro]

I like it already since I'm a sucker for black and white movies. Most of my first feature (if not all of it) will be in B/W. A fantastic horror author I met recently gave me a terrific review on my unfinished screenplay earlier today (who better to get an opinion from ?). My favorite quote was: "Really kinda pisses me off though. You are so damn good with music, you should SUCK at everything else! " :D Nicest thing anyone's ever said to me about either I think.
CK

[HappyCamper]

Originally posted by MisterSadistro
I like it already since I'm a sucker for black and white movies. Most of my first feature (if not all of it) will be in B/W. A fantastic horror author I met recently gave me a terrific review on my unfinished screenplay earlier today (who better to get an opinion from ?). My favorite quote was: "Really kinda pisses me off though. You are so damn good with music, you should SUCK at everything else! " :D Nicest thing anyone's ever said to me about either I think.
CK

MisterSadistro, it's funny you mentioned how others liked your screenplay. I recently had one of my friends read one of my horror scripts. After reading about the first five to six pages, he just stopped and started laughing..i asked him what was so funny...he just turned and said 'you sick fucking bastard!' i guess I should take that as a compliment?

[Little Angel]

Crossing the Line

Screen direction and "crossing the line" can cause huge amounts of confusion if not handled properly.

Crossing the line is a bit of a complicated issue, and it is a hard and fast rule, but one that is oddly flexible... because the unbreakable line can move, and move a lot.

The basic concept comes down to what it would be like if you were watching a conversation in person - say at a party. If two people are talking, you'd expect to be somewhere in between them, with one person on the left and the other on the right, so every shot on a character should be somewhere on "one side of the line". This can be a two shot with both people inside the frame, or on one character, whether it's a super close up, or a super wide, over the shoulder or what not. One of the basic ways to track this is simply "eye-line". If one character is looking to the left hand side of the shot, or "frame left" and is talking to another one who is looking "frame right", you just want to keep them looking off that side "until something changes". This can be a complete profile, or it could be that they are looking a half inch off the lens, but they should still maintain a consistent screen direction.

Where is gets complicated, is that this line - the one you are not supposed to cross - can shift. It shifts when actors move (blocking) or when the camera moves. Rarely do actors just square off and unload dialogue. So - every time the camera moves and the actors take a new position, a new line is drawn - that you are not supposed to cross.

Add to this, that often scenes have more than two people, which means that each pair of characters have their own line between each other, that must remain consistent as well.

BUT - to make it SIMPLE - [and you can do this when "blocking" a scene (deciding where the actors and the camera will be)]

Just think of your self as the camera and think of the cutting in real time while you are on set. At any given time *you* (the pov, the camera, the audience) will be in one relative space. Someone comes to the door and it's answered. You are standing there recording the even. You look at the Postman - to your right, and the Housewife - to your left. You keep them there as they chat at the door and then the Housewife invites the Postman in (ooh scary) and then as they move, you have to pick a new line as they move in. And you stay there until they settle. You can have multiple camera angles - but all from the same orientation. Until they reach the kitchen, where the Neighbor's Wife is sitting at a table with a cup of coffee. New lines are set up here.

To do this in 'real time'. Block the entire scene. All of the action. Rehearse it with the actors, but have the DP/CamOp watching. Then, once the *action* is blocked, walk it with the Camera in mind and pick your shots. They will naturally make sense. You are bringing yourself as the director through the scene in one natural pov, and you will bring your audience along as well, and this will naturally be along the same line - and you won't cross it.

But hey, it's a horror movie! Let's add in a roving POV. As the Mailman passes through the Living Room he looks at the mantle over the fireplace and sees melted red wax. You cut to his POV - and it has a line of it's own Directly from Him to the Object - the wax... And then you Crash cut to a roving POV over his shoulder watching him watch the wax... It has it's own line - and is a bit disturbing because if doesn't match that of the rest of the scene. You cut to another angle - along the line laid down by the roving POV, and you see a little boy watching from the top of the stairs! (ooh - scary) But when you return to the Housewife and the Postman, you need to return to that set of screen directions, consistent to when they arrived in the scene.

You can teleport, but you need to maintain your orientation....

Does this make any sense?

This also leads into subjects like "matching angles", "eyeline" and "matching frame" - all of which can and should be thrown out the window once you know what you're dealing with.

[EXTR3MIST]

And when you've mastered all this, be sure to make another fucking awful zombie film with shuffling/giggling "undead", lots of running about with capguns, and plenty of sickly homages to Romero and TCM.

It could be called: Zombie Gore Splash, or somesuch.


:p

[MisterSadistro]

It could be called: Zombie Gore Splash, or somesuch.
I've already called dibs on 'Something Something Of The Dead' myself. :D
CK

[Splotch]

Good thread.

Write something less than 15 pages. Focus on setting, plot, two characters (maybe three), one or two locations and one big special effect that you know you can pull off. Make sure its the best you can write and has a Beginning, Middle and End. Start "In Media Res" or as far into the action as you can while still making sense.

Like was mentioned before, storyboard your shots. If you need to read up on this I suggest "Film Directing Shot by Shot" by Steven Katz. It explains all. (see amazon.com)

Once cast, spend 2 to 3x as much time in rehearsal as you would filming. Believe me, rehearsal is everything! Filmmaking is a team sport and you want to encourage your actors to explore their characters. They will be able to show you if something doesn't work. Be flexible, rewrite on the spot if necessary. Once the actors are happy (in the moment) you can start your camera blocking (checking your shots and camera motion through the lens) Your production time will become short and sweet, allowing for thoughtful adjustments. "Getting it in the can" will be a whole lot easier.

Most of all, have fun! If you're uptight and irritable, imagine what your crew must be feeling. (Don't worry, they'll let you know) Enjoy the process and start small. Hook up with your local college drama group or film club. You will be amazed at how many people will want to help any way they can.

If you want to read a sample of a **short** horror script, email me and I'll send you one to read.

[HappyCamper]

also another great hint, and this one is for you are writing your script, screenplay:

write in the genre you know best, your posting here, so obviously the genre you know best would be horror (duh)

also it's easier if you write what you know..ie: take characterisitcs from yourself and your friends and make a character out of them

just another 2C

[HappyCamper]

i'm also currently working on a zombie western, the title: 'The Dead and The Dead'

[Zero]

just a few small suggestions from experience:

don't forget the little details like continuity - its good to have some anal retentive friend who can be a script supervisor and keep scene continuity (a good polaroid was always helpful in snapping shots of scenery before a break in shooting - I guess a digital camera would work as well). Nothing screams amateur schlock like items jumping around a scene (or hair style changing) at each edit.

do lots of read-throughs and walk-throughs before even thinking about picking up the camera.

and, I think the most important thing in indie horror films, remember that sometimes less is more - especially in terms of SFX and "creatures" - a hint of a demonic figure is usually much more frightening than a full-on shot with zippers and duct tape showing!

[Urine Sane]

Here are a few good ways to become a good filmmaker/director/writer:

1.) Watch as many good movies/tv shows as possible, they will give you a better sense of what works well and what doesn't, watching low-budget crap won't get your standards higher.

2.) Write as much as you can! If you have an idea for a movie write it down, and work on it when you have time. Writing will help you visualize your movie, and the better you become at writing the better you become at seeing the movie you want.

3.) Read! The more you read the better your vocabulary becomes, and the better you can describe things in your script.

4.) Never stop learning, when you stop learning, you're in trouble. Being artistic isn't enough, you need to be technically sound as well as artistic.

5.) Write logically! The biggest problem in most movies (especially low-budget horror) is that things just don't make any sense, or happen for no reason at all. Think of what you would go pay to see and make sure that you make something you would be willing to spend your hard earned money to watch.

[Angelakillsluts]

Originally posted by EXTR3MIST


It could be called: Zombie Gore Splash, or somesuch.


:p

Hey, that's my movie. :mad:

as far as tips go, all I have is:

Use a tripod.

that's it, sorry i'm useless. :p Mister Sadistro knows a lot about this, so listen to him.


I will be checking this thread often.